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Post by sdiamond1026 on May 22, 2017 21:50:25 GMT -5
What is the definition of everyone of a sexless marriage. I've been with my wife for 25 yrs total, married almost 17. She has never been very sexual and I have been the one that initiates most of the time. For years I would ask and she would say no. Not always but it seemed to escalate and there were always excuses. It got to the point where I would ask and she would say no, I would get mad and she would say fine do it. Then say it was like I raped her because she didn't really want me to do it. Anyway, somehow I think we had sex 3-4 time a week early on and then it went to 1-2 times a week. I could probably do it every day but I knew she didn't want it that much. She complained that I asked too much and then had a 2 yr affair with her massage therapist once a month while I paid. Anyway, is a sexless marriage defined by lack of sex (time frame) or lack of loving/wanted sex. I don't consider my marriage sexless but I consider the sex crappy. She does it because I ask and pressure her (I suppose) and she gives in. She even still had sex 1-2 times a week during her affair. I think the affair somehow made a little more sexual towards me or she did it so I wouldn't think she was getting it somewhere else. Now she tells me she doesn't feel it for me sexually but is trying but has no sex drive. She says a big part of it is because she has PTSD from years of me asking and pressuring her for sex and her feeling used and like she had no control of her body. I told her i only wanted love and sex like any normal married man and wasn't trying to cause her to feel this way. So now, it's like she is punishing me although she says she isn't. She says I need to respect her feelings and back off and wait until she comes to me because she doesn't feel safe and has anxiety over years of feeling pressured by me and her just giving in. I never understood why she couldn't just be happy and do it to make me happy even if she wasn't always in the mood to. I guess she did sometimes but mostly she complained and argued about it and rejected me. So now I am supposed to not ask for it and wait for her to try and get over her PTSD over sex. I don't get how she can have PTSD about sex and then go meet some random guy for sex online and then have a 2 year affair with someone else. I don't know if there is truth to this or if she is just saying this as a way to further withhold sex from me and get the upper hand. She mentioned that now she is in control. I asked why there has to be control and why there couldn't be compromise. She says she needs space and needs to know that I will respect her and not pressure her anymore for sex.
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Post by northstarmom on May 22, 2017 22:06:34 GMT -5
The medical definition is 10 or fewer times a year. For me, others' definition of a sexless marriage doesn't matter. What matters is whether I'm getting the amount and quality of sex that allows me to be content in my relationship. I would not be happy in a relationship in which I had to pay, explain or beg to have sex like you have to. What makes me happy is what I now have -- a relationship with someone who loves making love to me just as I love making love to him and who thinks I'm sexy and desirable just as I think he is. I spent years in a SM. Even when we had sex, the sex was not passionate, and I didn't feel loved, appreciated or desired. I will never again settle for trying to force myself to be content with at best scraps from a partner who does not love me and desire me the way I experience love.
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Post by h on May 22, 2017 22:38:35 GMT -5
Stop initiating entirely. If she'll screw someone else and not you, she isn't worth fighting for.
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Post by lifeinwoodinville on May 22, 2017 22:46:37 GMT -5
What is the definition of everyone of a sexless marriage. I've been with my wife for 25 yrs total, married almost 17. She has never been very sexual and I have been the one that initiates most of the time. For years I would ask and she would say no. Not always but it seemed to escalate and there were always excuses. It got to the point where I would ask and she would say no, I would get mad and she would say fine do it. Then say it was like I raped her because she didn't really want me to do it. Anyway, somehow I think we had sex 3-4 time a week early on and then it went to 1-2 times a week. I could probably do it every day but I knew she didn't want it that much. She complained that I asked too much and then had a 2 yr affair with her massage therapist once a month while I paid. Anyway, is a sexless marriage defined by lack of sex (time frame) or lack of loving/wanted sex. I don't consider my marriage sexless but I consider the sex crappy. She does it because I ask and pressure her (I suppose) and she gives in. She even still had sex 1-2 times a week during her affair. I think the affair somehow made a little more sexual towards me or she did it so I wouldn't think she was getting it somewhere else. Now she tells me she doesn't feel it for me sexually but is trying but has no sex drive. She says a big part of it is because she has PTSD from years of me asking and pressuring her for sex and her feeling used and like she had no control of her body. I told her i only wanted love and sex like any normal married man and wasn't trying to cause her to feel this way. So now, it's like she is punishing me although she says she isn't. She says I need to respect her feelings and back off and wait until she comes to me because she doesn't feel safe and has anxiety over years of feeling pressured by me and her just giving in. I never understood why she couldn't just be happy and do it to make me happy even if she wasn't always in the mood to. I guess she did sometimes but mostly she complained and argued about it and rejected me. So now I am supposed to not ask for it and wait for her to try and get over her PTSD over sex. I don't get how she can have PTSD about sex and then go meet some random guy for sex online and then have a 2 year affair with someone else. I don't know if there is truth to this or if she is just saying this as a way to further withhold sex from me and get the upper hand. She mentioned that now she is in control. I asked why there has to be control and why there couldn't be compromise. She says she needs space and needs to know that I will respect her and not pressure her anymore for sex. Wow! I'm kind of at a loss for words. Wait, I found some. Why would you want to stay with this woman?
