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Post by whatnext on Apr 11, 2021 21:37:49 GMT -5
How do you explain sexual temptation and trying to protect your children from sexual abuse to someone who has no sexual desire?
I suppose it just confirms the problem. Ex has an extremely low libido - possibly none at all. It was a problem from the start and had all the usual arguments and refusal tactics played and when I had finally given up (which was just after she said nothing would change and she wasn't going to try anymore) and said we should get divorced it genuinely came as a shock to R (R for Refuse). It makes sense, it meant nothing to her so why would I want to leave just because it's missing from the relationship? Looking at it from her point of view it would be like someone asking for a divorce because their partner didn't make the bed in the morning or some other trivial (to them) reason. I know she is not alone, in discussing the problem and why I was leaving with some males they just couldn't believe it - thought I had lost my mind. One told me he had never masturbated and got married at 35 and I was like "Oh, you would have been so perfect for R!"
I had given up trying to explain it in different ways and accepted it was possibly an impossible task anyway, and that time/effort was better focused on other things and would just have to accept that R would always blame me and think there is another secret reason. This was working well and the subject didn't surface again until... R got a new partner and naturally I am extremely concerned at the danger our 9 year old daughter is now in.
I have shown R links and stats on child sex abuse and how 1 in 3 girls experience it, how age 9 is the most at risk age and also how kids are 40 times more at risk when the mother gets a new partner - and that's for "normal" people add to this situation the fact I know how low her libido is and from viewing his Facebook profile he has a libido (lots of references to sex). He has already taken DD clothes shopping (without R being there) and while talking to DD on the phone I heard him come into her bedroom and say "What are you still doing awake little Missy, go to sleep". All this before R ever mentioned him, DS(11) broke the news when he told me R was looking at houses, getting married and they were going to all live together 
Kids get things wrong all the time so I called R and asked what was going on and she said , "Oh yeah I've met someone 3 weeks ago and started a relationship" Yeah good Christians planning a wedding and living together after 3 weeks - he's got a libido and he wants sex now! I asked R if she had discussed the reasons I had given her for terminating the marriage and found out what his expectations of intimacy frequency are? she said she had and that his reply was "It wouldn't matter, I would still love you" - sounds like he has avoided the question. R gave me his email address and said I should email him directly so I did, I gave him the same sex abuse statistics and explained how low R's libido was and asked him if he found himself sexually frustrated how he was going to protect my DD - his answer avoiding response provided below:
"Let me just say, the inference that I would resort to taking any frustrations out on any children is quite vulgar & disgusting. I’m not sure if you faced any similar insinuations or questioning from XXXX’s former partner & father to their children prior to the both of you commencing any form of relationship, but you can rest assured that if, & when, R & I do progress to marriage, after which we would live together as XXXX, her boys & yourself are, your children would be just as safe as hers are with you."
Besides avoiding another direct question and getting triggered by a reasonable question about child protection his assurances just don't hold any water because the situation he is trying to say is equivalent is completely different XXXX's children are perfectly safe, XXXX has a higher libido than me, (sexual frustration is not a concern in my life anymore, I actually have to negotiate a day off for myself to recover from time to time haha now I'm the refuser!) and also they are boys (well young men now). I'm trying to convince myself his avoidance isn't a deception and he genuinely doesn't understand and he thinks I'm simply talking about physical abuse, but it just doesn't feel right.
So far I have told R that he is to stay out of the kids bedrooms, not be left alone with them and have no authority over them - all very reasonable requests IMHO, but with the extremely low libido she has, low stranger danger awareness and sense that I "ruined her life" R thinks I'm just trying to put restrictions on her or make trouble and so far has only committed to consider the requests but has already said she can not fully comply. Why R would want him to go into the children's bedrooms at night, be left alone with them and discipline them I can not understand.
