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Post by DryCreek on Dec 31, 2016 1:53:11 GMT -5
Yes. Search for TimeForLiving2 on here. His is one of very few success stories. Anecdotally, there have been fewer than 5 reported turnarounds (certainly less than 10) in the last 8+ years in the life of this forum and its predecessor on ExperienceProject. Now, it may be that success stories just aren't checking back in. But across that many years and 50,000 members on EP you'd think the tally would be higher. I think baza may have kept a closer count. Fundamentally, the problem is that the low-libido spouse must acknowledge there's an issue, accept their role in the problem, and actively engage in making a change. And out of genuine desire, not under threat of divorce. Virtually no spouses will take those steps.
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Post by thefullmoon on Dec 31, 2016 1:55:50 GMT -5
I'm expecting to get 100 one word replies to this one, but I had to ask anyway. Sure, aborigens will give you more precise statistic... From EP I remember about 3 cases( more than 40 000 members) who described some progress and satisfactory results... one case later returned to square one and divorced followed... In all cases refusers wanted to save their marriages and wanted really work on it... So, very sadly, but statistic is negligible...
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Post by baza on Dec 31, 2016 2:10:33 GMT -5
The peak credible claims since Feb 2009 was 8. That was out of 50,000+ members. Do the math. 1 in 6,250, or 00.02% if you prefer. - Of those 8, Brother Apochyrpha's deal proved unsustainable and collapsed after a couple of years. Sister LovelyAlone (who has written on here recently) seems to now have the rattles too. - Brother time4living2 is the only current member in a revived deal. That's out of about 500 members here. By the same yardstick, 1 in 500, or if you prefer, 00.20% - The marriages here are the absolute arse end of the dysfunctional marriage spectrum. Basket cases. - "Jaded marriages" sometimes get fixed presupposing real early intervention takes place. Once you cross into ILIASM shithole territory, the odds of a recovery hover at around zero. - - - There are however, lots and lots of stories where people got out of their ILIASM shitholes and went on to bigger and better things. Quite a few among the current membership. There is also one current example where a member got out, but is no happier.
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Post by thebaffledking on Dec 31, 2016 2:42:54 GMT -5
Gawd, I wouldn't even want to TRY.....but then again, it's not just the sexless aspect for me; everything else went to hell with it - little things like affection, touching, kissing, communication, giving a shit, compatibility.....of course ALL of these things are my fault (-: I'm out by end of January. I am mentally collapsing and I feel like it's honestly getting dangerous (mental+physical health-wise) for me. Get busy livin' or get busy dyin'........
EarthHorse......basically, no. And the longer you stay in the worse it all gets, and the more you lose your sense of self......which can be quite terrifying, I assure you.
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Post by eternaloptimism on Dec 31, 2016 2:51:21 GMT -5
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Post by baza on Dec 31, 2016 3:22:55 GMT -5
Gawd, I wouldn't even want to TRY.....but then again, it's not just the sexless aspect for me; everything else went to hell with it - little things like affection, touching, kissing, communication, giving a shit, compatibility.....of course ALL of these things are my fault (-: I'm out by end of January. I am mentally collapsing and I feel like it's honestly getting dangerous (mental+physical health-wise) for me. Get busy livin' or get busy dyin'........ EarthHorse......basically, no. And the longer you stay in the worse it all gets, and the more you lose your sense of self......which can be quite terrifying, I assure you. Despite the groups title, the prime problem is rarely just the sex. It is a group wherein the members are in deeply dysfunctional marriages of some years (usually 5 at a minimum) standing. And unsurprisingly enough, in deeply dyfunctional marriages with many years history, there ain't any sex going on.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2016 5:52:53 GMT -5
I'm cynical enough at this point to think there's no hope for these deals. I agree with Baza that it's not about the sex so much as it is the lack of relationship and connection that causes the lack of sex.
If it were as easy as to start having sex, more of us might succeed. I might be able to whine, nag, poke, prod, or otherwise goad my husband into more sex, but that wouldn't make him relate to me more or love me more or stop drinking or stop stonewalling or having temper tantrums. And it wouldn't make him forthcoming with the sex, it would just require me to regularly beg for it. No thanks. After all these dysfunctional years, I don't even want it anymore. I used to take the reset sex. I'll refuse even that next time.
Too many other problems in these deals to make them fixable. I sense a lot of us deal with a spouse who is emotionally or mentally compromised (depression, anxiety) or addicted or personality-disordered or recovering from sexual abuse (admitted or not). Those things don't get fixed in 6 weeks of couples counseling. Some of those things can never be remediated.
I recall once reading a study showing that the vast majority of couples who were unhappy but remained in their marriages were once again happy after 5 years. So, I'm a believer in sticking around for at least that long to see if it can work. Ride the wave. However, I've now ridden 3 cycles of 5 years + a few extra for good measure and I am still no happier. That's probably not going to magically turn around.
Time to leave!
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Post by wom360 on Dec 31, 2016 6:38:53 GMT -5
I was technically sexless 10 years 2002-2012. That is, less than 10 times per year. Today about once a week. But ours was more a communication problem. And even with the sex I can't claim complete success. I still have a lot of resentment.
