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Post by isthisit on Apr 19, 2024 16:52:43 GMT -5
is this it: "I am trying not to be horrified that her seven year old child perceives a priority to men is how a woman looks. My kids had better values at 7. " why would it not be considered normal for men and women to want partners whom they find attractive and who take the time to look good for them? Who wants to be with a slob of a partner whom one finds hard to look at? The article very clearly said that men aren't looking for supermodels but for someone whom they find appealing to look at. That's just common sense. If you were to date someone would you want to date someone whose face or body repelled you or who looked like they made no effort to look good for a date? My interpretation was much more nuanced than yours. Of course I would not date someone whose face or body repelled me. But there is quite some distance between looks being the priority and being repelled by them. It was the order of priority that a woman’s looks came before everything else which I found so obnoxious. Looking good came before everything which came after. For me, being kind, good company, having sound values are more valuable than physical appearance. After all, a good looking dickhead is still a dickhead, and God knows, I have met enough of those. You asked about me. Looks are not unimportant to me, but they certainly are not the priority. It is very similar to when you sense a person is interested in you for reasons other than the person you are. Money, status, title, occupation, power, social capital etc. Very, very off putting. |
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Post by northstarmom on Apr 19, 2024 17:41:45 GMT -5
Looks are the first thing we notice about people. If we are repelled by someone's looks we aren't likely to try to get to know them better. Many people now meet prospective partners through dating websites and what the person looks like is very important. The person has to look appealing for a prospective date to want to know more about them. Looks may attract people but personality is what keeps things going.
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Post by isthisit on Apr 19, 2024 17:55:19 GMT -5
Looks are the first thing we notice about people. If we are repelled by someone's looks we aren't likely to try to get to know them better. Many people now meet prospective partners through dating websites and what the person looks like is very important. The person has to look appealing for a prospective date to want to know more about them. Looks may attract people but personality is what keeps things going. Well I don’t use dating sites for this very reason. I meet people in the real world and get to know them as people long before romance is even an option. I don’t want someone to be primarily interested in how I look, or any other factors, I would prefer for them to be impressed with who I am. I dated a man for six years whom I did not intially find physically attractive but when I discovered more about him I was quickly intoxicated. I guess I am different to you in this respect. |
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Post by northstarmom on Apr 19, 2024 18:22:41 GMT -5
isthisit:"Well I don’t use dating sites for this very reason. I meet people in the real world and get to know them as people long before romance is even an option. I don’t want someone to be primarily interested in how I look, or any other factors, I would prefer for them to be impressed with who I am. I dated a man for six years whom I did not intially find physically attractive but when I discovered more about him I was quickly intoxicated.
I guess I am different to you in this respect. "
We are very similar. I tried on-line dating, went out on one date with 2 different men, and wasn't interested in any of them. The men looked OK and we appeared to have interests in common but when I met them in person, I didn't click with any of them. One was still mourning his ex. Another talked so much I could never get a word in I, too, prefer meeting people in real life but I also know that depending on where you live, that can be hard, especially as one ages.
I'd known my now post sm partner of 11 years for about 3 years before he asked me out. We knew each other from being involved in a local community theater. I'd never considered him a dating prospect until he asked me out. It had just never crossed my mind. But when he asked me out, I figured it would be a chance to practice dating and to get to know him as, at the very least, a friend. He looked OK to me. I wasn't repelled by his looks or I wouldn't have gone out with him.
Over dinner is where I got to know his character, and that's what impressed me. He was comfortable talking about sensitive subjects such as how he froze when giving his junior college student body president graduation speak. He openly admitted he was in bad shape then as his mom, whom he was very close to, had died of cancer just 3 weeks previous to that. My refuser ex used to get a deer in the headlights look even when asked a question like, "What was your childhood like?"
Anyway, I learned that my date and I had important things in common such as similar values, politics, and other interests. The more we talked, the more attractive I found him -- externally and in terms of his character. He also met my wanting to be with a man who had friends and interests of his own so wouldn't depend on me to be his social coordinator.
Thus, my point has never been that a person has to be handsome for me to be attracted to him. My point continues to be that I can't find the person physically repulsive. I don't think that most people choose as friends or dates people whose looks repel them. What are things that I'd find repellant: facial tattoos, meth mouth, and huge bushy beards are what come first to my mind.
FWIW, the dating site I used was OK Cupid, which provides lots of space for people to write about themselves and what they're looking for. Sites that only show one prospects' pictures have never interested me. I want to know more about a person than what their face or body looks like.