The silly thing is that the "requests" I have made are actually as much for his protection as they are for my children, if one of them made any accusation it would be dealt with very quickly and there would be no repeat offending
So the question is has anyone else found a good way to explain to someone with no libido that the majority of people have one and it is reasonable that they would leave to find someone to meet that need without all the attitude of constant excuses, chore trading and having to earn the favor? Further that someone who experiences that constant rejection and frustration is likely to feel tempted especially when living closely with a young vulnerable unrelated girl.
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Post by baza on Apr 11, 2021 23:16:25 GMT -5
In my jurisdiction Brother whatnext , if you know (or strongly suspect) that a kid is being abused it is incumbent on you to report it to the Police (and/or The Dept Of Human Services) But, you want to make a pretty solid case if you are going to do that - lest you be accused of being vexatious - and using 'the system' to get back at your ex missus. About your missus, you can only say with some certainty is that she was sexually averse to you. It could also be the case that she is sexually averse to this new bloke, it could even be so that she is sexually averse 'generally' .... but don't bet on that. Brother Apocrypha (a respected member here) has written a lot on this subject. Having a read of his stuff might be worth your while. Anyway, you don't get the right of veto on who your ex missus chooses to associate with. She's your EX missus. As far as this new bloke goes, it would seem that if he was in a sexless situation it would not follow that he would turn pedophile, any more than you were likely to when you were in a sexless situation. I stand to be corrected on this but I think that pedophelia is not something one adopts in the absence of normal adult sexual expression but is rather a primary orientation all on its own. Good luck as you work your way through this all whatnow . It's all a very grey area. |
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Post by saarinista on Apr 12, 2021 0:42:31 GMT -5
I'd talk to a lawyer before you do anything.
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Post by Apocrypha on Apr 12, 2021 0:47:52 GMT -5
So the question is has anyone else found a good way to explain to someone with no libido that the majority of people have one and it is reasonable that they would leave to find someone to meet that need without all the attitude of constant excuses, chore trading and having to earn the favor?
Further that someone who experiences that constant rejection and frustration is likely to feel tempted especially when living closely with a young vulnerable unrelated girl.
It sounds to me like you experienced constant rejection and frustration whatnext . I'm not clear about your theory in which you explain that this should cause you or anyone else to be attracted to children. Is that how you felt when you were in that circumstance? so you think that's what everyone feels? His response you your apparently baseless and disgusting inference to him -that he was a pedophile- is likely much more diplomatic to you than mine might have been. Nor am I clear - if your ex-wife had always been aesexual - why you married her. If you are able to clarify that, it might shed light on why someone else might do the same. Based on what you've said here, there is circumstantial evidence that your ex-wife isn't against sex at all, but rather, isn't into you. I daresay, that is a very common result on this board, and it is a circumstance I came to realize about my own marriage as well. I'm not clear on the question you are asking. Why would you need to explain to your ex-wife that the majority of people have a libido? In your mind, what does "the majority of people" have to do with how your former spouse feels and behaves with you sexually? It's not a vote. Why are you involving yourself in your ex-wife's sexual affairs? What do you hope to gain from this? If your ex-wife finds a suitable partner, the manner in which you conduct yourself now is going to determine the nature of the relationship you are going to have going forward with your two families. Think very hard about every major holiday and family event coming up in which the 3 of you might feasibly be together - your daughter's birthdays, Christmas, her eventual wedding, graduation etc - all of it. Now, think about how you want to feel in those events - the level of family tension and animosity you want to feel. If you charge in, stalking her boyfriends on facebook, making comments on her sexual proclivities as if you control them, and accusing her partners of pedophilia - it sounds like recipe for taking an awkward situation and making it into actual hell for yourself, your daughter, and everyone else. I understand that how things have rolled out must seem incredibly unfair and infuriating. I imagine that with the amount of effort you put in, it must be be a cosmic injustice that he should - with comparably no effort - be included in intimacy that you had worked hard to find with her. I can promise that if you look