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Post by jerri on Apr 15, 2021 7:38:57 GMT -5
And many years later when life has rubbed the new relationship energy shine off your ex, he will be rubbing one out in the bathroom, alone, thinking about the warnings he should have heeded from you. What a goober guy!
He doesn't have the magical wand that will change sexlessness. They may be pumped full of oxytocin and other hormones found in the first two years of a new relationship, it won't last.
I really like that you are trying to protect your daughter. People just won't want to think let alone talk about the possibility of sexual abuse. It's verbotene.
You wrote what you needed to write nothing wrong with that. I too like the idea of educating your daughter.
A leopard never changes it's spots!!! She is damn lucky to have found a whirlwind, two week marriage. bbl
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Post by whatnext on Apr 15, 2021 8:05:18 GMT -5
Apocrypha has said so much of everything I would have, but he's taken substantial time to do so, carefully phrasing it. Over the time I've been here, he is consistently thoughtful and helpful. I am very grateful for Apocrypha's time and effort, your own now and everyone else who has contributed. Maybe this thread will help others in the future too. Please take this as an earnest effort to steer you from worse outcomes. I think Apocrypha may be addressing your concerns alone only because other members have no issue with his response. He's giving solid advice. I do, it's harder (for me) to communicate in written form than verbal as it is for the most part expressionless and thoughts have to be condensed One thing I don't remember being said is that many, many men find themselves sex-starved and the result is almost always leaving the partner, or an affair with an adult woman. (Male pedophiles are four times as common, so I use the male pronoun here.). You act as though they are on a desert island and there's either your ex-wife, your daughter, or nobody. That's a bit odd. The stats are just horrific, 1 in 3 girls are sexually abused, age nine is the most common age for abuse to start (I assume because they are starting to develop physically yet are still at an age they can me controlled/not believed) and children are 40 times more likely to be abused when the mother introduces a boyfriend.
Yes he could have said "I would leave", "I would cheat", "I have a low libido myself", "I'll stay out of her bedroom, won't put myself in a position of authority over her, and as much as is possible wont be alone with her". Any of these answers would have ended it, but instead the response given avoided answering the question (and he had also avoided a direct related question Ex had plucked up the courage to ask him). In my experience when someone avoids questions there is a reason... Could be pride, could be embarrassment, insecurity / lack of confidence or could simply be deceptive.
Or as already previously stated he could be just like the Ex and not actually know what I'm talking about - again Looking at his response there is no mention of sex just "frustration" and the way he equated my new wife's boys living with me to my daughter living with him suggests in his mind the accusation is just one of abuse no sexual element
Flip the script. It's two years from now. You've been wrong all along. This guy is an amazing stepdad. So much so, you're feeling a bit insecure. He's that good. Hanging over your relationship with this man your daughter adores is the six months of accusations and harassment you pointlessly abused him with. Everyone, including you, knows you were wrong. What's that like? What level of awkward takes place when you're visiting for Thanksgiving and your daughter's stepdad offers you a cold one? If he's okay, where do you end up? You are right and it is worth considering, because if I am right and it is prevented - I'm never going to be recognized as the person who stepped in and prevented it because it didn't happen. I'll only ever be seen as the person who ruined a relationship. I don't see how asking for the boundaries asked for is accusative, harassment or abuse and had they been put on me there would be no argument - in fact the same boundaries have naturally always been in place, I haven't adopted the boys from my new relationship - they have a dad, he is not perfect and neither am I - he is their dad and that relationship is my priority. The same with my new wife, if she thinks my children need to be pulled up on something she will privately raise it with me and I will decided if any action needs to be taken, she doesn't go into their bedrooms when they are there and would only be alone with them in very unusual circumstances. Honestly I have no problem if my daughter at 18 says she doesn't want anything to do with me because of how I treated her step-dad in asking for the above boundaries, I would think it was an over reaction / unreasonable and would explain I was doing my best to protect her and would do the same again. The alternative I can not bare to think about "Dad, this man did all these things to me and you did nothing" would take a lot of cold ones to take that pain away Maybe my situation is even less common than I had thought and there are even fewer people with a libido really that low and/or the inability to even have a rational conversation about anything to do with sex is actually a separate issue to the low libido and trying to reason directly is futile. I'm leaning more to mediation (hopefully with someone experienced with child sex abuse) and hopefully get consensus on good practice boundaries rather than responding to either of their replies. thanks again all for all of your time, thoughts and effort  |
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Post by whatnext on Apr 15, 2021 9:03:23 GMT -5
first two years of a new relationship, it won't last. Thanks for the support, It won't be two years - he'll absolutely know the day after the marriage night, I was back to self loving after a few days. I was young, naive, confused, ashamed and thought there was something wrong with me and that I could fix anything - nobody had whispered in my ear Ex refused to try anymore: Dr, tests, gynecologists or a different sexologist. I don't know if it could be changed, but I do know without professional help it's very unlikely to change and once married she will be harder to motivate to get help - not my problem anymore |
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Post by mirrororchid on Apr 15, 2021 19:41:00 GMT -5
The stats are just horrific, 1 in 3 girls are sexually abused, age nine is the most common age for abuse to start (I assume because they are starting to develop physically yet are still at an age they can me controlled/not believed) and children are 40 times more likely to be abused when the mother introduces a boyfriend. That stat seemed very high. I'd heard 1 in 4 women have been assaulted. Lower than your stat for children alone. I found this: www.rainn.org/statistics/children-and-teensOne in 9 girls and 1 in 53 boys under the age of 18 experience sexual abuse or assault at the hands of an adult.