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Post by isthisit on Apr 19, 2024 18:37:34 GMT -5
isthisit:"Well I don’t use dating sites for this very reason. I meet people in the real world and get to know them as people long before romance is even an option. I don’t want someone to be primarily interested in how I look, or any other factors, I would prefer for them to be impressed with who I am. I dated a man for six years whom I did not intially find physically attractive but when I discovered more about him I was quickly intoxicated. I guess I am different to you in this respect. " We are very similar. Okay so I guess our differences lie in that I am very much not a black and white thinker. The people are attractive or repulsive thing is too binary for me. The overwhelming majority of people are somewhere in the middle. A man who was repulsive to me is a non-starter, but this is a tiny minority of people. So, in principle, pretty much everyone has a shot until they turn out to be a dickhead. A case in point. I am on holiday at the moment, on an island off Africa. Yesterday I got chatted up in the hot tub. A conventionally attractive man, looked fit, six pack, nice smile. Outright told me I looked great in my bikini and his damn eyes were roaming my thorax the whole time. He was working real hard enquiring about my plans for the evening and I guess many women would swoon at the attention. I could not get out of there fast enough. He was interested in my boobs and probably my orifices and little else seemed to matter. Vile. |
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Post by northstarmom on Apr 19, 2024 18:51:46 GMT -5
isthisit: "Okay so I guess our differences lie in that I am very much not a black and white thinker. The people are attractive or repulsive thing is too binary for me. The overwhelming majority of people are somewhere in the middle. A man who was repulsive to me is a non-starter, but this is a tiny minority of people. So, in principle, pretty much everyone has a shot until they turn out to be a dickhead."
You keep making assumptions about me that simply aren't true.There are only a small amount of people whom I'd reject strictly on looks. I gave examples. Most men don't have facial tattoos, meth mouth or big bushy beards (at least not most men who are in their 60s-70s, my age group). I know such beards are attractive to younger people, but they are turnoffs to me when it comes to romance. FWIW, length or quantity of hair on a man's head isn't a deal breaker for me as it is for some women.
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Post by isthisit on Apr 19, 2024 19:01:39 GMT -5
isthisit: "Okay so I guess our differences lie in that I am very much not a black and white thinker. The people are attractive or repulsive thing is too binary for me. The overwhelming majority of people are somewhere in the middle. A man who was repulsive to me is a non-starter, but this is a tiny minority of people. So, in principle, pretty much everyone has a shot until they turn out to be a dickhead." You keep making assumptions about me that simply aren't true.There are only a small amount of people whom I'd reject strictly on looks. I gave examples. Most men don't have facial tattoos, meth mouth or big bushy beards (at least not most men who are in their 60s-70s, my age group). I know such beards are attractive to younger people, but they are turnoffs to me when it comes to romance. FWIW, length or quantity of hair on a man's head isn't a deal breaker for me as it is for some women. I am sorry to think I am making assumptions about you, I am not. I can only interpret what you write and this relates to people being attractive or repulsive. There is a lot of ground to cover between those points. The original purpose of this conversation relates to the fact that the daft information normalising the primary value of women is to look good before other qualities deserves to be questioned. At times being here feels like stepping into an episode of Mad Men. |
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Post by northstarmom on Apr 19, 2024 19:14:35 GMT -5
I do think that if a woman -- or a man-- is looking for romance, it is to their advantage if they take the time to look their best. In addition to looking kempt, it helps to also look friendly and approachable.
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Post by greatcoastal on Apr 21, 2024 7:04:48 GMT -5
(In contrast, if you don’t like sex and touching and you are dating divorced men, you’re old enough to know this ain’t gonna change, and you need to find a lower libido man, and these do exist!)
Love this last line!! I would pass it along to my now ex narc. SM. W.- if we still communicated! ( very thankful that we don't communicate at all!)
I'm also painfully aware that I will continue to meet woman who divorced who won't openly admit that they came from a SM ( them being the sexless instigator)
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Post by greatcoastal on Apr 21, 2024 9:09:52 GMT -5
#3) Every man dreams of a woman who initiates intimacy! Because it makes him feel desired for who he is as a person, rather than what he can provide.
