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Post by jim44444 on Feb 4, 2022 21:26:40 GMT -5
... I'm really not sure how to reach a more equal balance of power though. I'm NOT the kind of guy who interested in having power over other people. I'm a live and let live type. You do not need to have power over your wife. You need to only have power over yourself. Take back control and dominion of you. You could start by telling her you are meeting a friend, do not ask permission. When she tries to veto your plan then calmly explain you are meeting your friend. Do not engage in any compromise, appeasement, argument or explanation. State your truth and let her rant if she wishes, not up to you to control her. |
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Post by theexplorer on Feb 9, 2022 16:26:15 GMT -5
Thanks Jim for this explanation. I understand what you are saying now. I'll try it!!
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Post by northstarmom on Feb 9, 2022 18:40:10 GMT -5
greatcoastal: "My now ex girlfriend ( Rafaela) had a new customer (Rafaela cleans houses) that is a bad influence all around....
This was when I veto over who she associates with. Telling her " you deserve a much better friend than that. Not someone who's going to use you, take you for your money, and manipulate you. You need a mentor a friend who you can see by their life and actions knows how to have a happy, full, meaningful life, she aint it! Side note: I wonder if this woman poisoned her mind to ending her relationship with me ? I may never know.
When you're dealing with an adult who needs some "parental guidance?" there are those times when it's okay to step in before it's to late. Do you agree?"
I don't agree. If a prospective partner needs my "parental guidance" to avoid friendships that are bad for them, they are not a suitable partner for me. I want to be a romantic partner of a person mature enough to have friends who won't put them in danger. Someone who needs a parental figure to help them choose appropriate friends, is not someone I'd choose to be with.
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Post by northstarmom on Feb 9, 2022 18:46:34 GMT -5
Jim44444 said: "You do not need to have power over your wife. You need to only have power over yourself. Take back control and dominion of you. You could start by telling her you are meeting a friend, do not ask permission. When she tries to veto your plan then calmly explain you are meeting your friend. Do not engage in any compromise, appeasement, argument or explanation. State your truth and let her rant if she wishes, not up to you to control her."
Theexplorer said he'd be willing to "try" this. If all you are going to do is "try," you will fail because you're acting as if she really has the power to keep you from having and seeing and communicating with friends. Unless she is doing something like holding you home at gunpoint, you have the power to have whatever friendships you choose to have. It's not cheating to have male or female friends. Being married doesn't mean you are obligated to tell your wife about all of your friendships or to give her veto power over them. And if your wife gets jealous if you have any friendships, then she, not you, has the emotional problem. She's insecure or controling, and those are problems for her to deal with by changing her own behavior and/or perspective. She can choose to be a hermit but that doesn't obligate you to join her. That's not what it means to be in a healthy marriage or relationship.
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Post by theexplorer on Feb 17, 2022 14:08:11 GMT -5
Thanks for the thoughts, Northstarmom. You have some good advice.
I've thought about this matter a great deal over the last few days. I think the real issue is I need to be in a position where I could leave the marriage. My wife controls me by threatening to divorce me. She knows divorce would devastate me, while having minimal effect on her. (I would lose most of my retirement and could be stuck with life time alimony.) Knowing that leaving is an option would make me feel a LOT better!!!
I need to speak with a divorce attorney again. Several significant things in my life have changed since the previous consultation. It may be that leaving would be a more practical option now. Last time, I was told that it was guaranteed that she would be awarded lifetime alimony. Due to the changes that have occurred, It may not be that way now. The divorce laws in this jurisdiction are complicated!!
The other epiphany came one evening when I was at my parents home. They have been married for more than 50 years. For most of those years they have been unhappy with each other. For most of that time, they lived essentially separate lives. They have slept in separate bedrooms for decades. Dad would often come home and go straight to bed. In the morning, he would leave shortly after he awoke. After he retired, he started spending more time at home as his health declined. The more time they have spent together, the more miserable they have grown. The epiphany that struck me so forcibly is that in 20 some years, that will be me!!!
It's ironic that on several occasions, I've suggested that my parent separate. They haven't been willing to even consider that option. I suggested that they live in separate homes. That's not an option they will consider either. Then I look in the mirror and think, I'm just like them!! That was deeply, deeply disturbing realization!!
It's time to start preparing for divorce. No idea if I'll go through with it. Being in a position where I COULD divorce her would make me feel a LOT better. Then when she threatens divorce, I can confidently argue with her.