Where is your 1 in 3 stat from? 1 in 9 is pretty bad, but it includes girls/young ladies up to 18. Not just children. |
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Post by jerri on Apr 15, 2021 21:18:53 GMT -5
There was a young lady in the news who told her mom her partner was sneaking in at night and she didn't believe her. (very often the case of denial) She filmed him coming in her room with an infrared camera. Any chance you can find the story and present it to your daughter. Just educate her? Would she say, oh, dad, stop! Would she be receptive? I doubt it because there are " societal rules" that sex is not to be discussed.
Eta: I could not find the story. It was on google news about a week ago.
How can you empower your daughter to take care of herself against any predator?
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Post by northstarmom on Apr 15, 2021 23:55:33 GMT -5
"There was a young lady in the news who told her mom her partner was sneaking in at night and she didn't believe her. (very often the case of denial) She filmed him coming in her room with an infrared camera. Any chance you can find the story and present it to your daughter. Just educate her? Would she say, oh, dad, stop! Would she be receptive? I doubt it because there are " societal rules" that sex is not to be discussed.
Eta: I could not find the story. It was on google news about a week ago.
How can you empower your daughter to take care of herself against any predator?""
I don't think that's the way to protect one's daughter against a predator. I think all it would do is frighten her and cause her to regard all men with suspicion. First, most who prey on young children do it by acting in a loving way with them and then gradually proceed to sexual behavior after the child trusts them. A story about a predator sneaking into a child's bedroom will not protect your child. Telling a child (male or female. Males are sexually victimized, too) about sex and appropriate sexual offers some protection. Letting your child know that that they should tell you if any adult or older child tries to touch "areas that your bathing suit covers" or tries to entice your child to do that to them. As children get older it's important to let them know about date rape (which happens to males as well as females), and not to do things like drink out of punch bowls, and not to leave their beverage glass unattended in bars or at parties. It's also important for you not to blame victims for being molested or raped. I know at least two women who as children were raped by family friends or relatives but never told their parents because they had heard their parents blaming sexual abuse victims.
The best thing that a parent can do to protect their children from sexual predation is to not only educate their children about sex (including that it is an important part of loving relationships between consenting adults) but also to maintain a loving relationship in which their children can talk about their concerns including sexual ones.
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Post by Apocrypha on Apr 16, 2021 1:21:40 GMT -5
That stat seemed very high. I'd heard 1 in 4 women have been assaulted. Lower than your stat for children alone. I found this: www.rainn.org/statistics/children-and-teensOne in 9 girls and 1 in 53 boys under the age of 18 experience sexual abuse or assault at the hands of an adult.
