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Post by blunder8 on Apr 4, 2023 9:30:27 GMT -5
blunder8 , did you get a wild sexfest at first? blunder8, was your wife seeing a therapist before the reset like mine was?[/quote] Yes, although "wild" is a relative term, I would say when the reset occurred we needed air traffic control to direct the flying underwear. Was a great six weeks! Like you, now settled into a pattern....every 10-14 day occurrence. I would enjoy more frequently, but it's an exponential leap better than it was, so I'm not complaining. No, she was not seeing a therapist. She was/is invested in learning about the effects of SM. She didn't like the future she was learning about and retooled the relationship. Our relationship went from "on the edge"to "strong" quickly. Four months now.
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Post by shamwow on Apr 4, 2023 17:27:07 GMT -5
Baza's advice it right on point. Have your plan ready and know your options and be ready to put that plan in place if you need to. Work on yourself in the meantime and be the best person that you can be, not for anyone else but for yourself. Reconnect with your friends and family. Be in a good place mentally, physically and emotionally. That way, if you have to put your plan in action, you are more than comfortable doing so and more than comfortable with yourself being in that position. Just having a plan doesn't mean you ever have to use it, but it's there if and when you need it. I was in a similar boat as you - married 20 plus years, sexless marriage for five plus years (and by sexless I mean not one time in five years). I tried everything, including marital counseling for years. Once we went to separate beds, we never went back and we were never intimate again. I stayed for maybe two years in that scenario, almost exclusively because of my kids, but I had a plan all laid out in the event we couldn't reconcile and I was no longer willing to be in that position. When she quit counseling and I realized I was the only one still trying to save the marriage and any sort of intimacy, I pulled the plug and put my plan in action. I engaged my attorney, filed divorce paperwork, rented an apartment that I had identified in advance and once I had a custody agreement in place (and only then!), I moved out and began moving on with my life. I think it shocked her, but I was done dealing with someone who didn't want to be in a relationship that involved communication and intimacy. Now, I'm two years removed from my sexless marriage. I'm in a long distance relationship with the woman I dated for about three years before I married my ex-wife. It's be a lot of fun to reconnect with someone I hadn't talked to in 25 plus years. She lives in a great city and is an amazing woman. We are perfect for each other and she is everything my ex-wife wasn't. You will be amazed when you find someone who values a physical, emotional and intimate connection as much as you do. We both had long-term marriages that didn't work out, we both see why, and we both vowed that we won't let that happen again. The communication is amazing, the intimacy is fun and spontaneous and not always about the sex - but that's wonderful too. It's absolutely refreshing and while a long distance relationship is work, we both agree that it's well worth it. My ex, on the other hand is angry, bitter, manipulative and will likely spend the rest of her life blaming me for the end of our marriage. She hasn't been honest with my kids or her friends or relatives or likely even herself at this point. I've made my peace with that and you should be ready for that type of behavior. Sadly 20 plus years of marriage and she can't act like an adult and communicate, but she couldn't during our marriage either and I see that clearly now. We aren't going to be friends. She refuses to co-parent or communicate about our children. She won't even call her attorney back. It has certainly created some difficulty with my children and I try to keep them from being in the middle, however she has chosen to use them as weapons. Sad, but true. However, given all of that and the past two years of crap dealing with my ex, I would still do it all over again and file for divorce as I am so much happier now. I lived each day in constant stress over my sexless marriage, walking on eggshells in my own home, feeling constantly alone in my struggle. That's all a distant memory now and things are so much more calm, peaceful and happy in my life. My final thought for you is that once either one of you is done fighting for your marriage, it's over and you are just prolonging the agony. A partner withholding intimacy and sex in what is supposed to be a loving, caring marriage is being emotionally abusive and is wielding this power as a weapon. My ex was over the top and I see that now and no one deserves to be put in this position. It's certainly a dark tunnel to have to walk through in order to find the light again, but sometimes divorce is the way to be happy again. It certainly was for me. If I can help in any way, please let me know. I am just under 6 years removed from my SM. It's sometimes hard to reconcile that I used to be that schmuck. It has simply gotten better as more time passes, similar to how you feel immediately after waking from a nightmare compared to later in the day.
