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Post by Apocrypha on Oct 9, 2023 10:26:30 GMT -5
I recommend you speak to a lawyer about this financial strategy. Most jurisdictions I've seen require total disclosure and have means of assessing this, including tax records, attestations that your statements are truthful. The penalties of withholding may work against you. I'm not withholding. She knows about all the accounts. I would freely offer up all my records to her lawyers if we go that route. I'm only keeping it away from her access so she doesn't spend it all on junk. I also have records of her financial irresponsibility if this gets nasty. It's not even a large portion of my income. The majority of it still goes to a joint account that I pay most of our bills from. Sorry, I misunderstood when you said "I'm trying to stack up a cushion in my favor so I have somewhere to negotiate from. (Give her the upfront cash and take on more of the debt in exchange for lower alimony or waiving a claim on my retirement.)" I read it like you believed that saving money in a different account that she didn't have access to would benefit you in a negotiation with her, like "giving her upfront cash" that she likely is already entitled to take. If it's not that and it's just so you both have access to a larger pool of money to split, then that's less likely. I was quite surprised by the extent of entitlement my ex-wife had in my jurisdiction. |
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Post by toughtiger on Oct 9, 2023 11:04:41 GMT -5
Gotta wonder. Bickering spouses would pull away from gestures like that. A divorce happens, they'll assume it's because you're the refuser or he did some ordinary thing that made you less than amorous. What would happen if a refuser pulls a charade Public Display of Affection, and the refused raises the bet? He holds your hand, turn on him with wild eyes and soul kiss him right there. Later, goose him if he passes by. He wants to look like a healthy married couple? Fine, you can pretend too. You're going for that "newlywed" vibe. Why does the refuser get to pick which bullshit you convey? Not so easy for the counter-refusing ILIASM members who'd find this mischief repulsive, I suppose. I used to do what you suggested......... the respond affectionately and he was freaking out his Pretend was not suppose to work ...........i guess only a show for others..... perhaps my response is not great .....but the underlying fact his fake PDA is not about US .... not about rekindling what was.........it is about playing a part for sometimes people we do not see regularly or give a hoot about...... if he was honest and said lets snuggle so we look happy to perfect strangers i could decide if i want to be an Actress... or not |
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Post by h on Oct 9, 2023 18:44:52 GMT -5
I'm not withholding. She knows about all the accounts. I would freely offer up all my records to her lawyers if we go that route. I'm only keeping it away from her access so she doesn't spend it all on junk. I also have records of her financial irresponsibility if this gets nasty. It's not even a large portion of my income. The majority of it still goes to a joint account that I pay most of our bills from. Sorry, I misunderstood when you said "I'm trying to stack up a cushion in my favor so I have somewhere to negotiate from. (Give her the upfront cash and take on more of the debt in exchange for lower alimony or waiving a claim on my retirement.)" I read it like you believed that saving money in a different account that she didn't have access to would benefit you in a negotiation with her, like "giving her upfront cash" that she likely is already entitled to take. If it's not that and it's just so you both have access to a larger pool of money to split, then that's less likely. I was quite surprised by the extent of entitlement my ex-wife had in my jurisdiction. That's exactly my position. The more I save in a place that she can't spend, the more there is to split and the more likely she will be satisfied rather than try to get more and drag it out. I'll happily give her 100% of anything I save and take on 100% of her credit card debt if it means a clean break with no responsibilities in perpetuity. If we have nothing to divide up, she will panic about having nothing and draw out the process costing more in legal fees. If we have something that I can sign over free and clear, it may grease the wheels and keep things civil. |
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Post by aquacat on Oct 10, 2023 11:03:37 GMT -5
I made the mistake of asking her yesterday afternoon if before bed she would just touch me, rub on me, etc, to try to meet that intimacy need I crave. She said she would and sounded enthused but when we went to bed I was waiting for it and after she turned out the lights a few minutes passed and she said "Oh yeah, you wanted me to rub on you right?" I tried to tell her to not worry about it as it obviously wasn't important to her but she insisted because she knew it upset me. Even then it was only a minute or two of "Let's get this over with" back rub and she was done.
I can't win.
