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Post by greatcoastal on Oct 28, 2017 11:56:32 GMT -5
Valid. All valid. I have a lot of armor, but you've just exposed some serious chinks. I am sure this "I tried" argument in particular will be used against me. The "I tried" argument doesn't matter and doesn't hold water if by the time they finally tried "it was too late". If she tried to play that card, my response would be "Look we had a sexless, loveless marriage for X number of years, romantic love is like a plant if it's not tended to and nurtured it will perish and die and no amount of water or fertilizer will bring it back". Relationships are hard work even good ones and when the someone starts taking things for granted it just rots. All true. Just get ready for more manipulation. Not to late in their mind-and that's ALL THAT MATTERS TO THEM- the past is irrelevant when it's their fault. Selective memory springs into action. Well it's...CRAZY! That's what happens when dealing with crazy! Give them an inch and they will take your kidney! They live on a one way street paved with double standards. Your defense? Retreat, avoid, and document truth and facts.
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Post by greatcoastal on Oct 28, 2017 12:04:47 GMT -5
Valid. All valid. I have a lot of armor, but you've just exposed some serious chinks. I am sure this "I tried" argument in particular will be used against me. Used against you how? In the stage of social circles or public opinion? The courts could care less about that stuff. They care about the laws that govern the splitting of the assets and the guardianship of any minors. That's it! Nothing more. If there are no stipulations in your jurisdiction about "fault", then the only concern the courts are going to have about AP's revolve around the question, "Were a significant amount of assets used in the committing/maintenance of the affair?" Why would they care about "who tried what?" These are not criminal trials where they are trying to determine what somebody is guilty of. If I'm way off base, someone please correct me. Used against you if you are in a 2yr. or a 4 yr. plan of staying and tolerating such detrimental abusive behavior. Used against you during this period of trying to get along peacefully for the good of the children. Once in court not so much. Explaining to your attorney that you are dealing with a narc or a manipulative controller? That helps in what to expect and how to use it to your advantage. That's becoming my experience. They say the courts are changing....slowly. Not every case is cut and dry.
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Post by bballgirl on Oct 28, 2017 12:15:00 GMT -5
The "I tried" argument doesn't matter and doesn't hold water if by the time they finally tried "it was too late". If she tried to play that card, my response would be "Look we had a sexless, loveless marriage for X number of years, romantic love is like a plant if it's not tended to and nurtured it will perish and die and no amount of water or fertilizer will bring it back". Relationships are hard work even good ones and when the someone starts taking things for granted it just rots. All true. Just get ready for more manipulation. Not to late in there mind-and that's ALL THAT MATTERS TO THEM- the past is irrelevant when it's their fault. Selective memory springs into action. Well it's...CRAZY! That's what happens when dealing with crazy! Give them an inch and they will take your kidney! They live on a one way street paved with double standards. Your defense? Rereat, avoid, and document truth and facts. That is a very typical response but once the divorce is announced, the "I tried" holds no water and their gig is up. Their manipulation is done, the two parties can agree to disagree and part ways.
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Post by brian on Oct 28, 2017 12:15:12 GMT -5
Used against you how? In the stage of social circles or public opinion? The courts could care less about that stuff. They care about the laws that govern the splitting of the assets and the guardianship of any minors. That's it! Nothing more. If there are no stipulations in your jurisdiction about "fault", then the only concern the courts are going to have about AP's revolve around the question, "Were a significant amount of assets used in the committing/maintenance of the affair?" Why would they care about "who tried what?" These are not criminal trials where they are trying to determine what somebody is guilty of. If I'm way off base, someone please correct me. Used against you if you are in a 2yr. or a 4 yr. plan of staying and tolerating such detrimental abusive behavior. Used against you during this period of trying to get along peacefully for the good of the children. Once in court not so much. Explaining to your attorney that you are dealing with a narc or a manipulative controller? That helps in what to expect and how to use it to your advantage. That's becoming my experience. They say the courts are changing....slowly. Not every case is cut and dry. Ah, yes... emotional manipulation. However, if you are "over" that and able to see through it, it no longer holds any power. I allow my roomie to believe that her attempts at "fixing" (read "resetting") things are working. All of her talk about how she is getting better, blah blah blah. When I want 2-3X/week, am willing to compromise to 1x/wk, can internally and emotionally handle once every other week, but then she wants "credit" for being better because it was 3 weeks in between our last 2 sessions and we are now at 2 weeks since then... I give her credit... it IS progress, but that progress isn't going to keep me around. Damn it... now I feel like I'm hijacking the discussion. This ain't about me. Sry. If you recognize the manipulation for what it is, it has no power. Of course, you have to be ready for the response of, "Now you just won't let me try," or "you have already given up." Ummm... yeah... that's pretty much it, because the relationship has died.