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Post by mirrororchid on Apr 5, 2023 5:55:51 GMT -5
blunder8 , did you get a wild sexfest at first?
blunder8 , was your wife seeing a therapist before the reset like mine was?Yes, although "wild" is a relative term, I would say when the reset occurred we needed air traffic control to direct the flying underwear. Was a great six weeks! Like you, now settled into a pattern....every 10-14 day occurrence. I would enjoy more frequently, but it's an exponential leap better than it was, so I'm not complaining. No, she was not seeing a therapist. She was/is invested in learning about the effects of SM. She didn't like the future she was learning about and retooled the relationship. Our relationship went from "on the edge" to "strong" quickly. Four months now. [/quote] Thanks for the data. So the lovefest has simmered down to about teh same pace Mrs. MirrorOrchid started with. Then she scaled back to every three weeks. Every so often, we go past the third week after things like being out of town, sickness, or my father in law's cancer diagnosis. Sh*t happens. Been considering a move to increase intimacy. Can share that in a while. I tell myself I'm making every three weeks the floor of what I'll accept. Would I risk divorce for monthly? Am I the frog in the fictional boiling pot? What about every 37 days, the average of a technically sexless marriage? Curse my hide and my conflict aversion. Seems like I'm a rip the band aid guy. If we're just plucking one arm hair at a time, I don't move on things. Do you track things, Blunder8? Would you know if the schedule was slipping? Are you fine with your internal barometer calling the shots? Do you have a sense of when you'd draw a line again?
Great fun, this conversation, but shoutout to fd1. Didn't mean to hijack the thread, friend. Any updates for us?
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Post by blunder8 on Apr 5, 2023 11:26:01 GMT -5
blunder8 , did you get a wild sexfest at first?
blunder8 , was your wife seeing a therapist before the reset like mine was?Yes, although "wild" is a relative term, I would say when the reset occurred we needed air traffic control to direct the flying underwear. Was a great six weeks! Like you, now settled into a pattern....every 10-14 day occurrence. I would enjoy more frequently, but it's an exponential leap better than it was, so I'm not complaining. No, she was not seeing a therapist. She was/is invested in learning about the effects of SM. She didn't like the future she was learning about and retooled the relationship. Our relationship went from "on the edge" to "strong" quickly. Four months now. Thanks for the data. So the lovefest has simmered down to about teh same pace Mrs. MirrorOrchid started with. Then she scaled back to every three weeks. Every so often, we go past the third week after things like being out of town, sickness, or my father in law's cancer diagnosis. Sh*t happens. Been considering a move to increase intimacy. Can share that in a while. I tell myself I'm making every three weeks the floor of what I'll accept. Would I risk divorce for monthly? Am I the frog in the fictional boiling pot? What about every 37 days, the average of a technically sexless marriage? Curse my hide and my conflict aversion. Seems like I'm a rip the band aid guy. If we're just plucking one arm hair at a time, I don't move on things. Do you track things, Blunder8? Would you know if the schedule was slipping? Are you fine with your internal barometer calling the shots? Do you have a sense of when you'd draw a line again?
Great fun, this conversation, but shoutout to fd1 . Didn't mean to hijack the thread, friend. Any updates for us?[/quote] ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++I have similar thoughts as far as minimum intimacy requirements. There absolutely has to be a minimum, otherwise the need becomes a suggestion or an abstract desire (one of a number of things you never "get around" to doing). For that reason I do keep track in my private journal. At first I felt bad for "scorekeeping" but it helps me to see the trend (I'm a data guy). Perhaps someday there will be no need for this, but I'm still new enough that it helps me. And yes, my internal barometer is pretty darn accurate. Call it primal need or whatever.