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m76
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Post by m76 on Oct 10, 2023 11:15:27 GMT -5
I made the mistake of asking her yesterday afternoon if before bed she would just touch me, rub on me, etc, to try to meet that intimacy need I crave. She said she would and sounded enthused but when we went to bed I was waiting for it and after she turned out the lights a few minutes passed and she said "Oh yeah, you wanted me to rub on you right?" I tried to tell her to not worry about it as it obviously wasn't important to her but she insisted because she knew it upset me. Even then it was only a minute or two of "Let's get this over with" back rub and she was done. I can't win. I'm in the same boat. We've talked about how important physical thouch is to me and in those discussions I've accepted that she's asexual and asked her to compromise with a level of touch is comfortable with. Since she's made no effort I'll probably be talking with a lawyer soon, actually I've already reached out for the initial consultation. I think that's what hurts the most, she will go on about how much she loves me but won't make any effort to meet my needs at all. Actions speak louder then words right? |
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Post by toughtiger on Oct 10, 2023 17:23:15 GMT -5
I'm in the same boat. We've talked about how important physical thouch is to me and in those discussions I've accepted that she's asexual and asked her to compromise with a level of touch is comfortable with. Since she's made no effort I'll probably be talking with a lawyer soon, actually I've already reached out for the initial consultation. I think that's what hurts the most, she will go on about how much she loves me but won't make any effort to meet my needs at all. Actions speak louder then words right? Absolutely actions in this are by far louder then words......... I feel the refusing spouse does not even want to do basic touch ... mine acts crazy if i try .... i was always thinking he was avoiding me wanting more but i explained there is a real thing last time he agreed i took off my nightie laid next to him and he literally hugged with his upper torso but dangled his legs lower torso off side of bed......... i think that killed any interest for further compromise. www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/lifetime-connections/202011/skin-hunger-touch-starvation-and-hug-deprivation"The benefits of human touch are many and it can act as a “magic bullet” for emotional distress. Being touched by someone we trust can lessen feelings of isolation, loneliness, stress, anxiety, depression, and sleep disruptions. Not only does physical touch positively affect our emotional wellbeing, but a reassuring touch from another also has physiological benefits, including: Calming the nervous system Boosting dopamine production Positively influencing the serotonin system Spurring production of oxytocin, the bonding hormone Reducing the production of stress hormones (cortisol) Lowering blood pressure and heart rate Improving healing and decrease pain Babies and children who experienced positive physical contact tended to show less aggressive behavior as they grew up. It is hypothesized that these kids didn’t need to engage in physical fighting or conflict to experience physical contact with others. Failure to thrive in infants can often be traced back to inadequate physical touch. Decades ago, researchers found that infant monkeys preferred a soft cloth-covered wire model of a “mother” over a wire model that offered food." |
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diode
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Post by diode on Oct 10, 2023 18:05:54 GMT -5
I'm in the same boat. We've talked about how important physical thouch is to me and in those discussions I've accepted that she's asexual and asked her to compromise with a level of touch is comfortable with. Since she's made no effort I'll probably be talking with a lawyer soon, actually I've already reached out for the initial consultation. I think that's what hurts the most, she will go on about how much she loves me but won't make any effort to meet my needs at all. Actions speak louder then words right? Absolutely actions in this are by far louder then words......... I feel the refusing spouse does not even want to do basic touch ... mine acts crazy if i try .... i was always thinking he was avoiding me wanting more but i explained there is a real thing last time he agreed i took off my nightie laid next to him and he literally hugged with his upper torso but dangled his legs lower torso off side of bed......... i think that killed any interest for further compromise. www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/lifetime-connections/202011/skin-hunger-touch-starvation-and-hug-deprivation"The benefits of human touch are many and it can act as a “magic bullet” for emotional distress. Being touched by someone we trust can lessen feelings of isolation, loneliness, stress, anxiety, depression, and sleep disruptions. Not only does physical touch positively affect our emotional wellbeing, but a reassuring touch from another also has physiological benefits, including: Calming the nervous system Boosting dopamine production Positively influencing the serotonin system Spurring production of oxytocin, the bonding hormone Reducing the production of stress hormones (cortisol) Lowering blood pressure and heart rate Improving healing and decrease pain Babies and children who experienced positive physical contact tended to show less aggressive behavior as they grew up. It is hypothesized that these kids didn’t need to engage in physical fighting or conflict to experience physical contact with others. Failure to thrive in infants can often be traced back to inadequate physical touch. Decades ago, researchers found that infant monkeys preferred a soft cloth-covered wire model of a “mother” over a wire model that offered food." Many of us have married wire monkeys. |
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Post by mirrororchid on Oct 10, 2023 19:25:28 GMT -5
...We've talked about how important physical touch is to me and in those discussions I've accepted that she's asexual and asked her to compromise with a level of touch is comfortable with. Since she's made no effort I'll probably be talking with a lawyer soon, actually I've already reached out for the initial consultation. I think that's what hurts the most, she will go on about how much she loves me but won't make any effort to meet my needs at all. Actions speak louder then words right? Congrats on the consultation. No matter what course you take, Stay, Outsource, Leave... knowledge is, at worst, harmless. Does she love you? Quite possibly! Like a sister loves her brother! That's a lot! It's a terrific thing! But..... There are supposedly five love languages. If she's perfect at four out of five, but gets an F in the fifth. That's 80%. That's a B- spouse, if she absolutely nails all four. She loves you? Well, yeah. But would her love be enough to marry her? Is it enough to stay? A lot of refusers find out the answer was "No." Does she meet no needs? That may be where she gets the idea that she's a good wife. She goes unappreciated for her B- effort. Again, that's only if she absolutely aces "Acts of Service", Gifts, Words of Affirmation, and Quality Time. We can respect the effort, even as we regretfully explain, it's not enough. Marriage is more than 4 out of 5. Every other relationship is allowed to supply the four love languages that refusers are unwilling to give. |
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m76
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Post by m76 on Oct 11, 2023 9:46:28 GMT -5
So I talked with a lawyer, the biggest issue will be that I have retirement savings that I got when I left the government and cashed out my retirement. She's entitled to half of that since it's a matrimonial asset. She won't be collecting her pension until after she retires so it would be another legal battle for me to go after half that if she claims half my retirement savings.
