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Post by baza on Jun 7, 2016 21:34:06 GMT -5
Brother unmatched thread "What will it take to push you over the edge ?" has prompted this offering. Thought I'd open a new thread rather than barge into his. - It was interesting to note in that thread that where the respondents stayed on topic, various possible dealbreakers were floated. Infidelity, financial irresponsibility, abuse, to name just a few. - Interestingly, I didn't see one that said - "My current situation continuing as it is". The vibe I got was that for these people, is that they feel it is going to have to get worse than it currently is before they'll act. - But personally, I think the most likely thing that is going to tip you over is the continued accrual of toxins from your present situation. Rather akin to chinese water torture. The 98,134th droplet of water you are ok with, but the 98,135th droplet is the one that tips you over. In other words, it won't be something new and additional that tips you over, rather it will be the accrual of "more of the same". And that, is going to take time, and in our common situations, time is your enemy. - My proposition is, that many of the "thinking about leaving" section of the membership, HAVE already reached "dealbreaker" status, but have not yet recognised that fact, and a few more months of the existing situation will prove to be water droplet 98,135 - without anything EXTRA (like infidelity, financial irresponsibility, abuse etc) in to the equation. - So here's my theory (and feel free to kick the shit out of it). Most of those in the "thinking about leaving" group already have enough information about their situation to make their next choice ... (usually to gravitate toward the those actively planning on getting out) They don't actually need EXTRA proof, or an additional dramatic event. And in truth, unless there has been infidelity, financial irresponsibility, abuse etc in play already, the chances of that emerging out of nowhere are not high. So waiting for an "extra" to happen is far more likely to result in burning more time. Time. The enemy.
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Post by obobfla on Jun 7, 2016 21:43:24 GMT -5
For me, it was never not wanting to leave. I have for awhile. But I have a commitment to my son, and I do not want to see the mother of my son destitute. It's more of not believing it is possible. Just being in this group though has shown me that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, if you will excuse the cliche.
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Post by DryCreek on Jun 7, 2016 21:55:06 GMT -5
That's a fair analysis, baza. While I put myself in the "staying" camp, it's really the "trying to stay" camp. Thus, the potential for deal breakers. But as you point out, why isn't status-quo a deal breaker? When the pot is only 0.1 degree hotter than it was a minute ago, well... who would leave for such a minor thing? But when is it "too much"? And what's magical about that breaking point? (And why, in retrospect, do we always realize the breaking point should have been so much earlier.) It's much more black-and-white (I hesitate to say "easier") when there is a defining moment. An outburst, or a revelation. An event that pushes the tipping point definitively. And then... there is reaching a conclusion vs. acting on it - milestones that may be years apart, with very different tipping points. I expect this land "In Between" is where many of the "thinking about leaving" find themselves. DC
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Post by jim44444 on Jun 7, 2016 22:12:46 GMT -5
baza, I think your thoughts align with my last deal breaker 5. My mindset changing to say "fuck it".
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2016 22:53:34 GMT -5
This is exactly what happened in the relatively minor spat I told about in the deal breaker thread. I don't even remember the details, but it wasn't an especially big blowup or even a blowup at all. We'd had much worse. Nothing to distinguish this from a hundred other stupid snippy resentful arguments. But this was the one.
