m76
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Post by m76 on Sept 18, 2023 7:43:53 GMT -5
So we talked more about "compromise" and I brought up the idea of non-monogamy and she pretty much freaked out at that idea. She did say she's wants to compromise but not if its all about fixing her since she doesn't think there's anything wrong with her. So I guess the compromise is that I give up sex. Am I wrong in feeling like she changed the terms of our marriage? Well, ask her, don't guess. "Does your definition of compromise mean 'no sex'?" Get specifics from her, not ephemeral vagaries. she's specifically said that she has no interest in sex and that any compromise cant mean trying to "fix" her. So she's been very clear that sex is not an option. I asked her what a compromise would look like for her and she couldn't come up with anything. So I told her that it's not like a compromise where one person wants sex everyday and the only wants it once a week so they can negotiate something in between.... there really is no middle ground in this case. I told her I was hurt that all those years of her coming up with excuses gave me hope that maybe next time she'd want sex. She should have told me years ago that she had no interest. She brushed it off that people change. So I'm going to try the couples counseling next but I have no expectations of any change. |
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Post by Apocrypha on Sept 18, 2023 8:39:08 GMT -5
So we talked more about "compromise" and I brought up the idea of non-monogamy and she pretty much freaked out at that idea. She did say she's wants to compromise but not if its all about fixing her since she doesn't think there's anything wrong with her. So I guess the compromise is that I give up sex. Am I wrong in feeling like she changed the terms of our marriage? Imagine your wedding day and what you could both reasonably say you thought marriage includes. How does a marriage differ from best buds? from business partner? from amicable ex-spouse co-parent? Is a unique mutual sexual attraction part of marriage? If you don't have that anymore - and you don't - do you have what either of you would agree is a marriage? What, instead, is the best case version of what you DO have? |
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Post by Apocrypha on Sept 18, 2023 8:41:36 GMT -5
Well, ask her, don't guess. "Does your definition of compromise mean 'no sex'?" Get specifics from her, not ephemeral vagaries. she's specifically said that she has no interest in sex and that any compromise cant mean trying to "fix" her. So she's been very clear that sex is not an option. I asked her what a compromise would look like for her and she couldn't come up with anything. So I told her that it's not like a compromise where one person wants sex everyday and the only wants it once a week so they can negotiate something in between.... there really is no middle ground in this case. I told her I was hurt that all those years of her coming up with excuses gave me hope that maybe next time she'd want sex. She should have told me years ago that she had no interest. She brushed it off that people change. So I'm going to try the couples counseling next but I have no expectations of any change. I've never heard of couples' counselling working when one person felt he/she was totally in the right, or didn't really want to change. It doesn't sound like the conflict or feeling she has about you or the marriage is something she regrets or wants to fix at all. What are your goals in counselling? Are they aligned? |
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m76
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Posts: 416
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Post by m76 on Sept 18, 2023 10:22:48 GMT -5
The good news, as of this morning, my wife has booked a counciling session for just herself. So at least I know she wants to try something. We'll see what the outcome of that is. I think the fact that she's willing to take this step is promising and more then I expected.
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Post by mirrororchid on Sept 18, 2023 10:50:02 GMT -5
Here's hoping you're right.
My wife was actively in therapy when she reset.
Then again, some ILIASM refused wives were in therapy when they realized they deserved better treatment and pulled the trigger on divorce.
It wouldn't hurt to get familiar with the divorce process in case she paints you in a bad light to her therapist and the therapist isn't experienced enough to be skeptical of a single side of an argument.
Knowing what to expect from a divorce and what initial steps will occur will cushion any blow that may come.
I suspect my wife's therapist heard about our SM and offered the options: Stop being celibate and maybe save your marriage, accept his opening the marriage and maybe lose him anyway, divorce him and wish him luck.
The refuser side of the ILIASM big three: stay, "cheat", or leave.