away, eventually your attraction and focus on her will dissipate and you'll be able to see her as a normal person - like someone you just met on the street or a co-worker. Unless you have a specific reason and evidence to think that a particular partner has an unhealthy relationship with your children - I'd be very mindful about succumbing to the temptation to tar her partners with toxic, unrecoverable, threatening accusations. It's not realistic that she's never going to have a partner again, so the best case is likely that she finds a good guy who you like and who is good with your daughter. Instead of having him somehow prove to you that he's not a pedophile, how about you figure out how you can help him be successful in his challenging role as an adult in his life. It's likely you will also be in his position with your next partner -so consider how you would want to interact with your next partner's ex-husband. Instead, consider what the best case looks like for your post-separation family life and personal life. What are the things you want in your life? What is the best and most healthy relationship you can have with your bio-family, so that all the adults in your child's life are positioned for success. |
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Post by whatnext on Apr 12, 2021 3:27:50 GMT -5
About your missus, you can only say with some certainty is that she was sexually averse to you. It could also be the case that she is sexually averse to this new bloke, it could even be so that she is sexually averse 'generally' .... but don't bet on that. Brother Apocrypha (a respected member here) has written a lot on this subject. Having a read of his stuff might be worth your while. With absolute certainty you are right, but there are other things that strongly suggest she is averse generally from simple things like not idolizing boy band members as a girl through to not experiencing an orgasm (alone or with anyone else) ever. After 15 years and everything that was discussed and tried including a sexologist I think its a pretty safe bet, but I will have a look at apocrypha's posts Anyway, you don't get the right of veto on who your ex missus chooses to associate with. She's your EX missus. True of course, and if my children weren't there I would just feel a little sorry for him - also though a part of me would hope as history repeated Ex would consider maybe I was telling the truth and stop blaming me as much, 4 years on and I still get "your decision to leave me" no acknowledgement whatsoever that she had a part in the breakdown of the marriage. My focus is on the children and getting some boundaries established which I believe I do have a right to as we have "shared parental responsibility" and as a minimum they should include not being alone, not going into their bedrooms and not having authority over them. Ex has no stranger-danger-dar and once left the children for a week with someone she had only first met 3 weeks before As far as this new bloke goes, it would seem that if he was in a sexless situation it would not follow that he would turn pedophile, any more than you were likely to when you were in a sexless situation. I hope you are right, and if he was in a sexless situation he would leave or satisfy his needs elsewhere. But what is a pedophile? someone who has sex with someone under the age of 16 and what if a 14yo looks and acts like a 16yo - is he what we would call a "pedophile" if he felt aroused or is he just human? Also research shows (which is no surprise) that the bond between a biological parent to protect a child is much stronger than a non-biological parent I stand to be corrected on this but I think that pedophelia is not something one adopts in the absence of normal adult sexual expression but is rather a primary orientation all on its own. link "Classification Typologies Probably the first, and maybe still the most common, classification typology for child molesters is the one developed by Dr. Groth, who classifies sexual offenders against children into two groups on the basis of whether this involvement constitutes a persistent pattern (a fixation) or a new activity or change (a regression) in their sexual orientations or lifestyles. Dr. Groth further explains that the Fixated Child Molester is one ':whose primary sexual orientation is towards children," and the Regressed Child Molester is one "whose sexual involvement with a child is a clear departure, under stress, from a primary sexual orientan towards age mates." In essence, Dr. Groth's Fixated Child Molester prefers children for sexual partners and identifies closely with them. The Regressed Child Molester prefers age mates for sexual partners but, because of some precipitating stress in his life, he substitutes a child for the troubled adult relationship"
I think it can be both, for examples of "regressed" one could look to the prevalence within the church setting where abstinence is dictated Good luck as you work your way through this all whatnow . thanks baza |
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Post by whatnext on Apr 12, 2021 10:41:54 GMT -5