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Post by baza on Jun 8, 2016 3:51:59 GMT -5
Brother unmatched thread "What will it take to push you over the edge ?" has prompted this offering. Thought I'd open a new thread rather than barge into his. - It was interesting to note in that thread that where the respondents stayed on topic, various possible dealbreakers were floated. Infidelity, financial irresponsibility, abuse, to name just a few. - Interestingly, I didn't see one that said - "My current situation continuing as it is". The vibe I got was that for these people, is that they feel it is going to have to get worse than it currently is before they'll act. - But personally, I think the most likely thing that is going to tip you over is the continued accrual of toxins from your present situation. Rather akin to chinese water torture. The 98,134th droplet of water you are ok with, but the 98,135th droplet is the one that tips you over. In other words, it won't be something new and additional that tips you over, rather it will be the accrual of "more of the same". And that, is going to take time, and in our common situations, time is your enemy. - My proposition is, that many of the "thinking about leaving" section of the membership, HAVE already reached "dealbreaker" status, but have not yet recognised that fact, and a few more months of the existing situation will prove to be water droplet 98,135 - without anything EXTRA (like infidelity, financial irresponsibility, abuse etc) in to the equation. - So here's my theory (and feel free to kick the shit out of it). Most of those in the "thinking about leaving" group already have enough information about their situation to make their next choice (usually moving on to the "actively working on leaving" group) They don't actually need EXTRA proof, or an additional dramatic event. And in truth, unless there has been infidelity, financial irresponsibility, abuse etc in play already, the chances of that emerging out of nowhere are not high. So waiting for an "extra" to happen is far more likely to result in burning more time. Time. The enemy.
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Post by petrushka on Jun 8, 2016 4:14:55 GMT -5
What tipped it over the edge with my first marriage is so trivial, so minor (one might think) it's almost silly.
V. had gone off on a break to the South Island NZ with one of our WWoOFers (willing workers on organic farms). I didn't mind that. We made a deal she'd get 4 weeks, then I'd get 4 weeks. No way could we both go at the same time.
Right, so she comes back from the holiday. I drove 4 1/2 hours to pick her up from the airport, but she didn't want me to come all the way, so I went to pick her up from the airport bus.
So picture this: she gets off the bus. I crack a big smile, rush over and give her a big bear hug and a kiss on the cheek - and she hisses at me: "not in public!".
Not in the fucking public? At a bus stop where people who haven't seen each other for a month give each other hugs and kisses all the time? At that moment I knew I was done. We separated a week later - she asked if I wanted to go on (I must've gone a bit detached (?))and I just shook my head. 3 months later (she stayed on to help me catch up on the work) she was gone.
B.t.w. she was not a refuser of sex. Au contraire. But I could not handle the continued hot-cold, hot-cold games, she played me like a yo-yo. I used to say: I gave her my heart, and she handed it back to me, sliced and diced, on a silver platter. Over and over.
Such a trivial moment, but it was the final drop in the barrel.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2016 8:03:44 GMT -5
As shitty as it seems now.... I can't see it getting better after a divorce... just i would lose most of my stuff. I was lousy at dating and couldn't get laid to save my life before marriage so I have decided to keep all my stuff... with no promise of every getting laid, in or out of marriage... I have chosen to keep the quarter million dollars I would prob lose in a divorce... but all her shit has me very disconnected from her... I another one of those periods right now....
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Post by nyartgal on Jun 8, 2016 8:07:14 GMT -5
My tipping point was after 5+ years of my ex saying he was "working on it," it being our marriage, our sex life, his ED, his anger, our taxes, his work situation, etc, I asked him point blank to tell me three things he had done in the past month to work on our marriage that I hadn't forced him to do or that we hadn't done together. He couldn't come up with ONE.
Next day I kicked his ass out.
Of course, I knew he hadn't done anything and was full of crap for a loooooooong time. But it wasn't until that conversation that I realized how batshit crazy *I* must be to stay in such a dead relationship.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2016 9:39:33 GMT -5
My tipping point was after 5+ years of my ex saying he was "working on it," it being our marriage, our sex life, his ED, his anger, our taxes, his work situation, etc, I asked him point plant to tell me three things he had done in the past month to work on our marriage that I hadn't forced him to do or that we hadn't done together. He couldn't come up with ONE. Next day I kicked his ass out. Of course, I knew he hadn't done anything and was full of crap for a loooooooong time. But it wasn't until that conversation that I realized how batshit crazy *I* must be to stay in such a dead relationship. Your ex might be related to my ex. I spent about 3 years trying everything I could think of to get him to do the things he needed to do to solve his health problems, which he stated were the reason for the lack of sex. Of course you all know how effective that is. There's a point at which he would have to do something - I couldn't do it all for him. And I'm realizing now - no, it wasn't only the lack of sex. He was shutting me out emotionally. He would do that thing where the person just gets really quiet and won't respond to your attempts to have a conversation. And - to stay on topic - what pushed me over the edge? When I reminded him that we had both said we were going to "try" (to improve our situation) - and he basically said he was already "trying" as much as he was going to. He wasn't going to put any more effort into it than he already was. He said (and I do remember this verbatim) that he had other priorities.