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Post by northstarmom on Oct 28, 2017 12:19:37 GMT -5
The bottom line is in many places if you want to end your marriage, the court lets you whether or not your spouse wants to remain married. You don’t need an excuse just courage to follow your desires.
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Post by greatcoastal on Oct 28, 2017 12:31:52 GMT -5
How do you stay?
You stay with the powerful knowledge that "there is no longer a smoldering ember, the fire died a long time ago"..
You stay with a new set of goals, geared towards self improvement and the good of the family( children, yourself,and -yes- even your spouse)
You stay with a flexible time line. One that bends for your benefit, as the good and the bad emerges from the divorce.
You stay by setting new boundaries, many that are long overdue. Boundaries for your own personal gain.
You stay by getting outside of your toxic environment and building up a support network.
You stay with a new mindset " This is for the short haul - a speedbumb in the road of life- I am in this for the longhaul of self improvement".
I could keep going..... feel free to add on!
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Post by DryCreek on Oct 28, 2017 12:51:25 GMT -5
hopingforachange, there's a difference between "staying and trying to make it work" vs "staying in spite of a decision to leave". The former requires trying to be at peace with the circumstances and find happiness in spite of the lack of intimacy. The latter I would struggle with, as it requires living a lie; but the alternative is being transparent with your plans, which is about as smart as pre-announcing invasion plans during a war. I'm of the mindset that if you're commited to divorce, then rip the Band-Aid off quickly and be done. Life is too precious to put it on hold for 3 years. On the practical side, delaying just digs your hole deeper financially in terms of longer spousal maintenance, creates opportunities for vengeful acts, and lots of runway for the deck to be stacked against you. Never mind your exposure to things like increased credit card debt, accidents, lawsuits, etc. for which you are equally responsible (and while the debts may be assigned 50:50, if her portion isn't paid, your credit will still take a hit). I totally get the desire to stay for the kids, and only you can weigh your priorities. On the whole subject of "blame", that's a social issue, not a legal one. There will be family and friends that ostracize you regardless. Even if you air all the dirty laundry, some will still believe her version of the story, so the truth isn't necessarily on your side.. It is possible (though not easy) to separate the process of divorce from living arrangements and parenting, if you're both committed to the plan.
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Post by greatcoastal on Oct 28, 2017 12:55:26 GMT -5
I don't want to get off topic, hope this is relevant. It's going to start raining here in about 4 hrs. Another tropical storm. The gutters need cleaning and Ii'll do some tree trimming. I go out to the garage to get the ladder. We have a recycle can. Someone placed a large cardboard box in it, taking up more than half off it filling it to the top. There's 4 more days till recycle day. Where a large family ,we have 2 cans. The other can is outside the house. The box could be cut or folded int smaller pieces. Someone did none of that. Knowing who's box it is, it was my wife or grandpa. Kind of like the whole SM/divorce thing. How much do you get taken advantage of? How much do you let bother you? Do you let it bother you? Is it a big deal? How long does it take to fix it? is it worth all the effort to find out,"who done it, and make someone fix it? A boundaries issue.
For me, I know who did it. Most likely my W. Like normal she is sitting on her ass in the back room. I'm not going to be around her to be picking up her slack in a few more months. Do I actually help her by bringing it back into the house and calmly, yet stearnly hold her accountible for her actions?
This is the same woman who told one of the female ambulance workers to " stand up for yourself to be treated equally just like all the rst of the guys". Sounds like a good time to level the playing field?
Then I cave and tell myself, " it's not worth it" divorce is around the corner, she will learn or not some day on her own". I'm going to move the box myself since I will be walking right by the trash can as I go to the yard.
In marriage you learn an attitude of" we are different, it's not a big deal, don't let the little things bother you, focus on the positive, for better or worse, etc... aaaalmost co-dependant." Then comes the day of look how different we treat each other, who does the giving and who does the taking! (it sure shows in household duties, especially the kitchen).
So everyday these things continue. They will most likely continue with the kids, that's different. That is more my responsibility, and they end up being receptive and appreciative. Yet the same with my controlling W?
It's one of the most difficult things for me without getting angry. I'll have such a burden lifted from me when we are apart.
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Post by workingonit on Oct 28, 2017 18:24:18 GMT -5
Ugh. All these posts are hitting home for me. After years of trying to get my h to work on our relationship I used the word divorce and he is suddenly willing to work. He is attentive and apologetic and reflecting on all the ways he has fucked up. He is willing to do counseling. But I am finding his efforts annoying and the thought of fucking him is about as appealing as fucking a brother.