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Post by mrslowmaintenance on May 23, 2017 0:10:05 GMT -5
^yes! What Woodinville said! Seriously, two separate affairs but cannot stay interested in you? To me that has using you written all over it.
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Post by lwoetin on May 23, 2017 0:20:46 GMT -5
How much more time are you going to give her? It's been 25 yrs so far. To stay that long, she must be special. And you have a lot of patience. Coming up with how much more time depends on how special she is.
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Post by lyn on May 23, 2017 0:30:37 GMT -5
sdiamond1026Correct me if I'm wrong, but, I think you mentioned in another post your wife as BPD? And, apparently "PTSD" from you wanting sex with her? So you are responsible for her mental state because you've wanted sex with her? Your wife? Do you actually believe that you've caused this? Not to minimize her affliction or level of suffering, BUT, my dear, please, open your eyes. It seems you're married to a dominatrix, and not even the good kind. Whatever reasons you have for staying, please, start seriously considering your reasons for leaving. Save yourself before you vanish completely. I have a feeling you're pretty great - way too good for this. I feel for you, I really do.
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Post by McRoomMate on May 23, 2017 0:49:38 GMT -5
"Sexless Marriage" does NOT necessarily mean your W is averse to Sex in general but specifically that she is averse to having sex with you.
I am sorry but from what little facts in your post this situation seems really on the extreme side of hopelessness.
It is entirely NORMAL that H and W engage in sex with some frequency.
I guess we could agree on the "usual" like go to therapy and all that. Actually getting your relationship before a neutral third party therapist might be just the thing.
The writing seems to be on the wall but sometimes the most obvious things are hidden from us.
In any event, you are not alone and Welcome. Courage and blessings sent your way ! ! !
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Post by McRoomMate on May 23, 2017 1:01:19 GMT -5
Here are the usual options:
1) Stay and just accept it for what it is a long term SM with no change realistically in sight.
2) Cheat
3) Divorce / Leave
Try a "trial separation" but FIRST check with Lawyer on your options so you do not get in a vulnerable weak position in the event of subsequent divorce (e.g., "abandonment" "adultery" etc.).
"Zip Code" therapy can work wonders such as a trial separation. Maybe get legally separated first.
Exit plan - preparation - how to transition children if there are any etc.
Per the statistics most SM just stay that way.
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Post by baza on May 23, 2017 2:51:34 GMT -5
Marriages in this group are self described as basically dysfunctional situations that have been dysfunctional for quite a while with one of the spouses sufficiently pissed off about it to seek - and join - this group. Totally unsurprisingly, as a side bar, there is no sex, or minimal sex or unsatisfactory sex. And, given the dysfunctional nature of the marriages presented here, the fact that there is a paucity of sex ought come as no big surprise to anyone. In fact, if you think about it, a dysfunctional marriage is not an environment conducive to a robust sex life. Quite the reverse applies.
If you join here, it is a given that your sex life sucks. It is also the biggest symptom of the underlying dysfunctionality there is.
So, count your annual roots if you like, and chase that magical "11 roots per annum" which suppossedly propels you out of the danger area of "0 to 10 roots per annum". It will not make one bit of difference to the underlying dysfunctionality of your deal.
Most of the marriages here actually have fuck all to do with sex. Most of the marriages here attest to a basic incompatability between the spouses, and unsurprisingly, incompatable people don't fuck each other. Sex is the symptom, not the cause.
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Post by WindSister on May 23, 2017 10:21:40 GMT -5
You lost me at "she had sex with her massage therapist once a month while I paid for it." But yet denied you? Doesn't get much more clear than that in all honesty. Her actions speak loud and clear, but you seem to not be hearing the message. She is not that into you. Not sure why even SHE is choosing to stay married. Why are you? What are you getting out of this marriage?
