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Post by iceman on Jun 15, 2016 13:20:20 GMT -5
I also did the stay-at-home mom thing, far beyond the years it was needed. I learned that it created an entitlement, and I'd be looking at 10 years of spousal support; in some jurisdictions, past a certain milestone (as little as 10 years, I've heard), spousal maintenance is for life. Just FYI, you don't have to continue to pay spousal support when you retire, nor can you be required to keep working past 65. At least in CA. So "for life" isn't quite what it sounds like. Also, if your spouse gets a decent job, spousal support can be reduced to reflect their new earning capacity. AND, if you've never heard of it, most judges will issue a Gavron warning to the supported spouse that tells them they need to make serious effort to find meaningful work, although it is expected that it could take someone quite a while to find work if they have been out of the full time work force for a decade or more. Of course, you would want to check and see if all this is true in your jurisdiction. That's the part I need to find out. What are the nuances of my state? I know every state is different. |
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Post by iceman on Jun 15, 2016 13:27:51 GMT -5
Welcome Iceman. It sounds like you're well aware of your options (stay, stay and outsource, go). I just came to say when I read these two sentences you wrote, "I'm a very sexual person. I crave physical contact, especially with somebody I love," I physically felt a twinge in my heart. I'm currently separated and thinking about dating some day. I very much want to have a relationship with a man who wants lots of physcial affection. Before I gave up for good I would try to cuddle on the couch but it made him too hot. I would playfully grab his butt in the kitchen and he'd slap me away. I would playfully look in on him while he is showering, which just led to being told to get out. It would be amazing to be with a man who instead of turning away from physical contact would reciprocate it and have these playful moments turn into amazing sex (we have no kids so I know it's not possible he was being short with me because someone might walk in on us.) When I tried those playful things she turned into a statue and there was no response. Later she would tell me that she didn't want to respond because she was worried that I would expect sex. That sort of said it all. I know longer even make the attempt. There's only so much rejection that I can endure. |
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Post by ggold on Jun 15, 2016 13:29:52 GMT -5
It's true that you might have less financial security if you divorce. But when you look back on your life, will you ask yourself "why didn't I make more money?" Or "why didn't I spend my life with someone I truly loved and who loved me equally?" I think about that all the time. We only get one shot at life. I feel like this I'm at the crossroads. Do I have the courage to go for the unknown and look for happiness, and maybe relative poverty, or do I remain where it's safe and I know what to expect, and I have money. even though I'm accepting a life of unhappiness. When I read what I just wrote it seems like it should be so easy to make that decision. Go for happiness!!! But it's so hard .... Yes, terribly difficult decision. Not easy at all. We have to eventually make a choice. The choice of what is familiar but unfulfilling or the choice of change, the unknown, and potential happiness. |
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Post by iceman on Jun 15, 2016 13:53:54 GMT -5
Lots of good advice here, so you have my sympathy but I won't repeat what others have said. The only thing I would add is right now you still have some time before your kids leave home and more time before you are due to retire. But not all that much time. So if there is some possibility you might find yourself wanting/needing to divorce, you should get advice NOW and start thinking about it. At this point there may well still be things you can do to improve the situation or at least stop it getting worse. If you bury your hand in the sand for another few years while your kids go off to college and your retirement creeps ever closer, you might find your options at that point are less good than they are now. I hear you. The clock is ticking. I'd have a lot more flexibility 10 or even 5 years ago. If we're going to split it would be better for both of us to get it done sooner rather than later. The sad part is that I've had these thoughts off and on for almost the entire marriage but just kept hoping it would get better. |
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Post by iceman on Jun 15, 2016 14:10:11 GMT -5