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Post by nyartgal on Jun 8, 2016 9:55:59 GMT -5
And - to stay on topic - what pushed me over the edge? When I reminded him that we had both said we were going to "try" (to improve our situation) - and he basically said he was already "trying" as much as he was going to. He wasn't going to put any more effort into it than he already was. He said (and I do remember this verbatim) that he had other priorities. Yep, they must be cousins. After my ex left he told me, "I know what you want, I just don't think I can give it to you." I came to understand that his position was "take it or leave it." He wasn't going to do anything about anything whether I was happy, ambivalent or suicidal over it. So passive aggressive, just textbook. He did once, towards the end, tell me something that I thought was incredibly illuminating (this was after 5 years of therapy, what was he using all those hours for??). He old me that the definition of love to him was sacrifice. In other words, I should sacrifice my needs or desires for the "good" of the marriage. I was like, omg, that is NOT my definition at all! Sure would have helped if he had told me that BEFORE we got married!!!
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Post by JMX on Jun 8, 2016 10:23:12 GMT -5
Ha! nyartgal - my husband told our 13 year old DAUGHTER just last month that - "the purpose of life was procreation". Yeah, I would have preferred to know that little nugget before we got married, although, I am glad both of my girls are here.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2016 10:43:03 GMT -5
Fuck sacrifice! (she said ironically) I am one of those people who sees very little that's admirable about sacrifice.
Unless this is a wartime situation and your sacrifice will save other people's lives - don't be a hero. Martyrs tend to be sanctimonious and annoying as hell.
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Post by GeekGoddess on Jun 8, 2016 11:05:04 GMT -5
I don't understand why the "sacrifice" folks won't sacrifice their celibacy. What's wrong with that proposition? Or sacrifice their expectation of monogamy on my part - - - if they want sacrifice. What if I think my definition of love includes indulgence of a partner's whims, wants, desires? Should we alternate definitions? Oh - - we should have talked about it before marriage? Yeah - that might have helped.
On topic - I agree with the water torture theory. For my experience - - my dawning awareness of the droplets was a major factor. It was like the drops (of derision) had been falling on my head for years but I had not really noticed them. Then I felt the drip-drip-drip and looked up to investigate and found - - - not life shitting on my head, but my spouse actively dropping bird poop on me. As my eyes cleared, I realized he was not in control of this action. His acrimony would have taken years to clear away and I did not have the time for that.
I went from "something feels wrong" to "get the F out" very quickly once I could see the source of the water droplets. I live where it is dry now. I much prefer the solitude without expectations, rather than having my days filled with unmet needs.
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Post by nyartgal on Jun 8, 2016 12:10:22 GMT -5
All of this supports my theory that the tipping point isn't (usually) about the refuser. How often is there an event that changes things? No, the tipping point is self-realization. Either that we don't have to put up with it anymore, we don't love the person, we love someone else, we aren't waiting any longer for a miracle, we deserve better, we won't survive another minute of the relationship, etc.
At the end I had these words running through my head nonstop, almost hysterically: "I have to save myself from a lifetime of unhappiness, I have to save myself from a lifetime of unhappiness, I have to save myself from a lifetime of unhappiness." It wasn't about him, nothing changed there---it was about me.
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