It sounds to me like you experienced constant rejection and frustration whatnext . I've read a fair bit on here about 4 years ago and not wanting to diminish anyone else's experiences but mine was one of the more extreme cases. I can't remember my user id and I've tried to search for myself but with no luck so far. I'm not clear about your theory in which you explain that this should cause you or anyone else to be attracted to children. Is that how you felt when you were in that circumstance? so you think that's what everyone feels? His response you your apparently baseless and disgusting inference to him that he was a pedophile is likely much more diplomatic to you than mine might have been. I didn't accuse anyone of anything, I simply laid out the statistics around the situation and asked what he planned to do to mitigate the risk. We don't wear seat belts because we have already flown through a windscreen we wear them because we know the risks / possible consequences and so we mitigate accordingly - If you see me driving with my seat belt on it doesn't mean I'm getting ready to drive my car into you or think you might be about to do the same to me. Where child safety is involved (my focus) - everybody's feelings and ego come second including my own so no need to be diplomatic  All I know about this person is he has taken DD clothes shopping without Ex and feels comfortable going into her bedroom at night and disciplining her. A bases to accuse someone of pedophilia? hardly, but a bit creepy none the less and this is the sort of behavior I want to stop. To answer the other question, while looking for solutions to the situation I joined a few chat/date sites and eventually Tinder with the intention to just chat and try to figure out if my situation was common and if any females could give advise (regrettably I only found this site after everything had blown up), some did and remain friends to date. I'm not proud of myself, but in discussing my problems I started to get offers of a more hands on approach and I found myself giving in to temptation with women (and I know this sounds, awful thankfully I'm not trying to win a popularity contest) who I didn't actually find attractive so in answer to your question yes desperation did drive me out of what I would consider hard limits. That said I did decline some offers from a few girls in their early 20's who were attractive, being in my late 30's at the time I had to decline. Combination of pre-guilt feelings, having a daughter myself and knowing that their farther would be about my age - I just couldn't. Had they been the only offers I had received then I have no doubt that line would eventually have been crossed too. Am I just projecting my failures on to someone else? Maybe - I'll have to think about that a bit more. I think it is perfectly natural to think everybody thinks/feels like you - what other experience does one have? and this is what I'm asking for help with, Ex thinks most females and males are just like her and told me I would not find what I was looking for as it just didn't exist (a female with a libido) even after discussing some of the experiences above she couldn't be convinced that they would voluntary do that to satisfy their own needs. Regarding my theory please see my reply to Baza and the link with the definition of a pedophile and the two types. Nor am I clear - if your ex-wife had always been aesexual - why you married her. If you are able to clarify that, it might shed light on why someone else might do the same. I haven't read your other posts recommended by Baza yet, but I will regarding "just not into you" vs being asexual I have given him my initial response as to why I think she isn't into anybody. Ex was/is super attractive (not to me anymore - something snapped inside me and from that moment on she in an instant became a sister to me) We both assumed the other felt the same way, had the same reasons to get married and the same expectations - this was a huge mistake and couldn't have been more wrong. Her friends were all getting married and she wanted a brother type relationship - sex for her was something you did on the wedding night and only to have children after that, Me - I wanted sex everyday! But with someone who would be a best friend as well as a lover. The day after the wedding night cracks started to appear, but being committed Christians I desperately tried to make it work which for the most part was me sacrificing my needs, I was very unhappy and at any moment if she had said she was unhappy we would have started the divorce that day, but she didn't I suppose because she got the brother/friend she wanted. Based on what you've said here, there is circumstantial evidence that your ex-wife isn't against sex at all, but rather, isn't into you. I daresay, that is a very common result on this board, and it is a circumstance I came to realize about my own marriage as well. I'm curious about the circumstantial evidence that its just me she wasn't into. It is something I considered early on in the relationship I had my own company before we got together and was making very good money and wondered it that was what she was really attracted to - it would be really out of her character but in confusing situations like it was one will consider all options, but as the years rolled on and she had had opportunities to take half of