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Post by shamwow on Dec 31, 2016 9:03:27 GMT -5
Gawd, I wouldn't even want to TRY.....but then again, it's not just the sexless aspect for me; everything else went to hell with it - little things like affection, touching, kissing, communication, giving a shit, compatibility.....of course ALL of these things are my fault (-: I'm out by end of January. I am mentally collapsing and I feel like it's honestly getting dangerous (mental+physical health-wise) for me. Get busy livin' or get busy dyin'........ EarthHorse......basically, no. And the longer you stay in the worse it all gets, and the more you lose your sense of self......which can be quite terrifying, I assure you. Despite the groups title, the prime problem is rarely just the sex. It is a group wherein the members are in deeply dysfunctional marriages of some years (usually 5 at a minimum) standing. And unsurprisingly enough, in deeply dyfunctional marriages with many years history, there ain't any sex going on. +100 The more I think about it the more I realize the sexless portion is just the most visible aspect in a relationship that has gone off the rails. For some of us this happened recently. For others as soon as we said "I do" and for some even before that. It is as though our relationships have a kind of cancer and we are focused on curing the baldness that comes from its treatment.
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Post by csl on Dec 31, 2016 9:26:18 GMT -5
I'm expecting to get 100 one word replies to this one, but I had to ask anyway. I am a denizen of another forum, and I can tell you of several who have; five off the top of my head. I can also point you in the direction of several women bloggers who were refusers and now are sex-positive writers, encouraging other women to stop being frigidaires (not their terminology, of course.)
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Post by GeekGoddess on Dec 31, 2016 9:37:09 GMT -5
csl - I'd be interested in the sex-positive writers you mention. Give us a list of links, could you? Thanks!
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Post by unmatched on Dec 31, 2016 10:09:24 GMT -5
What do you mean by turn it around? There are a handful of people who have gone from a sexless marriage to one with sex in it. Although as baza said a couple of them subsequently seem to have gone downhill. My worry is more what happens if you do turn it around? Even timeforliving2, who is kind of like a poster child around here for possibility, doesn't strike me as being entirely thrilled with the results. (Sorry TL2!!!) If you take somebody who really doesn't want to fuck you and manage to get them to compromise to the point where they are willing to do it, or even happy to do it, even if you get engaged sex once a week, what is the chance of them ever approaching sex with the kind of enthusiasm that is really going to make you happy? It is just not going to happen. As mettamomma used to say on EP with alarming regularity, if you have to beg, bargain, threaten or cajole somebody into having sex with you, you are never going to have the kind of intimate sex life that you really want.
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Post by beachguy on Dec 31, 2016 10:23:38 GMT -5
There is another one here who is in the very early stages of some repair... @heraclitus
I agree that TL2 does not seem very enthusiastic about his progress.
As was mentioned previously, there are very few here that are even interested in sex with their spouses by now. That's pretty typical of the state of the marriage by the time people search their way here. How do you fix that, when you're not even sure who is the refuser any more? Personally, I have trouble even remembering being truly interested in sex with my STBX. How many decades back would I have to go?
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Post by novembercomingfire on Dec 31, 2016 10:38:36 GMT -5
What do you mean by turn it around? There are a handful of people who have gone from a sexless marriage to one with sex in it. Although as baza said a couple of them subsequently seem to have gone downhill. My worry is more what happens if you do turn it around? Even timeforliving2, who is kind of like a poster child around here for possibility, doesn't strike me as being entirely thrilled with the results. (Sorry TL2!!!) If you take somebody who really doesn't want to fuck you and manage to get them to compromise to the point where they are willing to do it, or even happy to do it, even if you get engaged sex once a week, what is the chance of them ever approaching sex with the kind of enthusiasm that is really going to make you happy? It is just not going to happen. As mettamomma used to say on EP with alarming regularity, if you have to beg, bargain, threaten or cajole somebody into having sex with you, you are never going to have the kind of intimate sex life that you really want. This is important, I think. If your partner is willing to move from zero sexual encounters to three a year - because that is to her/him, perfectly normal and might be ok - what exactly is the point. Strangely, there are some who just don't like sex and could not change that even if they wanted to.
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Post by unmatched on Dec 31, 2016 11:01:03 GMT -5
I'm new to this forum, so I still have that "new car smell" of optimism, maybe. But $&@#, this is discouraging. I'm struggling with whether to be hopeful or to just file asap. In addition to the SM issue, she is dealing with her own shit with her family (parents are narcissistic shitbags who have imposed themselves into our lives for years. I finally cut them out this year--she cut her communication to text only). She's not used to healthy or open communication. I've talked about it for awhile; she's finally seeing a counselor. I understand no one can give me a definitive answer for my situation. I feel like W came from a long line of shits and is trying to break the cycle (her sister came to the same realization and has been in therapy for a few years. She's cutting off communication with parents too). How am I supposed to parse whether W is actually trying to change (seems to be), whether she actually will (crapshoot), and how long should I actually wait around to find out (the longer I stay, harder it is to leave)? She's the mother of my children and I genuinely care about her. Even through this, I still have genuine desire towards her. Based on what I'm reading, though, just seems like the odds are 99.9% against us coming to a place where we learn to actually communicate with each other and be comfortable enough to engage in sexual intimacy. I am curious - a couple of days after the last conversation you mentioned, did she actually call the counsellor and have the two of you actually talked about anything?
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