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Post by unmatched on Mar 30, 2016 21:58:23 GMT -5
My back stories are on EP, so a brief summary: we have been together about 18 years, married 15. When we started out sex was OK, she was a bit repressed and hated her body but over time she came out of herself and I thought everything would be fine. And it was for the first 10 years, maybe not spectacular but good. Looking back on it, there was never a great deal of intimacy, but I didn't notice much because there was sex and I guess I was getting the connection I needed from that. Then she had some prolapse issues after childbirth (sorry if TMI!) and they brought all her body self-image stuff crashing back. So we spent a few years dealing with that and our sex life bombed, as did pretty much all touch and physical intimacy in our marriage. Since then there was one issue after another (health, family, emigration, study, exams, work...) that was always more important and I kept putting it on the back burner while we dealt with whatever the issue of the moment was. For the record we were never totally sexless but down to maybe 4 times a year.
Two years ago I started trying to address it and tried all the scented candle stuff and then the serious talks. The touch and affection did get a lot better (although it doesn't come naturally to her), but the sex just wasn't happening. Eventually last Christmas we nearly split up, and she came back and said she wanted to make it work. (I am not sure if she was bluffing about the divorce and then backed down or whether she just changed her mind when she realised I was willing to walk.) Since February we have been having regular sex, and there is still more touch and affection in our marriage. And we are going to start seeing a counsellor in a couple of weeks.
So I feel a lot better and more connected than I did, and sometimes I feel optimistic that we can keep on improving our relationship over the next 20 years. On the other hand there is still a lot missing. She still doesn't like kissing and foreplay, she is still quite intimacy-phobic, and she won't initiate sex and is very rarely in the mood, although she can get into it once we start. Sex for her is not about connection - it is very orgasm focused and once she has come she loses interest very quickly (sorry again if TMI!). So it is great to be having it, and it is not starfish sex, but it is not as satisfying or connecting as it could be. Maybe these things can change, or maybe it is just not something she wants and she is doing whatever she has to to keep us together. Maybe it will keep getting better, or maybe she won't be able to sustain it and in 3 months time we will be sexless again. I don't know.
That was a long ramble, but I guess I find myself looking at least at the possibility of things getting better and feeling ambivalent. I have spent a lot of time over the last year thinking about divorce and what it might look like and what I would want (since it looked as though that was likely where we were headed). And I now have lots of ideas in my head about passion and connection and intimacy. And if I was in a movie I know I should walk away from my life and chase that dream and see where it leads, and I would end up in a devoted relationship with somebody incredibly hot and we would die looking into each other's eyes and be buried under the same tree. But does real life ever look like that? And am I just another guy feeling stagnant and having a mid life crisis? I have a son, and the idea of not living with him every day is not appealing at all. On the other hand I am afraid of looking back in 20 years and feeling nothing but regret about a superficial marriage with no deep connection (at least physically, we do have a good intellectual connection and 'get' each other).
Having more regular (if not deeply connected) sex is at least telling me that it is not just about the sex. So I guess as we go into counselling I will start pushing for more intimacy and see whether she will engage or if she runs for the hills.
[If you have read all that, thanks for listening...]
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Post by DryCreek on Mar 31, 2016 2:50:00 GMT -5
I know what you mean, even though my situation's different. Sex is just the obvious thing missing, but there's more - the intimate, emotional connectedness is missing too. Some might describe it as passion.
Going through the motions with sex doesn't fill that void. Whether it's starfish sex, or even engaged sex that's not really "present" with you. Duty sex doesn't to the job, which is why begging and negotiating to fix a sexless relationship doesn't work - it's yields a hollow response.
The emotional intimacy is a very large "envelope" that involves sex but extends well outside the bedroom too. It's a healthy back-and-forth that many would call "chemistry"... Loving actions that are warmly received and reciprocated. A spontaneous kiss, nibble, or touch that elicits a pleasant reaction. Ranging up to foreplay, sex play, and afterplay.
Many of us experience a range of negative reactions instead. Maybe they ignore or feign ignorance. Or laugh, move away, or avoid situations that might lead to intimacy. Or maybe even openly disgusted or angry at the attempt. Regardless of severity, the message is the same: irrespective of having sex with us, they don't want to share intimately with us.
Maybe it's out of a need to protect their emotions; they can't bear to be truly open and vulnerable. Or it's a lack of desire, perhaps out of a genuine inability. Regardless, it leaves us unfulfilled.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2016 20:26:02 GMT -5
Yup!
I sometimes wonder if I had married a hottie that really dug me to the point where we had a great sex life, if I wouldn't have just screwed something else up.