what I owned I dismissed the idea. Would I be annoyed if that was the case, well yes! I'd want to know why go through it for 15 years, why waste all that time when we could both have been happy with other people. Ultimately I wouldn't care as the time has passed and I am super happy now, but like the ending of a book I would want to understand. I'm not clear on the question you are asking. Why would you need to explain to your ex-wife that the majority of people have a libido? In your mind, what does "the majority of people" have to do with how your former spouse feels and behaves with you sexually? It's not a vote. Why are you involving yourself in your ex-wife's sexual affairs? What do you hope to gain from this? The concept of sexual temptation is completely alien to her, I imagine it to be the same as if someone was trying to explain homosexual attraction to me - I just can't imagine how that works - not being homophobic I just genuinely don't have any feelings even remotely like that and so couldn't sympathies/understand. I wanted to explain my reasons for leaving so she wouldn't make the same mistake in her next relationship and also so she wouldn't be so angry/blaming me and accept that we should never have gotten married and that it wasn't really anyone's "fault" or choice to leave it was just that we were incompatible and unhealthy together. There is also the issue of her not thinking about child safety from pedophiles for example letting both the children us public restrooms unsupervised from about age 5, leaving them with random people she had only known for 3 weeks - just not having any stranger danger awareness which I link rightly or wrongly to having little or no libido. I hope to gain the ability to sleep at night knowing that there are boundaries in place, that DD has a safe place she can go to, that recommendations are followed like authority comes from the biological parents. Look, you don't get to control who your ex-wife dates. If your ex-wife finds a suitable partner, the manner in which you conduct yourself now is going to determine the nature of the relationship you are going to have going forward with your two families. Think very hard about every major holiday and family event coming up in which the 3 of you might feasibly be together - your daughter's birthdays, Christmas, her eventual wedding, graduation etc - all of it. Now, think about how you want to feel in those events - the level of family tension and animosity you want to feel. If you charge in, stalking her boyfriends on facebook, making comments on her sexual proclivities as if you control them, and accusing her partners of pedophilia - it sounds like recipe for taking an awkward situation and making it into actual hell for yourself, your daughter, and everyone else. Couldn't care less about who the Ex dates so long as she is happy, I do care who is around my children and that there are boundaries in place and no I don't want the children to be around a sexually frustrated male, not just for the risk of abuse outlined above but also because it is a toxic environment which in itself is unhealthy for impressionable children. Ultimately you are right they are independent adults and that is their choice. I am trying to get some boundaries established "seat belts" if you will. Not being alone, not exercising authority over and respecting bedrooms are no go zones seem widely accepted over the internet as good practice but Ex is refusing claiming they are unnecessary/impractical/unreasonable (which is an absolute joke considering all the restrictions placed on me and my new relationship and what we could and couldn't do around the children - but that's a whole nother story) I was curious when my DD said XXX had brought her a pair of shorts, and when a week or so later I heard him telling her to go to sleep while I was talking to her on the phone I was concerned as Ex had never mentioned him before so yes I looked him up on Facebook - stalking/responsible parenting you be the judge. I'm not sure I follow you exactly, are you saying I should focus on the three of us singing "Happy Birthday" together and only worry about any sex abuse once it has actually happened? |
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Post by whatnext on Apr 12, 2021 11:00:03 GMT -5
My page locked up as I was switching between preview and BBCode so I hit post as I didn't want to lose what I'd typed so please forgive the odd typo. I also wanted to thank you Apocrypha for your input so far before ending my reply. You and Baza both seem to think I'm worrying about a non-event which is comforting despite all the horror stories I've read online. so thank you again |
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Post by northstarmom on Apr 12, 2021 11:54:50 GMT -5
You need to talk to your daughter and tell her what kind of behavior is inappropriate between kids and adults. The best way to protect your kids is by informing them and letting them know to tell you if anyone does anything inappropriate. This is important to do in an age appropriate way with kids (boys and girls) from about age 3 and up. I see red flags too in what you described. Marrying an asexual woman with a child would be a great deal for a pedophile.