I don't obsess over it if we reach a 12 day dry spell. I've focused my efforts on keeping the fires burning between sex days by flirting, naughty talk, and doing my part to compliment her and otherwise be a good partner.
If it starts slipping back to monthly, and then slipping to even less frequently, I will need the help of this board. Working to prevent that slippage from happening.
To your other questions regarding risking marriage over this, I too ponder if I would move on from a 30+ year marriage, now with young grandkids, for not enough (or not satisfying sex). In my case, if the reset is temporary and I'm back in the old desert again, I couldn't follow through with divorce because I don't want to risk separation from my kids and grandkids. I also realize that we're both nearing 60 and health issues are your constant companions, along with caring for elderly parents and a son with an intellectual disability. It may be these combination of factors that make me desire intimacy with my wife more than ever; that need to be connected to her as an escape from the realities of the world. And I'm more determined than ever to hold on and make the reset last.
Mirrororchid, Have you played that out in your mind, if you would get to divorce as an outcome?
My regrets also for derailing the thread. I just wanted to respond to you mirrororchid because it seems like we're in similar circumstances.
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Post by mirrororchid on Apr 5, 2023 13:20:54 GMT -5
I have no grandkids, but I'm still satisfied with my philosophical desire to maintain all my vows except the forsaking all others part, since a stretch of 37 days is the beginning of being forsaken a second time. I'd be telling her the level had sunk to unacceptable levels and I was up for negotiation if she has some ideas for more intimate time but, like before, I do not control the marital bed; she does. Since that is the case, I can only control my own sexuality and if I am to be monogamous, she has to insure I have a lover and this last time, she wanted it to be her. If she still does, she'll have to figure something out. I could not for four years. She did, when she wanted to keep our marriage exclusive. I'd dust off my 2019 plan again. It still seems to be in proper working order, despite being layered with dust. If she wants to divorce rather than share me, that'd be on her. (Baza's warning of legal prep being in mind, this time.) Yes, we are fairly similar. Here's hoping you get at least three years out of the reset too. I've been stunned at how long it has lasted and we still seem pretty good. I'll be curious about any reasons for your wife's reset if you ever find out. I understand not wanting to jinx it, though.
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Post by blunder8 on Apr 15, 2023 11:17:28 GMT -5
I have no grandkids, but I'm still satisfied with my philosophical desire to maintain all my vows except the forsaking all others part, since a stretch of 37 days is the beginning of being forsaken a second time. I'd be telling her the level had sunk to unacceptable levels and I was up for negotiation if she has some ideas for more intimate time but, like before, I do not control the marital bed; she does. Since that is the case, I can only control my own sexuality and if I am to be monogamous, she has to insure I have a lover and this last time, she wanted it to be her. If she still does, she'll have to figure something out. I could not for four years. She did, when she wanted to keep our marriage exclusive. I'd dust off my 2019 plan again. It still seems to be in proper working order, despite being layered with dust. If she wants to divorce rather than share me, that'd be on her. (Baza's warning of legal prep being in mind, this time.) Yes, we are fairly similar. Here's hoping you get at least three years out of the reset too. I've been stunned at how long it has lasted and we still seem pretty good. I'll be curious about any reasons for your wife's reset if you ever find out. I understand not wanting to jinx it, though. The reason for the reset is really simple. I made her my roommate. I became as disinterested in her as she was in sex with me. I became savagely unemotional, don't give a shit as possible. She stared into that future and it scared her into change. Will it last? Don't know yet. I have pondered other factors in our favor and written an essay....in time I'll share these thoughts, if I feel this is "permanent." I'm not there yet.