Like maybe I just fess over sex so much because it's the one thing I don't have. If I had sex, would I lament career or other decisions and pursue them until it ruined a good marriage?
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Post by unmatched on Apr 3, 2016 18:43:24 GMT -5
Yup! I sometimes wonder if I had married a hottie that really dug me to the point where we had a great sex life, if I wouldn't have just screwed something else up. Like maybe I just fess over sex so much because it's the one thing I don't have. If I had sex, would I lament career or other decisions and pursue them until it ruined a good marriage? I have wondered that, but honestly as I get older it is feeling alive and connected to my life that is becoming most important to me. And a huge gaping void where there is supposed to be intimacy and connection is becoming harder and harder to gloss over. 15 years ago I was building a business, going out a lot, travelling often, (not to mention actually having some sex), and the absence was much less noticeable. I guess you could argue that I should get busier and I might feel the same way, but I really don't want to spend my life being 'busy' so I can pretend everything is OK. And I don't want to keep building more and more life on an empty foundation. |
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Post by BlondieJank on Apr 3, 2016 22:31:19 GMT -5
I read all of your stories and reality sets in.......how long have I lived this and either turned the blind eye OR pretending this wasn't really happening to me at all. How long can one live in a sexless empty marriage. Worst part is leaving it to find happiness seems so wrong when there are kids involved. I don't know what to do....I have no one to really turn to....
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2016 22:51:20 GMT -5
I read all of your stories and reality sets in.......how long have I lived this and either turned the blind eye OR pretending this wasn't really happening to me at all. How long can one live in a sexless empty marriage. Worst part is leaving it to find happiness seems so wrong when there are kids involved. I don't know what to do....I have no one to really turn to.... You can turn to folks here. Yes, it's tough with kids. Even worse if your husband is a great father and a responsible provider. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2016 23:36:46 GMT -5
I read all of your stories and reality sets in.......how long have I lived this and either turned the blind eye OR pretending this wasn't really happening to me at all. How long can one live in a sexless empty marriage. Worst part is leaving it to find happiness seems so wrong when there are kids involved. I don't know what to do....I have no one to really turn to.... I remember feeling exactly the same way when I first found the ILIASM group on EP. This is a great place to work through your thoughts and feelings. Ask questions, vent, express yourself any way you want. You'll find a ton of support and encouragement here. |
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Post by lwoetin on Apr 3, 2016 23:53:06 GMT -5
So I guess as we go into counselling I will start pushing for more intimacy and see whether she will engage or if she runs for the hills. Intimacy sounds like a good plan to strengthen your love for one another. When we look into our wive's eyes, we should still feel passion. |
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TheBumble
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Post by TheBumble on Apr 3, 2016 23:53:34 GMT -5
I read all of your stories and reality sets in.......how long have I lived this and either turned the blind eye OR pretending this wasn't really happening to me at all. How long can one live in a sexless empty marriage. Worst part is leaving it to find happiness seems so wrong when there are kids involved. I don't know what to do....I have no one to really turn to.... You can turn to folks here. Yes, it's tough with kids. Even worse if your husband is a great father and a responsible provider. or........Yes, it's tough with kids. Even worse if YOU are a great father/mother and a responsible provider......and are still not having your needs fulfilled. One ends up feeling rather 'used' after awhile. And everything goes downhill from there. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2016 11:58:21 GMT -5
You can turn to folks here. Yes, it's tough with kids. Even worse if your husband is a great father and a responsible provider. or........Yes, it's tough with kids. Even worse if YOU are a great father/mother and a responsible provider......and are still not having your needs fulfilled. One ends up feeling rather 'used' after awhile. And everything goes downhill from there. I guess my attitude regarding being a father is a little different. My purpose in that regard is to be used. There's nothing I could to do pay my parents back for the selfless love they gave me -- especially my dad. And there is nothing my kids can do to pay me back. Yes, a little gratitude is wonderful, but I don't expect that, and I doubt I'll ever receive any. But I will tell you that I KNOW my kids know the difference between living with me in the house, and their friends whose dad's live elsewhere and feud with their mothers all the time. Going to "Dad's" on the weekends is NO fun. Not having bedtime prayers with Dad EVERY night sucks too. It may not be fun, but if you love your kids, you'll be there for them until they can live well on their own. |
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TheBumble
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Post by TheBumble on Apr 4, 2016 17:12:38 GMT -5
Sorry, I should have been more clear. 'USED' by my wife...........never the kids.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2016 19:19:52 GMT -5
Those women are nothing BUT users. Just don't get me started, OK? If it was up to me, there would be some horrible penalty for any woman who traps a guy into marrying her....withholds sex....squeezes out a puppy or two or three....then refuses to get a decent-paying job.