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Post by worksforme2 on Apr 21, 2024 10:23:26 GMT -5
The original purpose of this conversation relates to the fact that the daft information normalising the primary value of women is to look good before other qualities deserves to be questioned. At times being here feels like stepping into an episode of Mad Men. I have never watched Mad Men so I don't get the reference, never the less I'll go on. Sorry to be the one who has to tell you this. With the possible exception of Afganistan or outer Mongolia, women all over the world are mostly assessed firstly on the way they look. A woman does not need to be a movie star re:looks, but if she makes little effort to make herself attractive to others, both male and female, then she is most likely going to find herself a wallflower in the grand scheme of things. I am often attracted to a woman who would basically be considered average. But if she presents herself as approachable, and she has put on her face and her apparal accents her best features, then I am likely to find her attractive. I expect this holds true for most males.And it is generally acknowledged that in judging women on their appearance, the perception is that women are the most critical of each other. And as long as I am mansplanning this, I will probably push one more of your buttons. Mirrororchid could probably say this far more eloquently than me, but concerning a womans breasts. I am unashamedly on the record as a breast man. Woman often note that during a conversation with a man, the man's eyes will frequently wonder down to their breasts. Many men, including this man, it seems are hard wired to be captivated by a woman's mammories. It is in our nature, unless he plays for the other team. So as a man I can understand another man being distracted viewing the cleavage presented to him by a woman in a bikini. And be honest, some part of you, maybe way down deep, wants the attention wearing a bikini is likely to foster. Just not from this man. I will also go on record about chocolate. Cadberry and couple other British offerings are pretty good, but if I want to enjoy the best chocolate experience in the western world, I will be reaching for a Snickers bar. It blows British chocloteers out of the water. |
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Post by isthisit on Apr 21, 2024 14:48:24 GMT -5
The original purpose of this conversation relates to the fact that the daft information normalising the primary value of women is to look good before other qualities deserves to be questioned. At times being here feels like stepping into an episode of Mad Men. I will also go on record about chocolate. Cadberry and couple other British offerings are pretty good. 🤣🤣 Well I had a lovely giggle at your response. Honestly, I have had men taking a sneaky glance at the girls every day of my adult life, you really don’t need to explain that! Every woman knows it, and ignores it. What you don’t get every day is some tosser offering an uninvited appraisal in a public place. I was quite surprised as the man is Norwegian and usually they are very well mannered. As a Euro of a certain age, hot-tub guy was a rocking budgie smugglers and did I reciprocate with a comment on the size of his family jewels? Nope, my manners are better (was quite impressive, yep I checked it out. I am human too. Dude is a Viking after all.) And nope, I never give a thought to whether anyone is checking me out in my bikini. I wear it because I like to feel the sun on my skin (I don’t see very much of it at home) it’s better for tanning and I work hard to look good in it, so enjoy relaxing feeling good just like I do in other clothes in other settings. Couldn’t give a flying fuck about other people’s opinion. So, sure everyone strives to make the best of themselves for many reasons, self esteem, possibly attractiveness to others and other reasons beside. I repeat, my objection was the notion that a woman’s appearance was of primary importance above other qualities which is not okay in any way, and certainly not when this is applied to females only. The value of every human being should be measured in who they are before what they look like. If you are unfamiliar with Mad Men worksforme2 , do yourself a favour and Google Joan from Mad Men, you will be glad you did. About the Cadbury. The stuff in the US is made to the nasty US regulations and nothing like the real stuff. If you had it outside of the US, then you can make a judgement, if not I am not sure you can. I gratefully dived into a familiar looking KitKat in the US as it was presented identically to the packet I am used to. I spat it out. Rotten chocolate disguised as the nice stuff. Apparently your regs mean the recipe is restricted in some way which accounts for the nastiness. |
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Post by mirrororchid on Apr 22, 2024 6:05:28 GMT -5
is this it: "I am trying not to be horrified that her seven year old child perceives a priority to men is how a woman looks. My kids had better values at 7. "
...
Looks are not unimportant to me, but they certainly are not the priority. It is very similar to when you sense a person is interested in you for reasons other than the person you are. Money, status, title, occupation, power, social capital etc. Very, very off putting.
So looks are a priority.
Just not the priority.
Thus, being attracted by superficial good looks is horrifying at a certain threshold.
How do you determine such a metric?
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Post by greatcoastal on Apr 22, 2024 6:35:13 GMT -5
2. Be nice.
Nice, to men, usually means physically and verbally affectionate. Most men do not initiate their divorces, so they were likely in a marriage for years with a partner who was feeling more and more upset or distant. They have not experienced praise or affection in a marriage in a long time, and more than anything, they want someone who can openly express delight, appreciation, and later, love and desire.
Sunday evening I went to my local Moose Lodge for the regular 3 hrs. of ballroom dancing. I danced with 15 different women, some of these women I've never met before,and others I dance with on a regular basis- DPO (Dance Partner Only)-
While dancing, I had two different women tell me " you look very serious ". later I had a different women tell me " You're a very handsome man, the best looking man in the place! that was really fun!" Which of the three do you think I remember the most? And want to spend more time with?
Side note: You don't know what other people are going through in their lives and not everyone can be happy and complimentary in the moment. When I've had a rough day, ( mentally and or physically) and know I'm not going to be a very happy person to be around, I stay home.
Also,as the lead dancer, I have a lot to think about! so ...yes I do have to take it serious.
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Post by northstarmom on Apr 22, 2024 11:39:58 GMT -5
Given that virtually all of the women and men have been refused in SMs. I don't understand why anyone here wouldn't think it's important for their partner to find them attractive. Most of us had problems in our marriages because our partners didn't act like they considered us sexy or attractive when it came to physical looks. If my partner only thought my personality was attractive, I'd be worried that he might like me as a friend or roommate but not as a lover. BTDT. I don't want to be in that situation again. I find nothing wrong with physical attractiveness being high on the list for what men and women look for in partners. If a man doesn't find me physically appealing, I don't want him to waste both of our time by dating me.
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