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 11:47:06 GMT -5
1. Then say it was like I raped her because she didn't really want me to do it. 2. She complained that I asked too much and then had a 2 yr affair with her massage therapist once a month while I paid. 3. She says a big part of it is because she has PTSD from years of me asking and pressuring her for sex and her feeling used and like she had no control of her body. 4. She says I need to respect her feelings and back off and wait until she comes to me because she doesn't feel safe and has anxiety over years of feeling pressured by me and her just giving in. 5. I never understood why she couldn't just be happy and do it to make me happy even if she wasn't always in the mood to. 6. I don't get how she can have PTSD about sex and then go meet some random guy for sex online and then have a 2 year affair with someone else. 7. She mentioned that now she is in control. 8. She says she needs space and needs to know that I will respect her and not pressure her anymore for sex. First of all, welcome. I am so glad you found this place. I am so sorry for your situation. I can understand how frustrating this is. I have spotted some issues in your post that I would like to address, so I numbered them for easy reference. 1. Rape- This is total bullshit and a huge insult to every rape victim. I have prosecuted many rape cases, and I assure you that this in no way approaches rape. 2. The massage therapist affair - It is horrible enough to have an affair, but to have an affair with a service provider who her husband is paying is an insult to all wives. A loving wife would NEVER do this. 3. PTSD - Again, this is total bullshit. Asking for sex is not a cause of PTSD. However, a wife who fucks her massage therapist could possibly be. 4. Respecting her feelings - The fact that she has had two affairs then asked you to respect her feelings reveals that she has absolutely no respect for you. So she should never criticize anyone for a lack of respect. 5. Making you happy - She is not going to do anything to make you happy because your happiness is irrelevant to her. All she cares about is getting her way. 6. PTSD but having random sex - A person who really has PTSD from sex could not refuse sex with her husband and then go fuck a random guy or fuck a massage therapist. 7. She is in control- Yes she is, and she always has been. The only person who is not in control is you. 8. She needs space and not to be pressured by you for sex - Yes, she wants you to continue to meet all of her needs so that she can fuck whoever she wants, and refuse sex to her husband. I know these points are harsh, but frankly, your REFUSER deserves all the harshness that anyone can provide. She has taken advantage of your better nature to a huge extent. Refusing sex is bad enought, but fucking other men while refusing her husband shows her to be a very manipulative and selfish person. I hope you don't have children with her, but even if you do, you need to divorce her as soon as possible. Until you stop focusing on why she acts this way, and focus on why you accept it, things will never change. You do not deserve to be treated this way.
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Post by sdiamond1026 on May 29, 2017 12:47:19 GMT -5
1. Then say it was like I raped her because she didn't really want me to do it. 2. She complained that I asked too much and then had a 2 yr affair with her massage therapist once a month while I paid. 3. She says a big part of it is because she has PTSD from years of me asking and pressuring her for sex and her feeling used and like she had no control of her body. 4. She says I need to respect her feelings and back off and wait until she comes to me because she doesn't feel safe and has anxiety over years of feeling pressured by me and her just giving in. 5. I never understood why she couldn't just be happy and do it to make me happy even if she wasn't always in the mood to. 6. I don't get how she can have PTSD about sex and then go meet some random guy for sex online and then have a 2 year affair with someone else. 7. She mentioned that now she is in control. 8. She says she needs space and needs to know that I will respect her and not pressure her anymore for sex. First of all, welcome. I am so glad you found this place. I am so sorry for your situation. I can understand how frustrating this is. I have spotted some issues in your post that I would like to address, so I numbered them for easy reference. 1. Rape- This is total bullshit and a huge insult to every rape victim. I have prosecuted many rape cases, and I assure you that this in no way approaches rape. 2. The massage therapist affair - It is horrible enough to have an affair, but to have an affair with a service provider who her husband is paying is an insult to all wives. A loving wife would NEVER do this. 3. PTSD - Again, this is total bullshit. Asking for sex is not a cause of PTSD. However, a wife who fucks her massage therapist could possibly be. 4. Respecting her feelings - The fact that she has had two affairs then asked you to respect her feelings reveals that she has absolutely no respect for you. So she should never criticize anyone for a lack of respect. 5. Making you happy - She is not going to do anything to make you happy because your happiness is irrelevant to her. All she cares about is getting her way. 6. PTSD but having random sex - A person who really has PTSD from sex could not refuse sex with her husband and then go fuck a random guy or fuck a massage therapist. 