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Post by Apocrypha on Apr 12, 2021 14:31:36 GMT -5
I'm not clear about your theory in which you explain that this should cause you or anyone else to be attracted to children. Is that how you felt when you were in that circumstance? so you think that's what everyone feels? His response you your apparently baseless and disgusting inference to him that he was a pedophile is likely much more diplomatic to you than mine might have been. I didn't accuse anyone of anything, I simply laid out the statistics around the situation and asked what he planned to do to mitigate the risk. We don't wear seat belts because we have already flown through a windscreen we wear them because we know the risks / possible consequences and so we mitigate accordingly - If you see me driving with my seat belt on it doesn't mean I'm getting ready to drive my car into you or think you might be about to do the same to me. Where child safety is involved (my focus) - everybody's feelings and ego come second including my own so no need to be diplomatic You just posed pedophilia statistics to your exwife's boyfriend as if they pertain to him, posing to him that there is a risk that he will become a pedophile targeting your daughter, and you don't think it's intended to suggest something? Just a general knowledge fact? It looks to me like you are using "concern for your child" as a route toward insulting and sabotaging your wife's relationships. You will likely be in a position eventually where you will meet someone with a kid. How would you like to be treated by her ex-husband when you meet? And yet you basically did accuse him of pedophilia in posing to him that he should convince you that he is not one, or won't become one somehow as a result of the relationship dysfunction with you and your ex-wife. There's nothing in what you said that suggests at all that he is a pedophile or creepy. While it is uncomfortable, understandably, to have another person included in the household who you don't know - that's pretty much what any divorced parent has to face at some point. What likely happened was, after her bedtime, he heard her talking to someone in her room (or she was in a common area, or had wandered into his bedroom), and he was surprised because he thought she was in bed. If you want to establish a parenting plan and ground rules, that's reasonable- do it with your wife. You don't have a relationship with this guy - she does. If you want to be painted in the role of domineering psycho ex-husband, carry on with your present course and see how it works out. Tinder is best used as a dating app, and dating might work better if you don't talk too much about your ex wife's situation. There's nothing shameful about a single person going out dating. There's nothing unusual about women in their 20s contacting men in their 30s. I'm 50 and I still get contacted by women in their 20s. If they aren't your thing, that's fine - but a May/September romance between adults has nothing to do with pedophilia. My question to you was about why you think other men would be attracted to children, not 20 year olds, as a result of your conjecture about their sexless relationship. It sounds to me as though religion is playing a role here, and that as a result of your beliefs and behaviours, perhaps neither of you had experience with sex by the time you made this life decision, and no sense of what the other enjoyed or didn't. If you need some help, I find that Christ's focus on forgiveness was incredibly helpful for me, even as an athiest/agnostic. Specifically, the benefit my empathy and forgiveness for my wife's failings would bring to ME and our children, in allowing me to move forward with my own life and a cooperative parenting arrangement, rather than dwelling in fear, jealousy, entitlement and hate for what she did. Specifically, I allowed myself to imagine what it would be like for her to have made a mistake of such monumental proportions - to marry someone she did not love as a husband or as a lover, and to endure feeling trapped like that for over a decade. It helped me realize that if I had felt like that, I might not have brought out my best self either. Maybe she could have known or anticipated - but who can really anticipate what marriage really is until after it has happened? Based on what you said, it appears that she has a boyfriend, and that it's moving fast. What do you THINK is happening over there? It's over. She's got a boyfriend. There's no reason to explain it or resolve it now, if you weren't able to do so when you were together. You need to play the ball from where it has landed and instead of trying to be "right" or "righteous" about the marriage, which is over, figure out how to to position yourself, and your wife, and any other adults in your child's life, for success and happiness. Or, you can continue to try to sabotage her happiness by insulting her boyfriends and burn their house down around them - but it strikes me as a bad plan. The person to take that up with is her. Not with others, unless you have reason to believe something wrong happened. Coming in with guns blazing about pedophilia and talking about his partner's supposed frigidity (his own experience may be quite different) is unlikely to create an ally. |