I have to sign off for now. Did not have time to proofread this, but hopefully it is understandable.
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Post by northstarmom on Feb 17, 2022 14:19:52 GMT -5
theexplorer: Your parents' marriage is like my parents' marriage was. They were miserable together and lived completely separate lives, including having separate bedrooms and friends. They were together for decades until my dad died a few years after having strokes and having my mom -- who despised him -- as his main caregiver.
While talking to a lawyer is important so you can know how a divorce would proceed and what assets you'd likely retain, it's also important for you to create a support system for yourself. That could include individual therapy, which could emotionally support you as you establish friendships and recreational activities on your own.
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Post by baza on Feb 17, 2022 18:22:23 GMT -5
Just a reminder. All marriages end. Death or divorce see to that fact. And that applies to marriages "made in heaven" or ILIASM shitholes. If it is divorce, then that can be at your instigation, or it can be at your spouses instigation. In some rare instances it can be by mutual agreement. I am assuming here Brother theexplorer that your missus (who you say - "controls me by threatening to divorce me") has fully checked out that option and is prepared for that eventuality. Of course it is possible that you spouse has NOT fully checked out that option and is full of shit with nothing to back up her threats. It would be a real good idea for you to fully prepare yourself so you are acting on facts and not threats. |
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Post by mirrororchid on Feb 18, 2022 5:48:12 GMT -5
... I've suggested that my parent separate. They haven't been willing to even consider that option. I suggested that they live in separate homes. That's not an option they will consider either. Then I look in the mirror and think, I'm just like them!! That was deeply, deeply disturbing realization!! It's time to start preparing for divorce. No idea if I'll go through with it. Being in a position where I COULD divorce her would make me feel a LOT better. Then when she threatens divorce, I can confidently argue with her. Superb. Self-knowledge is a richly rewarding experience. If you get ready to divorce, but still find value in maintaining the marriage (e.g. financial advantages), there remains the option of unilaterally opening the marriage. She may prefer to keep the marriage intact too. If not, you lose nothing, since you were ready to pull the pin anyway. When I told Mrs. Mirrororchid I would be outsourcing in two months, she reset. We've had an intimate marriage since December 2019. I was ready to go through whatever idiotic financial self-immolation she would have invoked, if need be. Didn't have to. Others may warn that as soon as you have intimate companionship, you may wonder why you stay with the wife, though. Fair warning. The divorce could end up happening anyway, even though the sexual prison doors are open. |
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Post by theexplorer on Feb 19, 2022 16:40:34 GMT -5
This is an excellent website / forum. Thanks for all of the advice and support. It means a great deal, since I'm uncomfortable talking about these issues with people I know in real life.
Just a quick follow up on my last post. The other reason to investigate divorce is that my wife's health has improved considerably. She was in very poor health for some time. At her low point, her doctor said she had about 6 months to a year left to live. The idea of abandoning her, when she obviously needed me so badly, really troubled me. I just couldn't do it. Financially it made absolutely no sense to leave at that point either.
I have no idea how long she might live now. It will probably be a number of years. She is not 100%, but she is growing stronger every month. From her point of view, her improving health is reason to celebrate. For me, it means the marriage will not be ending as soon as expected. I just can't continue in the current marriage for another 5, 10 or even 20+ years.
I'm planning on talking with a marriage counselor again. It may be possible to turn this marriage into a workable arrangement. I'm not real hopeful, but getting an expert opinion from someone who is more objective would be advisable.
As previously stated, I am also going to be consulting with a divorce attorney. Baza's last line is exactly what needs to happen. I need to know exactly where I stand. As far as my wife, one of her good friends just retired from one of the most prestigious law firms in this region. He was one of the big shots there, so she has access to great legal advice!!
There are a LOT of steps to take before I file for divorce. Like Northstarmom wrote, I need to get a much better support system in place. I strongly suspect my family will side with my wife. Most of my family are part of a religious group that is opposed to divorce.
(Northstarmom, I had not considered what you mentioned about your Mother despising your Father, even though she was his caretaker. That is something to think about! Wow!!)
In addition to a support system, I need to deal with finances, etc. It's going to be a very, very LONG road!!
Got to sign off for now.