7. She is in control- Yes she is, and she always has been. The only person who is not in control is you. 8. She needs space and not to be pressured by you for sex - Yes, she wants you to continue to meet all of her needs so that she can fuck whoever she wants, and refuse sex to her husband. I know these points are harsh, but frankly, your REFUSER deserves all the harshness that anyone can provide. She has taken advantage of your better nature to a huge extent. Refusing sex is bad enought, but fucking other men while refusing her husband shows her to be a very manipulative and selfish person. I hope you don't have children with her, but even if you do, you need to divorce her as soon as possible. Until you stop focusing on why she acts this way, and focus on why you accept it, things will never change. You do not deserve to be treated this way. I somehow just saw this last post. You sum this up nicely and make me feel somewhat better that I'm not the bad guy here and I didn't do anything wrong. There is one small thing here that I didn't mention that I wanted to get your opinion on. So about 3 years before we were married (20 yrs ago now when I was 25), my wife and I were living together. I was working nights and caught her chatting to some guys on the computer while I was working to pay the bills while she was going to school. After I caught her, she told me she didn't know what she wanted and wanted me to move out for a month so she could figure things out. I was young and stupid then and she never said anything about dating other people so I figured she just wanted to be alone for a month. So I agreed and moved back home. Well, I found out within a few weeks that she met some guy at the pool and was having sex with him. In fact, I found out the hard way. I came over to pick up some clothes and was pulling open a drawer near a garbage can and I glanced over and saw a used rubber in the garbage. I was beyond devastated. In the 5 yrs prior to all this when we didn't live together, she has cheated on me a few times. One involved sex and she actually broke up with me for about a month and then she came back saying how much she loved and wanted to be with me. Anyway, I find the rubber and was beyond devastated because she hadn't cheated in years and I thought it was done. She stopped seeing this guy and went the last 2 weeks of that month apart with no one, so I thought. On the last day of the month she called me and asked me to come over. I came over and she told me that the months apart made her realize that she loves me and wanted to marry me. Then she drops a bomb on me. That the night before, she met some guy online, spoke for an hr and then invited him over. He came over and had sex with her. She said she told him no but he was agressive and she just gave in. Well, then she tells me that he didn't use protection and f****** her in the ass and just finished inside her. At that moment, I truly believe I was the angriest I've even been in my life. I punched the wall and the dresser and left. I said then he raped you. She said no, I let him and left it at that. Somehow, even after all this, I move back in with her plan to marry her because she says how stupid she was and how she wanted to be with me. She of course said it wasn't cheating because we weren't together. To me, we were together because she told me she wanted a month to herself, not with other guys. Now I know that was her plan all along, to take a month to go have sex with as many guys as she could find and then come crying back to me and say we weren't together so it wasn't cheating. Anyway, so here's my question. That anal sex episode somehow messed me up more than anything back then. She never successfully let me do that, and then let's some perfect stranger come to the place I am paying for and do it. So I told her I wanted anal sex too if she let some stranger do it. So she let me do it here and there. There were times that during it, she would say it hurt or tell me to stop and I would say I'm almost done and keep going and she would deal with it. About 10 yrs after that, we went to marriage counseling for other issues. During that, my wife brought this up and this therapist told me that I crossed the line and that I had sexually abused my wife because I didn't stop when she told me to. At that point, I took responsibility and said, I didn't realize it but maybe I did. I told her I would never ask for that again and haven't since. I never thought I was doing anything wrong. I guess my mind was so messed up from the stranger doing it that I felt like why can't I do it and she should be fine with it and I'm gonna do it because he did. So 10 yrs ago I apologized and never asked for it again and felt bad about it. Well, now all of a sudden after her affairs, she is bringing this incident up again (from 20 yrs) and now she says that guy raped her and so did I. She says I was worse than him because I was the one that was supposed to love her and shouldn't have hurt her. I told her that I apologized 10 yrs who and she hasn't brought it up since and now that she had affairs, she is pulling this out to make me look worse than her. Back then she said it wasn't rape when I suggested it and now it suddenly is and I am suddenly a rapist too. She allowed me to do it every time and a few of the times, I admit I said I was almost done and didn't stop when she said it hurt or started crying. In my opinion, if she was really traumatized by some guy ass raping her and then me supposedly doing the same, she shouldn't want to put herself in a position to allow his to happen ever again. Yet, she signed up on a Cheater's website in 2013( at the start of her recent affairs) and meets some random stranger and gets in the back of his car with him and has sex. This guy could have raped her, choked her, ass f****** her or killed her even. Does this sound like a person who has PTSD from being "raped"? Then she has a 2 yr affair with a masseuse? What is your opinion on this? Was she really raped by this guy? Did I really rape her when she let me do it but I didn't stop when she said it hurt? Is she really suffering from PTSD from this incident? Why didn't she ever say he raped her before? Why now? Why is she bringing this incident up after 20 yrs? She even had the balls ro say that maybe she had the affair as punishment for what I did to her? This is shit because she cheated the very first time about 3 yrs prior to this incident and with 2 guys. One had no sex only because the guy had issues and couldn't get hard and she did have sex and left me for the second guy for a month. This was prior to marriage that these first 2 incidents happened.