I feel that way as well at this point. Sure I miss the actual sex but even more I miss the emotional bond that comes with sex. she doesn't get that she's shutting me out emotionally when she's constantly rejecting me. She somehow expects me to remain emotionally bonded to her and we can get our intimacy back without sex. She needs to understand that through sex and I'm talking about enthusiastic passionate sex, you feel loved. That is your love language. She's either wanting, notice I didn't say willing, to make you feel loved or she isn't. Let me guess she's - quality time and acts of service. Uggh! Enthusiastic sex?  ? It's been so long I'm not sure what that would be like anymore!! And yes you guessed it - she's all about quality time and acts of service. And the quality time she means has nothing to do with rolling around in bed for an hour or so. At this point I'd take just 10 minutes of that kind of quality time. Of course 10 minutes was her idea of sex. No foreplay to speak of. Just get to it so it would be over and she could go to sleep. She would have been happy with 5 min or less, whatever time it takes for me to get off but I'd resist for just a little foreplay such as it was. What kind of woman doesn't like foreplay? |
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Post by bballgirl on Jun 15, 2016 14:43:42 GMT -5
She needs to understand that through sex and I'm talking about enthusiastic passionate sex, you feel loved. That is your love language. She's either wanting, notice I didn't say willing, to make you feel loved or she isn't. Let me guess she's - quality time and acts of service. Uggh! Enthusiastic sex? ? It's been so long I'm not sure what that would be like anymore!! And yes you guessed it - she's all about quality time and acts of service. And the quality time she means has nothing to do with rolling around in bed for an hour or so. At this point I'd take just 10 minutes of that kind of quality time. Of course 10 minutes was her idea of sex. No foreplay to speak of. Just get to it so it would be over and she could go to sleep. She would have been happy with 5 min or less, whatever time it takes for me to get off but I'd resist for just a little foreplay such as it was. What kind of woman doesn't like foreplay? Yes I was married to quality time, which meant sitting on the couch watching tv and acts of service which meant one of his favorite meals. I made his life convenient that's all he needed me for. Yeah I don't know the answer to that last question because everyone is different. There is a reason though but that doesn't matter. She doesn't want to or doesn't know how to make you feel loved. |
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Post by ggold on Jun 15, 2016 17:22:42 GMT -5
i can say that I still love my wife. I'm just not in love with her. If she'd be honest I think she'd say the same thing about me. She says she misses me when I'm gone. I keep thinking 'Why?'. At this point I'm no picnic to be around. I've gone past anger to indifference. I don't want anything bad to happen to her. She is who she is and she's not going to change. And she shouldn't have to. She should be able to be who she is. It's one thing to make accommodations for your spouse. Everybody in a good marriage does that. It's quite another thing to change the fundamental way you are. Nobody should do that. If one finds out that you and your spouse are too far apart the mature and right thing to do is to part ways. Easy to say, tough to actually do. I feel stuck. I've thought about divorce. I've thought about outsourcing, though I have to admit I'm not sure how to line up a partner for that even if I wanted to. I'm not sure outsourcing is for me. It would probably be fun for awhile but it would probably lead to more pain than it's worth. Might be fun to try however. I go back and forth on the subject. I don't know if I can say I love my husband. I am not in love with him. I care about him a lot. He's the father of my kids and my partner. I thought he'd say the same about me, but he still says he loves me. He says he cannot accept the way I feel and the way things are between us now. I've been disrespectful to him and rude, but I'm trying to control my anger. I said I don't want to be that way, especially for the kids. He won't change and, you are right, he should not have to. He is who he is. We are now too far apart. We will never be intimate again. I do not feel that way towards him anymore and have not for a long time. Stuck. Yes! Very. I said the words to him that we need to think about separating/divorcing. I think he refuses to really hear these words, he won't let them become his reality. I outsourced one night. Leading up to the event, my nerves were shot but I was so excited. After not having sex in about 9 years, I could not believe it was going to happen or that another man would even want me intimately. He knows about it and still wants to save our marriage. What that night did, though, was awaken me to the fact that I need a man I can connect with sexually and intimately. It also made it crystal clear that I must create an exit plan and embark on a new journey in my life. |
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Post by unmatched on Jun 15, 2016 20:08:59 GMT -5