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Post by baza on Feb 22, 2022 0:10:07 GMT -5
Some potential tactical suggestions Brother theexplorer . If this firm of lawyers you refer to are that shit hot, then maybe they ought be your first choice to act for you. There's 2 reasons for that - (a) - their apparent expertise in this field (b) - if you get in first and engage them, then they can't act for the other party (your missus) Of course, a nasty surprise could be hidden here - that being you rocking up there and requesting they act for you, only to find that they are acting for the other party (your wife) who has already engaged them to act for her. |
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Post by northstarmom on Feb 22, 2022 1:46:43 GMT -5
Baza's advice is right on target. If you even have a consultation with a lawyer about divorce, they can't represent your wife.
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Post by theexplorer on Feb 24, 2022 13:44:56 GMT -5
Baza & Northstarmom, That is an excellent idea!!! A most superbly excellent idea actually!!! Thanks to both of you!! I will make that one the last steps though. Who knows how many friends the wife has at that law firm. Word could get back to her. I'm guessing that would not be legal, but the wife would NEVER tell me if they told her. She met the guy she knows back in college, so they have known each other for decades. He has told her things "off the record" in the past that could have placed him in serious trouble. So, there is a great deal of trust between the two of them.
I would like to go back to the questions regarding friendships outside the marriage. I have some real basic questions to ask. It may seem elementary to most folks. To understand what is behind my questions, I need to tell a little bit about my past.
I grew up in an ultra-conservative, ultra-religious environment. That specific religious group is quite small. To give some perspective though, they have a number of similarities to the Amish. Calling them conservative is nearly an understatement! I left that group as an adult, before marriage. (My wife has never had any connection to that group.) So my wife and I have come from very different backgrounds.
Growing up in such an environment, had a significant impact on my life. I no longer believe the teachings of that group, nor do I follow their practices. While I have left that group, there is no doubt that living in that environment affected me.
Within that religious group, it is customary for married men to primarily associate with other men and married women to associate with other women. Speaking to a married member of the opposite sex was allowed, but becoming much more than an acquaintance was discouraged.
Besides my background, I'm not a real socially astute guy either. I'm a classic example of a geek!
So my questions are regarding having female friends. If I had a female friend who lived in this area, would spending time alone with her be a bad idea? What would typically be considered appropriate or inappropriate activities with a female friend? I know that living in a mediocre marriage could make it easy for me to fall in love with someone else. How can this be prevented?
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Post by northstarmom on Feb 24, 2022 21:22:03 GMT -5
the explorer: "So my questions are regarding having female friends. If I had a female friend who lived in this area, would spending time alone with her be a bad idea? What would typically be considered appropriate or inappropriate activities with a female friend? I know that living in a mediocre marriage could make it easy for me to fall in love with someone else. How can this be prevented"
It would be easy to fall in love with a female friend because that friend would be offering you the emotional intimacy you don't get from your wife. During my SM, I had friendships with men but only with men whom I knew were gay, whom I didn't feel any sexual attraction to, or who were unable to have sex. (For some reason people have always viewed me as someone whom they could divulge their secrets to. This included men who were impotent). The only men I talked to about my lack of marital sex life were gay men.
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Post by baza on Feb 24, 2022 22:09:08 GMT -5
Quoting you here Brother theexplorer - "If I had a female friend who lived in this area, would spending time alone with her be a bad idea?" I am assuming here that presently there is no other woman, and the above is just theory. It would probably be smart to keep it as just a theory at this point. You have a lot on your plate as far as your ILIASM deal goes, and that probably ought be the main focus. |
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Post by mirrororchid on Feb 25, 2022 5:54:27 GMT -5
Within that religious group, it is customary for married men to primarily associate with other men and married women to associate with other women. Speaking to a married member of the opposite sex was allowed, but becoming much more than an acquaintance was discouraged. Maybe you can harness that early training. If you "click" with a female co-worker or acquaintance, and she's married, you put a mental roadblock from your childhood in front of yourself. You give yourself the advantage that she may be disinclined to flirt. If she does, she may be in your situation and you either use your religious upbringing to refuse being a "homewrecker", perhaps breaking things off, or reconcile your beliefs with your sexless experience and ask whether it makes sense to keep two marriages intact by offering each other respite while keeping the rest of the marital bonds intact. What's appropriate with women? That sounds like your background again. What would you not do with men? Candlelit dinners, walks on the beach alone? See a rom-com movie with a single bucket of popcorn? Dance together? Maybe guys SHOULD do these things together and get less homophobic like in Arab cultures, and maybe yours, but it serves are purposes here. Otherwise, you do with women what you'd do with guys. Bowl, hike, take a class, play poker. Treat her like "just one of the guys". Oh, right. Not a drinking buddy, though. Alcohol cause "oops." |
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