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Post by jim44444 on Sept 18, 2023 10:58:52 GMT -5
The good news, as of this morning, my wife has booked a counciling session for just herself. So at least I know she wants to try something. We'll see what the outcome of that is. I think the fact that she's willing to take this step is promising and more then I expected. Be careful with unsupported expectations. Without knowledge of the session goals you could be surprised at the outcome. She could be in counseling to build up her self-esteem to facilitate filing for a divorce. Maybe she is grappling with ethical non-monoagamy. Maybe she is trying to resolve some prior trauma. You will only know if she chooses to share with you. |
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m76
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Posts: 416
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Post by m76 on Sept 18, 2023 11:08:39 GMT -5
The good news, as of this morning, my wife has booked a counciling session for just herself. So at least I know she wants to try something. We'll see what the outcome of that is. I think the fact that she's willing to take this step is promising and more then I expected. Be careful with unsupported expectations. Without knowledge of the session goals you could be surprised at the outcome. She could be in counseling to build up her self-esteem to facilitate filing for a divorce. Maybe she is grappling with ethical non-monoagamy. Maybe she is trying to resolve some prior trauma. You will only know if she chooses to share with you. honestly if divorce is something that she wants, I'd accept that. Its not ideal but it would be better then then current roommate situation now. I'm choosing to stay at the moment because it's the easiest option financially and for stability for my son. If the worst outcome is that we sell the house, split everything 50/50 and go out separate ways, I can live with that. But I can also hope for the best case where we could rekindle what was lost. |
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Post by toughtiger on Sept 18, 2023 15:10:45 GMT -5
I think it is a good sign that she is getting some counseling perhaps she has underlying reasons that when worked out she could rework your marriage with you.
i see any progress whether counseling or talking to doctor in other cases as a positive.
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Post by greatcoastal on Sept 18, 2023 17:15:43 GMT -5
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Post by mirrororchid on Sept 19, 2023 6:05:23 GMT -5
Great articles, GC.
The one about therapy contributing to divorce in unhappy marriages described situations we have seen posted here more than once.
Not sure the refuser joining the therapy would help.
My wife reset shortly after I joined her at therapy and made no apologies for my plan to outsource, so...it fit with Adrienne and Tom's experience.
Sex can create an environment where the other problems are more likely to be solved, because the incentive to do so increases greatly for the refused.
Contrarily, withholding sex creates an environment where displeasure gets magnified.
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Post by csl on Sept 19, 2023 7:34:20 GMT -5
Interesting. She seems to have the idea that compromise means "dictate terms of surrender to a defeated foe." Kinda like Russia and its satellite states, no?
Maybe buy her a dictionary for her birthday?
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Post by h on Sept 20, 2023 13:21:32 GMT -5
That is NOT a compromise at all.... " not about fixing her " then did she tell you what she thought the problem is then? ....what does she say needs fixed? ... just you wanting a sex life and intimacy? sex is part of a marriage period ... if it wasn't then what concern would they have in outsourcing... so yeah i think she is changing terms of marriage. Her suggestion was to do more non-sexual activities together. If she's not going to allow some sexual activities for you, then her non-sexual activities are not a compromise. She's getting what she wants out of the marriage and she expects YOU to suck it up and be happy with the things that make HER happy. Her idea of compromise is you giving up on your own needs while she is getting MORE than before. |
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Post by h on Sept 20, 2023 13:33:25 GMT -5
The good news, as of this morning, my wife has booked a counciling session for just herself. So at least I know she wants to try something. We'll see what the outcome of that is. I think the fact that she's willing to take this step is promising and more then I expected. My thoughts on this are less optimistic. Maybe she's going to individual therapy to check the box and say that she "tried" before painting you as the villain and divorcing you with prejudice. |
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m76
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Posts: 416
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Post by m76 on Sept 20, 2023 14:26:45 GMT -5
The good news, as of this morning, my wife has booked a counciling session for just herself. So at least I know she wants to try something. We'll see what the outcome of that is. I think the fact that she's willing to take this step is promising and more then I expected. My thoughts on this are less optimistic. Maybe she's going to individual therapy to check the box and say that she "tried" before painting you as the villain and divorcing you with prejudice. I've said it before but if that's the outcome, I'm at peace with that. I've made it clear that in order for me to feel close to her, sex is an important part of the relationship. If she would rather leave then have sex that's a valid choice on her part. |
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Post by h on Sept 20, 2023 14:30:38 GMT -5
My thoughts on this are less optimistic. Maybe she's going to individual therapy to check the box and say that she "tried" before painting you as the villain and divorcing you with prejudice. I've said it before but if that's the outcome, I'm at peace with that. I've made it clear that in order for me to feel close to her, sex is an important part of the relationship. If she would rather leave then have sex that's a valid choice on her part. You should be prepared for that just in case. She may take this opportunity to try and blindside you. She could also try to hurt your relationships with others in the process to isolate you from support. Sometimes people really go for the throat when they sense your tolerance of their mistreatment is coming to an end. |
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