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Post by mirrororchid on Apr 17, 2023 5:54:32 GMT -5
The reason for the reset is really simple. I made her my roommate. I became as disinterested in her as she was in sex with me. I became savagely unemotional, don't give a shit as possible. She stared into that future and it scared her into change. Will it last? Don't know yet. I have pondered other factors in our favor and written an essay....in time I'll share these thoughts, if I feel this is "permanent." I'm not there yet. Does sound scary. I think some members may have gone to that level, but their spouses either responded in kind, or didn't notice. I suspect the spouse is responsible for the reset or not. Both of us had dire threats to present: tolerating a mistress, or business partnership and both decided to bend. So we might ask... what makes a spouse flexible rather than inclined to dig heels in? Or go nuclear?
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Post by heelots on Apr 17, 2023 5:54:41 GMT -5
I have no grandkids, but I'm still satisfied with my philosophical desire to maintain all my vows except the forsaking all others part, since a stretch of 37 days is the beginning of being forsaken a second time. I'd be telling her the level had sunk to unacceptable levels and I was up for negotiation if she has some ideas for more intimate time but, like before, I do not control the marital bed; she does. Since that is the case, I can only control my own sexuality and if I am to be monogamous, she has to insure I have a lover and this last time, she wanted it to be her. If she still does, she'll have to figure something out. I could not for four years. She did, when she wanted to keep our marriage exclusive. I'd dust off my 2019 plan again. It still seems to be in proper working order, despite being layered with dust. If she wants to divorce rather than share me, that'd be on her. (Baza's warning of legal prep being in mind, this time.) Yes, we are fairly similar. Here's hoping you get at least three years out of the reset too. I've been stunned at how long it has lasted and we still seem pretty good. I'll be curious about any reasons for your wife's reset if you ever find out. I understand not wanting to jinx it, though. The reason for the reset is really simple. I made her my roommate. I became as disinterested in her as she was in sex with me. I became savagely unemotional, don't give a shit as possible. She stared into that future and it scared her into change. Will it last? Don't know yet. I have pondered other factors in our favor and written an essay....in time I'll share these thoughts, if I feel this is "permanent." I'm not there yet. You lucked out. I did the same thing with my roommate and it didn't phase her in the least. She could care less, not then, not now. The girl has a pair of cast iron nuts! 🤣
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Post by blunder8 on Apr 17, 2023 9:32:47 GMT -5
The reason for the reset is really simple. I made her my roommate. I became as disinterested in her as she was in sex with me. I became savagely unemotional, don't give a shit as possible. She stared into that future and it scared her into change. Will it last? Don't know yet. I have pondered other factors in our favor and written an essay....in time I'll share these thoughts, if I feel this is "permanent." I'm not there yet. You lucked out. I did the same thing with my roommate and it didn't phase her in the least. She could care less, not then, not now. The girl has a pair of cast iron nuts! 🤣 Yeah, I guess individual differences in people really matter. Mine has a highly emotional nature that i was able to *influence* to change the trajectory of things. In my case, I employed the roommate strategy as a way of forcing a conversation and a possible change (it worked!) and second, as a possible new permanent way of life and way to cope. Dammit...I should have done this many years ago! I was in the mode of trying to solve the riddle for far too long.
I've been admonished on this forum to not recommend the "roommate strategy" to others as a way of fixing things. So I don't. But, it's my story and, against the odds, it worked for me.
I know you have recommended the roommate strategy simply as a way to reclaim your dignity and sanity (and I agree). Imagine it works well daily, when you only interact with one another ("good morning"...under your breath: "fuck off"). How awkward does it get when you have to interact at family events or social occasions? Do you just pretend or are you outwardly adversaries in social settings?
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Post by blunder8 on Apr 17, 2023 9:48:20 GMT -5
Does sound scary. I think some members may have gone to that level, but their spouses either responded in kind, or didn't notice. I suspect the spouse is responsible for the reset or not. Both of us had dire threats to present: tolerating a mistress, or business partnership and both decided to bend. So we might ask... what makes a spouse flexible rather than inclined to dig heels in? Or go nuclear? It was a a roll of the dice, but you know what they say about desperate times. I wasn't ready to burn down the house (marriage) quite yet, but something needed to happen.