She needs to understand that through sex and I'm talking about enthusiastic passionate sex, you feel loved. That is your love language. She's either wanting, notice I didn't say willing, to make you feel loved or she isn't. Let me guess she's - quality time and acts of service. Uggh! I love this. I have never thought much about the difference between being willing to make somebody feel loved, and actually wanting to make somebody feel loved. Why would we ever settle for the former? I get a huge amount out of giving people pleasure. I like to give people things, I like to do stuff for people that helps them move forward in their lives, I like to cook and watch people enjoy the food, I like to make somebody come over and over and I love watching their reactions and seeing them enjoy it. It doesn't seem like everybody feels that way. |
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Post by DryCreek on Jun 15, 2016 22:44:07 GMT -5
She needs to understand that through sex and I'm talking about enthusiastic passionate sex, you feel loved. That is your love language. She's either wanting, notice I didn't say willing, to make you feel loved or she isn't. Let me guess she's - quality time and acts of service. Uggh! Wow. Nailed it. On all counts. iceman - I'd swear we're married to the same woman from your later descriptions. unmatched - I'm so with you on the joy of giving, in many different ways. (Cooking is definitely not one of my ways.) |
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Post by bballgirl on Jun 15, 2016 23:19:40 GMT -5
She needs to understand that through sex and I'm talking about enthusiastic passionate sex, you feel loved. That is your love language. She's either wanting, notice I didn't say willing, to make you feel loved or she isn't. Let me guess she's - quality time and acts of service. Uggh! Wow. Nailed it. On all counts. iceman - I'd swear we're married to the same woman from your later descriptions. unmatched - I'm so with you on the joy of giving, in many different ways. (Cooking is definitely not one of my ways.) It really isn't rocket science. People can either do it or they can't. There are things that I can't do, like swing from a chandelier. I will never do that and if a man needs me to do that so he feels loved then I'm not for him because I don't want to swing from a chandelier. I'd sooner just swing! Not really though. I'm pretty vanilla with some sprinkles and a cherry on top and hot fudge! Lol |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2016 12:40:56 GMT -5
I feel that way as well at this point. Sure I miss the actual sex but even more I miss the emotional bond that comes with sex. she doesn't get that she's shutting me out emotionally when she's constantly rejecting me. She somehow expects me to remain emotionally bonded to her and we can get our intimacy back without sex. She needs to understand that through sex and I'm talking about enthusiastic passionate sex, you feel loved. That is your love language. She's either wanting, notice I didn't say willing, to make you feel loved or she isn't. Let me guess she's - quality time and acts of service. Uggh! How about "quality time" spent making out? And "acts of service" such as....[use your imaginations here!] |
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Post by bballgirl on Jun 16, 2016 12:47:56 GMT -5
She needs to understand that through sex and I'm talking about enthusiastic passionate sex, you feel loved. That is your love language. She's either wanting, notice I didn't say willing, to make you feel loved or she isn't. Let me guess she's - quality time and acts of service. Uggh! How about "quality time" spent making out? And "acts of service" such as....[use your imaginations here!] I like the way you think lady!! |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2016 12:57:20 GMT -5
She thinks doing me a good dead is buying me Bologna or hot dogs.... she could save the money with some enthusiastic sex...not that scared uncomfortable look she seemed to always have....That makes ME uncomfortable.... quality time is doing what she wants to do..... never her just spending time with me and what I like....
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Post by DryCreek on Jun 16, 2016 12:58:57 GMT -5
How about "quality time" spent making out? And "acts of service" such as....[use your imaginations here!] Hey, I'm all about spending "quality time" doing "acts of service"... But somehow that doesn't count!  |
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Post by iceman on Jun 16, 2016 13:00:29 GMT -5
She needs to understand that through sex and I'm talking about enthusiastic passionate sex, you feel loved. That is your love language. She's either wanting, notice I didn't say willing, to make you feel loved or she isn't. Let me guess she's - quality time and acts of service. Uggh! How about "quality time" spent making out? And "acts of service" such as....[use your imaginations here!] Oh, I can think of a lot of services I'd like performed and a lot I'd like to perform!!  |
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? It's been so long I'm not sure what that would be like anymore!! 