Where is your 1 in 3 stat from? 1 in 9 is pretty bad, but it includes girls/young ladies up to 18. Not just children. The 1 in 4 figure is a bullshit stat. As part of my Master's thesis, I reviewed a lot of the "common knowledge" violence stats and the primary research and mistakes from which they originated. 1 in 4 can be originally sourced to a Ms Magazine study with a tiny response rate in which the editors overrode the answers to the respondents. One of the questions on it amounted to "have you had unwanted sex". Unwanted sex does not meet the definition of sexual assault or abuse (mostly everyone has had unwanted sex at some point - it means agreed to sex they didn't want to have). All of the stats that replicate that figure are the result of significant deviations from statistical best practices and astoundingly gamed questions or sample errors. For example, one of the source studies surveyed the women at a sexual abuse shelter, and surprisingly came up to a figure that amounted to nearly 100%. Another made an error, adding percentages together from across a string of cities, amounting to over 100%. I know this seems to be too stupid to be true, but much of the source data in this field originates from activists working in the shelters themselves - they aren't academics - but they are sourced BY academics. They cross pollinate across legal jurisdictions as well, so an American feminist activist organization cites Canadian "sexual assault" stats but then reproduces the same Canadian figure as a rape stat (whereas in Canada, a sexual assault could be someone who touches you ass or arm in an unwanted way). Then the Canadian advocacy organizations quote the US chapters back again on their own data, but it ends up reported as a rape instead of a sexual assault. Academic studies from activists frequently - almost always game the definitions by deviating from the criminal code. One campus rape study in Canada had 3/4 of women on campus being sexually assaulted. Looking into the research questions - it became clear that they classed "unwanted glances" or "Feeling uncomfortable" as an assault. It's a wonder that 100% of women weren't assaulted if that was the definition. Moreover, they only asked women, so there was no baseline from which to draw a comparison. In the few studies that bother to ask men the same questions and that also pose overly broad definitions, the men reported the same rate of sexual assault (by the same terms). In most of those Cases (Canada was particularly bad - and has had some of the biggest national studies), they actively suppressed the release of the male data and only reported the female data - imparting that women were unfairly targeted. What's astounding and unexpected in all of this - is that in ALL of the studies that have factored sexual orientation, lesbian women have the highest rate of instigating sexual and domestic violence, ranging from 7 - 20x that of heterosexual couples. What's important in all of this - is that there is an unhealthy advocacy industry built around incredible stats designed to mislead people, while enriching the advocates themselves. To put it in perspective, 1 in 4 exceeds the rate of rape in the Congo, where rape is used as a main terror weapon of war on women and boys. 1 in 4 means someone sitting at your dinner table is likely a rapist. It's absurd. Actual rates are far, far lower. It's a shame that this kind of crap is slung and has become as top of mind as the old canard "you only use 10% of your brain" or "women are paid 70 cents for every dollar a man makes for the same job." If you say them often enough, they feel true- like things everyone says. But once you examine them for a moment - they fall apart. My friend who was complaining that 3/4 women on campus were to be raped, was ready and planning to send her daughter there. That level of doublethink is astounding to me - if she actually believed it, she would NEVER send her daughter there. Anyway - your instinct about 1/3 - to ask about it where it came from and how it was derived - is a rational one. Stats of this kind are like diet advice from a stack of bad magazines. There are a lot of claims, but not a lot of quality research happening. |
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Post by jerri on Apr 16, 2021 4:25:37 GMT -5
NSM
It's not advice or a how-to. it is just an example of what he is talking about. I mean the question just as typed. It's not my place to educate his daughter when I don't know her. It is a question for him.
"How can you empower your daughter to take care of herself against any predator?"
I protected myself against predators by learning martial arts.(Eited for privacy) I didn't feel safe until I knew how to kick their ass and if they came back at me after I had already dropped them to the ground or snapped their arm or leg...
I think he can teach his daughter to empower herself in any situation. My master had men sit on my chest pinning me down and I had to get out of it on my own. You practice every move in detail. Fear was a powerful teacher in my class. Every trap or hold was practiced in detail. Sometimes your best weapon is thinking your way out of a situation. The camera was brilliant she didn't have to lift a finger and it captured his every move in detail. I am not too sure he should keep her trapped in naivety. Let's don't scare her, let's just let her find out the hard way. I hope children have already been taught what you wrote. I was taught in business if anything starts going South and it doesn't seem quite right record that conversation with your phone. Not a bad idea to pass that on.
Lots of posts are just a mash of ideas and posters take what they can use and leave the rest. I get that it is not what you would do and that is okay.
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Post by mirrororchid on Apr 16, 2021 6:20:13 GMT -5
1 in 4 exceeds the rate of rape in the Congo, where rape is used as a main terror weapon of war on women and boys. 1 in 4 means someone sitting at your dinner table is likely a rapist. It's absurd. Good stuff. Thanks, Apocrypha. Have to point out (not that I think you're confusing the issue) that the one in four refers to the women reportedly raped (Do we have good numbers you trust more?) but it's not a one to one ratio. It's assumed, and I've heard no contradiction, that men who rape are commonly repeat offenders. One man can sexually assault multiple women or, in this context, children. When we hear of priests molesting those put in their trust, it's never been a single victim, in my experience. To repeat, we've heard the nonsense, did you find good reliable stats? RAINN's 1 in 9 may be too high too. I do not know and maybe you've already trod this path. |
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Post by whatnext on Apr 16, 2021 6:54:11 GMT -5
Where is your 1 in 3 stat from? I don't know the background to the study, what measurement was used for "abuse" or where the sample was taken 1 in 9 is pretty bad, but it includes girls/young ladies up to 18. Not just children. 1 in 7.8 billion is a number too high IMHO others may have acceptable ratios. We could quibble about flaws in the studies or even misunderstand what it represents ourselves The fact remains numbers are far too high and everybody has a responsibility to do what they can to get it to the only acceptable number of zero! |
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Post by northstarmom on Apr 16, 2021 12:26:18 GMT -5
"The 1 in 4 figure is a bullshit stat. "
I don't think so. For some reason, I have always been a person whom others revealed sexual molestation/rape to. Even when I was in high school, friends told me about being raped or molested. Once, in one of my theater troupes, we were preparing to do a play in which a character was molested and when we were talking about that part 7 out of the ten people present (and the group had men as well as women) said they had been raped or molested. That included one of the 3 men. I think molestation and rape are likely underestimated and underreported.This especially is true for men, who typically have more shame and self blame about being victims. More reason to make sure that whatever your situation, you provide sexual education for your children.