I have been cautioned by others on this forum not to recommend the "make them your roommate" strategy as a way of fixing things. So I don't recommend it for that. I do recommend it for reclaiming one's dignity, sanity, sense of control....that is, if you are staying.
I got lucky when it actually worked in resetting the relationship, both sex and otherwise.
To your question, I suppose the refusing spouses vary in how they view their partner, either as someone worth re-evaluating and investing into, or someone they would rather not be in the same room with. I guess I got lucky in that my wife still saw something in me worth continuing the journey.
As I write this, I don't feel I'm out of the desert yet. I'm still in fear this is an elaborate reset that will gradually dissolve back into SM. At least I'll have a roommate.
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Post by northstarmom on Apr 17, 2023 11:59:59 GMT -5
When I treated my refuser as a roommate, including moving out of the bedroom, he never reacted. It ended up that he wanted to end the marriage but was too cowardly to tell me. When I finally said I wanted a divorce, he immediately agreed.
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Post by heelots on Apr 17, 2023 16:23:52 GMT -5
You lucked out. I did the same thing with my roommate and it didn't phase her in the least. She could care less, not then, not now. The girl has a pair of cast iron nuts! 🤣 Yeah, I guess individual differences in people really matter. Mine has a highly emotional nature that i was able to *influence* to change the trajectory of things. In my case, I employed the roommate strategy as a way of forcing a conversation and a possible change (it worked!) and second, as a possible new permanent way of life and way to cope. Dammit...I should have done this many years ago! I was in the mode of trying to solve the riddle for far too long.
I've been admonished on this forum to not recommend the "roommate strategy" to others as a way of fixing things. So I don't. But, it's my story and, against the odds, it worked for me.
I know you have recommended the roommate strategy simply as a way to reclaim your dignity and sanity (and I agree). Imagine it works well daily, when you only interact with one another ("good morning"...under your breath: "fuck off"). How awkward does it get when you have to interact at family events or social occasions? Do you just pretend or are you outwardly adversaries in social settings?Family gatherings and other functions never pose an issue at all. My wife has always been a cold fish from day one and has never shown any more signs of affection around others than she did in private. Put blunt, my wife has never been a warm and affectionate person.
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Post by northstarmom on Apr 17, 2023 17:55:16 GMT -5
heelots: "Family gatherings and other functions never pose an issue at all. My wife has always been a cold fish from day one and has never shown any more signs of affection around others than she did in private. Put blunt, my wife has never been a warm and affectionate person."
What attracted you to her despite her coldness?
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Post by heelots on Apr 17, 2023 19:16:50 GMT -5
heelots: "Family gatherings and other functions never pose an issue at all. My wife has always been a cold fish from day one and has never shown any more signs of affection around others than she did in private. Put blunt, my wife has never been a warm and affectionate person." What attracted you to her despite her coldness? Looking back I think I was scared I was getting too old to find a wife to have kids with. I married at 36. I think I must have stupidly chosen to just not notice it! That's all I can figure out for my extreme act of stupidity in marrying her to begin with. You can bet I wish I could do that over!
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Post by blunder8 on Apr 17, 2023 21:28:24 GMT -5
heelots: "Family gatherings and other functions never pose an issue at all. My wife has always been a cold fish from day one and has never shown any more signs of affection around others than she did in private. Put blunt, my wife has never been a warm and affectionate person." What attracted you to her despite her coldness? Looking back I think I was scared I was getting to old to find a wife to have kids with. I married at 36. I think I must have stupidly chosen to just not notice it! That's all I can figure out for my extreme act of stupidity in marrying her to begin with. You can bet I wish I could do that over! ±++++++++++++++++++++ Maybe after everyone has high speed internet they will roll out the time machine and you'll get your do-over.
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