Thanks to those bitches, there are fewer men in the dating pool. And it's not even like those men are *happily* married.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2016 10:44:01 GMT -5
Sorry, I should have been more clear. 'USED' by my wife...........never the kids. Then you should at least consider staying and making your presence pleasurable and beneficial to everyone -- including your wife. Now, I definitely understand that this cannot be done in all circumstances. Some hateful bitch wives will destroy even the most sincere efforts of their husbands. Some men NEED at least a little encouragement from their wives and are intrinsically ill equipped to absorb the constant destructive criticism (which escalates over time until it achieves the desired affect -- I know -- I live under this). But I can say from experience that eventually they give up with most of that. I believe I've heard it ALL (incessant mean spirited and sometimes crassly stupid criticism). Back on EP, desperate men on the edge of despair would recount experiences with their wives that clearly hate them. I never heard one that was worse than the worst I've heard from my wife. I've even stopped her clarification of ridiculously cruel statements only to find the details of the clarification worse and more condemning than the original stupid statement. Just understand that eventually their wad will be spent and they'll have no more ammunition. Some point after that, they will stop. Even the stupidest troll gets tire eventually. But this woman is the mother of those kids and I doubt you'll ever win that battle until the kids are old enough to think for themselves and reject the control she will eventually attempt to exert over them. In the meantime you are in the house mitigating the damage and being a light for them. If possible, you need to make that your objective and exercise the necessary discipline to make it happen. If you are the breadwinner, you have more control than you may know. Many of these bitches -- like my wife -- will make some sort of threat of financial disaster initially. She'll threaten to undermine the financial stability of the family. When that happens, you simply get another bank account for your pay, and distribute a budget to the house account. If she pushes it further, you're probably being forced to divorce. But in my case, I found that there is one thing my wife hates more than me -- work. So the impending divorce clarified her thinking quite a bit, and we've lived peacefully for several years now. That's about all I have to say about this. But if you think your situation is worse than mine, try me. I'll be honest, and just give you an example that eclipses your anecdote. And I'll hold back too. Some of the things I've heard are embarrassing even in the context of the anonymity of this forum. Stay strong my friend! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2016 10:54:23 GMT -5
Sorry, I should have been more clear. 'USED' by my wife...........never the kids. One more thing: Once you stop fessing over this stuff, you'll find your wife will develop a degree of respect for you. Not a loving respect, but fear. And not the fear of violence (hopefully) but the fear that when Dad speaks he acts. She will begin to work a little harder not to prompt you to make a declarative statement you will have to follow through on. Because you will have established a pattern of long suffering patience followed by immediate and unyielding action. Trust me, I went through a pathetic period when I was totally heart broken over all of this. Now it's business. The business of keeping US (Including HER) financially whole and preserving a future from which even SHE can recover. She doesn't like it, but I think she trusts it. In good times (non-negatively emotional ones) she will now even express thankfulness for our relative stability in unstable times and an unstable area of the country. She will claim joint responsibility for it -- which is fine and to some degree even true -- but I have no problem with that. I'm not here to win an argument or get any accolades. I'm here to preserve a family and raise kids that will hopefully be emotionally stable and beneficial to their community. |
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TheBumble
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Post by TheBumble on Apr 5, 2016 13:23:18 GMT -5
Sorry, I should have been more clear. 'USED' by my wife...........never the kids. One more thing: Once you stop fessing over this stuff, you'll find your wife will develop a degree of respect for you. Not a loving respect, but fear. And not the fear of violence (hopefully) but the fear that when Dad speaks he acts. She will begin to work a little harder not to prompt you to make a declarative statement you will have to follow through on. Because you will have established a pattern of long suffering patience followed by immediate and unyielding action. Trust me, I went through a pathetic period when I was totally heart broken over all of this. Now it's business. The business of keeping US (Including HER) financially whole and preserving a future from which even SHE can recover. She doesn't like it, but I think she trusts it. In good times (non-negatively emotional ones) she will now even express thankfulness for our relative stability in unstable times and an unstable area of the country. She will claim joint responsibility for it -- which is fine and to some degree even true -- but I have no problem with that. I'm not here to win an argument or get any accolades. I'm here to preserve a family and raise kids that will hopefully be emotionally stable and beneficial to their community. cu........my kids are grown and gone now.........and so am I. And this is unmatched's thread, so don't want to take away from him. |
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