Also if she goes after those savings it would also be taxed on withdraw at close to 50%.
So my happiness now may destroy my retirement later. Ugh
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Post by toughtiger on Oct 11, 2023 12:49:31 GMT -5
So I talked with a lawyer, the biggest issue will be that I have retirement savings that I got when I left the government and cashed out my retirement. She's entitled to half of that since it's a matrimonial asset. She won't be collecting her pension until after she retires so it would be another legal battle for me to go after half that if she claims half my retirement savings. Also if she goes after those savings it would also be taxed on withdraw at close to 50%. So my happiness now may destroy my retirement later. Ugh I get it this is the reality of most looking at divorce or staying.... how much are we willing to give up financially. No matter how civil a marriage is or such lawyers bring out the worst...and the longer the fight the more you end up losing in legal fees |
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Post by mirrororchid on Oct 11, 2023 18:30:18 GMT -5
So I talked with a lawyer, the biggest issue will be that I have retirement savings that I got when I left the government and cashed out my retirement. She's entitled to half of that since it's a matrimonial asset. She won't be collecting her pension until after she retires so it would be another legal battle for me to go after half that if she claims half my retirement savings. Also if she goes after those savings it would also be taxed on withdraw at close to 50%. So my happiness now may destroy my retirement later. Ugh If it helps to think about it this way, your wife can wait and get 50% of the non-penalized retirement money in the future, or take half of it now and end up with a third. Just because she withdraws it and gets punished, doesn't mean you do. It makes no difference to your finances if she's dumb with her share of the money now. You end up with the same total at the end. I'd imagine a judge would see fit to split her pension as well or take it into account giving her less than half of your retirement, but all her pension. Also realize if you date someone new, you need not pair up with a destitute woman. You can find someone with half of her husband's money (or all of her own) and end up pretty much breaking even. Refused spouses see themselves as living on half of everything they used to own. That can be true, if you stay permanently single or marry a homeless person; not that I hope for divorce. I'd rather she came to her senses and break your celibacy one way or another. Part of that may result from you being willing to go all in though. Many a refuser doesn't budge until the refused has one foot out the door at a brisk jog. |
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Post by heelots on Oct 11, 2023 18:30:45 GMT -5
So I talked with a lawyer, the biggest issue will be that I have retirement savings that I got when I left the government and cashed out my retirement. She's entitled to half of that since it's a matrimonial asset. She won't be collecting her pension until after she retires so it would be another legal battle for me to go after half that if she claims half my retirement savings. Also if she goes after those savings it would also be taxed on withdraw at close to 50%. So my happiness now may destroy my retirement later. Ugh I get it this is the reality of most looking at divorce or staying.... how much are we willing to give up financially. No matter how civil a marriage is or such lawyers bring out the worst...and the longer the fight the more you end up losing in legal fees Yup, this is why I stay |
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Post by h on Oct 11, 2023 21:00:58 GMT -5
I made the mistake of asking her yesterday afternoon if before bed she would just touch me, rub on me, etc, to try to meet that intimacy need I crave. She said she would and sounded enthused but when we went to bed I was waiting for it and after she turned out the lights a few minutes passed and she said "Oh yeah, you wanted me to rub on you right?" I tried to tell her to not worry about it as it obviously wasn't important to her but she insisted because she knew it upset me. Even then it was only a minute or two of "Let's get this over with" back rub and she was done. I can't win. I'm of the opinion that if she's not interested in having sex with me, I don't want her to touch me either. I haven't asked her for literally anything at all in years. |
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Post by heelots on Oct 12, 2023 17:04:01 GMT -5
I made the mistake of asking her yesterday afternoon if before bed she would just touch me, rub on me, etc, to try to meet that intimacy need I crave. She said she would and sounded enthused but when we went to bed I was waiting for it and after she turned out the lights a few minutes passed and she said "Oh yeah, you wanted me to rub on you right?" I tried to tell her to not worry about it as it obviously wasn't important to her but she insisted because she knew it upset me. Even then it was only a minute or two of "Let's get this over with" back rub and she was done. I can't win. I'm of the opinion that if she's not interested in having sex with me, I don't want her to touch me either. I haven't asked her for literally anything at all in years. Yes, absolutely! That is me too! |
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Post by aquacat on Oct 13, 2023 7:39:34 GMT -5
I'm in that same boat financially, and because we moved to a different state even if I was to look now, I'd have to wait a while due to residency requirements.
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