I feel totally comparmentalized- part of me is here, doing counseling, talking for hours with him, etc. And part of me has decided it is way too late and I am mentally planning my exit.
Like you, ironhamster, I want to make it 4 more years for my kids. But living this dual reality sucks.
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Post by M2G on Oct 29, 2017 6:02:20 GMT -5
She has started putting out, again, and I get no enjoyment from it, in part because I know she does not either. Yes - I have come to love this forum an the people in it, because you guys GET IT. I don't want a partner who will (grudgingly) put out (I hate that phrase but here it works spot-on). I can get a blowup doll and get the same kind of enthusiasm. There is no connection, as you say, Ironhamster and all I can say is: "no connection, no erection." Yes true Northstarmom - also true what you said on another thread - my marriage is basically over. Now, I just live with a roommate who doesn't like it if I'm dating. Really, if one who has no "sexual stake" in the situation actively prevents happyness, well - who then is the one with a personality disorder? Yeah I took a brief stab at outsourcing. Went on a few sites, made a few profiles, then deleted everything because what I really want is a long term loving relationship. Seeking around is unfair to all parties involved (and puts me "in the wrong" in the process). My major issue is not kids but house. The house is under renovation that's been put into slow motion due health care costs. Basically I switched jobs, which netted me a fat check from former employer and lost all my assistance. So - selling the house NOW, is going to cost me tens of thousands. No can do. Right now waiting on Nov 1, when I can lock in a new (drastically lower cost) healthcare plan and set a timetable. The air is civil here, and friendly. No need to lose the equity. In fact, I suspect her of thinking the same thing. That used to really bother me - but now it totally works in my favor. Friends - LOL. They've all given up on us as my W doesn't ever want to leave the house, or have anyone come over. Also I don't give a damn what people think. For me, since my grandparents and sister passed, I don't give a flying rat's ass about any of them. Yup you hit the proverbial nail on the head. I haven't used the "D-word" yet and I don't plan to, because I'm not into coerced sex - - in fact, I woke up this morning, made my coffee, sat down to read the boards and somewhere along the way a thought popped into my mind: " I don't want to fuck her anymore." I have my clearest moments in the early AM..
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Post by northstarmom on Oct 29, 2017 7:15:24 GMT -5
“Friends - LOL. They've all given up on us as my W doesn't ever want to leave the house, or have anyone come over. “
Become responsible for maintaining and developing your own friendships. You do not have to do things as a couple. Invite friends to meet you for lunch or do things over the weekend. Take a class, go to meetups, join an athletic team without your wife. Even if you were happily married you wouldn’t have to do everything togetherX when people do that they can run out of things to say to each other.
I am in a good post sm relationship. My partner likes to sit home and watch tv weekday nights after working. He is an introvert, works in sales, and needs time after work without being around people that much (except for me) to recharge. I’m an extrovert in s horrible job and I need time bring around people in the evening to recharge.
Since the summer, I have been doing more things in the evening - a painting class, working out in a gym, toastmasters. He also participated in a theater group, one where years ago we met, but now I’m burned out on.
We both had interesting things again to share with each other.
If one is in a dysfunctional relation it is more vital to create and maintain your own friendships or else you may be left out in the cold with no social life or support system if you divorce.
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Post by M2G on Oct 29, 2017 8:24:06 GMT -5
My partner likes to sit home and watch tv weekday nights after working. He is an introvert, works in sales, and needs time after work without being around people that much (except for me) to recharge. There's another introvert working in sales? I'm really not alone! I've heard really good things about that group - think I will look into it. Thanks Northstarmom.
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Post by M2G on Oct 29, 2017 8:37:38 GMT -5
PS: I joined another board yesterday: myPTSD - there is nice section for people like me that were used as physical and emotional punching bags by their parents & siblings and other. Separate boards for separate issues as I don't think this is the best place, to go very deep into my other problem.
Also, activities: not very social but I finally took notice that a lot of my music touches on abusers/victims. Putting this stuff to YouTube video may do me some emotional good. 'Specially the one about my late step sister, and the way her father (my step father) drove her so hard that she has a heart attack while running a marathon, at age 21.
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Post by elkclan2 on Oct 29, 2017 8:41:24 GMT -5
Every single minute I stayed past the decision to leave was a fucking torture. You aren't doing your kids favours if you definitely decide you are going.
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Post by tirefire on Oct 29, 2017 18:17:39 GMT -5
bballgirl "Romantic love is like a plant" Adding this to my list of thoughts. Thank you.
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