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Post by Apocrypha on May 29, 2017 13:16:30 GMT -5
Does this sound like a person who has PTSD from being "raped"? Then she has a 2 yr affair with a masseuse? What is your opinion on this? Was she really raped by this guy? Did I really rape her when she let me do it but I didn't stop when she said it hurt? Is she really suffering from PTSD from this incident? Why didn't she ever say he raped her before? Why now? Why is she bringing this incident up after 20 yrs? She even had the balls ro say that maybe she had the affair as punishment for what I did to her? This is shit because she cheated the very first time about 3 yrs prior to this incident and with 2 guys. One had no sex only because the guy had issues and couldn't get hard and she did have sex and left me for the second guy for a month. This was prior to marriage that these first 2 incidents happened. These are all the wrong questions with regard to what happens next. It's unlikely that anyone raped her. It's more likely that she is a narcissist and sociopath, but there is no way to know. Deception and inauthenticity are at the core of your relationship, and so thoroughly blended with truth that it's impossible to know one from the other. Here you have a person who either believes you raped her, and that this excuses XYZ of her own behavior toward you, or she doesn't believe you raped her but will say you did in order to get away with XYZ, because she knows the accusation is an effective means of manipulation. Both of those scenarios are nuclear-war scale. My ex-gf in my twenties was also a sociopath and she accused a man of raping her when she was caught cheating (she later admitted to cheating constantly on me). She used it as a sympathy ploy to avoid taking responsibility for her choices. Rather than talking to each other to directly resolve your differences (you taking her ass because some other guy did, and her claiming cheating is a punishment for something else) you two are discussing RAPE allegations. You have a serial cheater who takes NO RESPONSIBILITY for her actions - meaning she feels entitled and righteous rather than guilty about her actions - who is obviously prepared to cry rape as method of getting what she wants or avoiding responsibility. Here's a better question: What would you have to have happen to leave this situation?
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Post by sdiamond1026 on May 29, 2017 13:30:56 GMT -5
Does this sound like a person who has PTSD from being "raped"? Then she has a 2 yr affair with a masseuse? What is your opinion on this? Was she really raped by this guy? Did I really rape her when she let me do it but I didn't stop when she said it hurt? Is she really suffering from PTSD from this incident? Why didn't she ever say he raped her before? Why now? Why is she bringing this incident up after 20 yrs? She even had the balls ro say that maybe she had the affair as punishment for what I did to her? This is shit because she cheated the very first time about 3 yrs prior to this incident and with 2 guys. One had no sex only because the guy had issues and couldn't get hard and she did have sex and left me for the second guy for a month. This was prior to marriage that these first 2 incidents happened. These are all the wrong questions with regard to what happens next. It's unlikely that anyone raped her. It's more likely that she is a narcissist and sociopath, but there is no way to know. Deception and inauthenticity are at the core of your relationship, and so thoroughly blended with truth that it's impossible to know one from the other. Here you have a person who either believes you raped her, and that this excuses XYZ of her own behavior toward you, or she doesn't believe you raped her but will say you did in order to get away with XYZ, because she knows the accusation is an effective means of manipulation. Both of those scenarios are nuclear-war scale. My ex-gf in my twenties was also a sociopath and she accused a man of raping her when she was caught cheating (she later admitted to cheating constantly on me). She used it as a sympathy ploy to avoid taking responsibility for her choices. Rather than talking to each other to directly resolve your differences (you taking her ass because some other guy did, and her claiming cheating is a punishment for something else) you two are discussing RAPE allegations. You have a serial cheater who takes NO RESPONSIBILITY for her actions - meaning she feels entitled and righteous rather than guilty about her actions - who is obviously prepared to cry rape as method of getting what she wants or avoiding responsibility. Here's a better question: What would you have to have happen to leave this situation? That's a very good question. I still love this person and can't understand why. We still have good times in the middle of her telling me she doesn't feel it for me sexually, (But is trying). We do have 2 kids and I worry about breaking apart the family. I know people always says it's better for the kids to not be around this kind of stuff but we don't argue around them and we still hug and kiss, hold hands, etc around the kids so they see positive stuff. They don't know anything about what happened. My friend says it won't end until I'm leaving in handcuffs when she calls the cops and says I hit or raped her. I don't think she would do this because she knows I would lose my job and she needs my money whether I'm with her or divorced.
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