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Post by Apocrypha on Apr 16, 2021 19:29:31 GMT -5
"The 1 in 4 figure is a bullshit stat. " I don't think so. For some reason, I have always been a person whom others revealed sexual molestation/rape to. Even when I was in high school, friends told me about being raped or molested. Once, in one of my theater troupes, we were preparing to do a play in which a character was molested and when we were talking about that part 7 out of the ten people present (and the group had men as well as women) said they had been raped or molested. That included one of the 3 men. I think molestation and rape are likely underestimated and underreported.This especially is true for men, who typically have more shame and self blame about being victims. More reason to make sure that whatever your situation, you provide sexual education for your children. I have seen and studied the origin of the figure in its first reported case - which was from Ms Magazine. It wasn't "research". It was a self-selected poll (think of a tear out mail in coupon) with a response rate of less than 2% - and you had to subscribe to Ms Magazine (at the time, a militant feminist magazine), to get it. Even so, the editors by their own admission changed the reported answer of rape of their respondents to "yes" - who had said "No" when asked that question, if they had answered the more vaguely worded (an non-conforming to the legal definition in the US). From there, it was widely picked up by feminist advocacy groups and became "common knowledge" on the Oprah Winfrey Show - which is why it's top of mind for most people today. Given 20 min, I'm sure I could reproduce the actual questions posed, how people answered, and how the editors SAID they answered, to get to the 1 in 4 figure. I laid out a few examples of the the data and research errors in the other groups upthread. I've studied dozens, maybe over a hundred of these in my research - examining primary data - the actual studies and methodology vs what got reported. These aren't research - though they are posed as such in order to pose a moral panic and thus secure funding. There's even a treatise written on this kind of "activism" that justifies lying in the data as a moral necessity to help get funding for shelters etc. There are many ways to game the data to produce the result - and most journalists and laypeople have no idea how much of the information is knowingly fabricated. They broaden the definition so as to include awkward or uncomfortable interactions, or even normal interactions (e.g. unwanted sex, looking at people) Or they suppress half of the data, or they don't even ask the same questions of men - which you'd need (stats 101), to determine whether the behavior is aberrant or simply a description of normal interaction, reclassed as aberrant. They collapse categories together (example, unwanted touch and penetrative rape), reporting them both as rape, or further collapse the categories as "sexual assault" and rape - to get the higher number. The way the mind works, it selects the higher number and applies it to the worst of the two offences. They broaden the span of time, so it can cross decades - a lifetime. So, in your whole life, have you EVER had someone touch you in an unwanted way, but play fast and loose with the reporting, so as to make it sound like it is on a per annum basis. And yes, as you indicated - it's very likely women offenders are underreported (often attacking other women) and male victims are underreported. They sample aberrant areas that are likely to produce a high result (one sampled literally a rape shelter, so by definition anyone in the sample would believe they had been assaulted and would be a woman). In your own anecdote, you pulled a high response from people selected from within *a theater troupe that was doing a play that featured a molestation*. That's unlikely to be a random, "general public" sample, but rather something that might connect specifically to a population with strong personal feelings around that topic. Just a few of the ways the data gets obfuscated. The problem - of many problems with this - is that the data becomes useless in terms of actually diagnosing the problem for effective remedy. This doesn't mean the people who you know who explained their experiences to you were wrong or their experiences were not harmful to them. I'm talking about data at a societal scale, and I'm talking about the method of the research done to produce the the reports that most people feel are common knowledge, and why they think it is common knowledge. I'm sure at least some of the people who are engaged in fabricating the data are doing it for what they believe are altruistic reasons. Many of these come from front line workers and activists who feel they are helping the person in front of them. Many of them really don't have much expertise in data gathering techniques, and the advocacy groups harvesting their privacy research aren't particularly compelled or rewarded unless they show those 1 in 4 or 1 in 3 stats. Bottom line, whenever you see a stat reporting on some malady of the human experience for a group - the first question anyone should ask is "compared to what?" The second is to look up the study if it's named and at least read the summary. I swear 9 times out of 10 when I do that on any sociological news article, the headline drawn has nothing to do with the study cited by the activist (in some cases, it's the opposite conclusion drawn in the study - they've gotten it backwards in a 'wet streets causes rain' kind of way). And if it is an incredible number like 1 in 4, you need to look up the study and questions asked to really drill down to see if they've gamed it. |
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Post by mirrororchid on Apr 19, 2021 4:43:15 GMT -5
In your own anecdote, you pulled a high response from people selected from within *a theater troupe that was doing a play that featured a molestation*. That's unlikely to be a random, "general public" sample, but rather something that might connect specifically to a population with strong personal feelings around that topic. This would be geographic sampling as well. Is it a small town with just a few churches and the largest congregation is headed by a pedophile clergyman? Was a primary school teacher the offender and half the town goes through that feeder school? Add your observation that some kids who normally audition for plays being put off by the mature/disturbing subject matter might skip that round, thereby skewing data. All that said, I do have to wonder if I've been delusional about sexual offending being uncommon. 1 in 9 would mean your odds are very good you won't get that particular emotional scar, but it still amounts to a lot of victims. I've not checked their methodology, but... www.thedemandproject.org/Statistics.aspxThe Association for the Treatment of Sexual Abusers found that the average number of victims for non-incestuous pedophiles who molest girls is 20, for pedophiles who prefer boys the number jumps to 100.
If the correct stat were 1 of 9. and you (unreasonably) ignore the part that mentions females 15-18 are included in that stat, that suggests the offenders are out there at 1 out of 180. A bit over half a percent. 99.5% chance this dude is innocent using the worst possible stats. And on that sliver rests an aggressive persecution. Soooooo gotta beat this dead horse just a little more, WhatNext. So far, there's a lot of worst case scenario behavior. Much seems focused on how you'd feel if you defied the odds and disaster struck. Fear is dominating the decisions, the stats bring you zero comfort. You speak of doing all you can even at the risk of damaging other relationships and perhaps even the one with your daughter. You seem terrified by the thought of telling yourself "If I'd only...." You envision a condition of endless, eternal guilt and self-loathing. You'll do what you do, but it may be useful to get some help managing the fear. Is it functional? Reasonable? Does it let you live a life where your daughter's life is not 100% under your control and never will be? Can you learn self-forgiveness if you fail to protect her? Is there an upper limit of diligence you will be satisfied with and be secure that it qualifies as "the best you can"? Is that limit going to be so high it causes you legal or interpersonal problems? Can you make these decisions all on your own when you're so close to the problem, perspective may be lost? You'd blame yourself, would anyone else? Is that a metric that matters? Should it be? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2021 20:54:51 GMT -5
You need to talk to your daughter and tell her what kind of behavior is inappropriate between kids and adults. The best way to protect your kids is by informing them and letting them know to tell you if anyone does anything inappropriate. This is important to do in an age appropriate way with kids (boys and girls) from about age 3 and up. I see red flags too in what you described. Marrying an asexual woman with a child would be a great deal for a pedophile.
This. Also, your ex might not be as asexual in the new relationship as you suspect.
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Post by jerri on Apr 22, 2021 4:54:21 GMT -5
Was the forum too confrontational because he is either too busy or just didn't bother to come back? 😑
There's no way this guy is getting sex for long because of the way she treats sex to begin with. No way- sex is foreign to her.
it's not about you, What'sNext, it's about her! That's the first thing a therapist told me and why would we sell him anything else? We know what it is like. And we know better. 65% of second marriages fail but they are getting sex consistently? I doubt it. Maybe only during the "New Relationship Energy" phase where the hormones like vasopressin and oxytocin are raging for 1-2yrs tops.
Kind of creepy that he is good with no sex. I hope she found someone who loves porn and a palm. That's why I think he was just desperate to get in a marriage. YIKES what A goober move.
I love that you warned him and I would do the same. Not that she would listen but at least would be warned. And this ass hat won't listen either.
I asked my H when he was planning to leave the marriage, many years ago. What will
you do? Are you going to have sex with a woman? He said " I will have to at first" I nearly puked from his honesty. (we didn't consummate our marriage) and sex
came to a screeching halt little by little) My therapist said he didn't have to work on the marriage any longer. He had me.
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