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Post by whatnext on Apr 12, 2021 22:40:32 GMT -5
You just posed pedophilia statistics to your exwife's boyfriend and you don't think it's intended to suggest something? Just a general knowledge fact? It looks to me like you are using "concern for your child" as a route toward insulting and threatening your wife's relationships. And because of some insecurities that is how he may have taken it - of course I can see that, but it wasn't the intention. There are two types of pedophile ones with a per-disposition and ones that become one ie regress due to stresses. At worst my message could be interpreted as trying to prevent the latter developing (although privately I do hold very very mild concerns based on unusual to me behaviors so far) What likely happened was, after her bedtime, he heard her talking to someone in her room (or she was in a common area, or had wandered into his bedroom), and he was surprised because he thought she was in bed. She was in bed talking to her father and he came into her bedroom and excreted his authority over her and this was weeks before even the Ex dates the relationship starting If you want to establish a parenting plan and ground rules, that's reasonable- do it with your wife. You don't have a relationship with this guy - she does. If you want to be painted in the role of domineering psycho ex-husband, carry on with your present course and see how it works out. This was what I tried first, and the purpose of this thread. It really is like there is a mental block there in an otherwise intelligent person. She has never wanted to talk about sex, always found it awkward like it is something "you just shouldn't talk about" to the point that I have noticed her digging her finger nails in hard to her arm and the conservation wasn't particularly confrontational. My question to you was about why you think other men would be attracted to children, not 20 year olds, as a result of your conjecture about their sexless relationship. People's preference and what they are prepared to do to be satisfied change depending on the environment they are in. Example:the high levels of homosexual acts in single sex environments (prisons/defense etc) and the two types of pedophile mentioned earlier. You asked if I might be unfairly projecting my own regression onto someone else, the answer was unlikely as I couldn't handle an age gap of 20 years - I'm not judging anyone who can, but for me it would be taking an unfair advantage and I wouldn't be happy for someone to do that to my daughter so I wouldn't do it to someone else's. Specifically, the benefit my empathy and forgiveness for my wife's failings would bring to ME and our children, in allowing me to move forward with my own life and a cooperative parenting arrangement, rather than dwelling in fear, jealousy, entitlement and hate for what she did. There isn't any unforgiveness - everything she did that did hurt me I now know was never done with intent and I appreciate so much more the effort she did make (although in hindsight if she hadn't things would have come to ahead sooner and the inevitable divorce) It has been over 4 years and I wouldn't have felt jealous from day one. I found a new partner within a month and two years later we got married and I couldn't be happier. once I understood what the problem was I just felt sorry for her like she had an invisible disability and a whole area of life experience was out of her reach. Based on what you said, it appears that she has a boyfriend, and that it's moving fast. What do you THINK is happening over there? Well true I don't know for sure, but I doubt it is what you or I would be doing in the same situation. He will be putting pressure on to go further with levels of intimacy and she will be saying "yes, once we get married" knowing her and all the jigsaw parts that only made sense after figuring out the low libido it is extremely unlikely they have had sex, and while I would never encourage anyone to sin part of me wishes they would before taking the leap. Had her and I been having sex before marriage, yeah we would not have gotten married lol. She is in the early stages of "in love" where the relationship is new and exciting and she is happier I can hear it in her voice and I'm happy she is happy, but what do you say to someone who has just brought tickets on the Titanic? "Have the best time you can, but please leave the children with me" It's over. She's got a boyfriend. There's no reason to explain it or resolve it now, if you weren't able to do so when you were together. You need to play the ball from where it has landed and instead of trying to be "right" or "righteous" about the marriage, which is over, figure out how to to position yourself, and your wife, and any other adults in your child's life, for success and happiness. Or, you can continue to try to sabotage her happiness by insulting her boyfriends and burn their house down around them - but it strikes me as a bad plan. It's not so much about trying to be "right" at the time of leaving I wanted her to understand it wasn't either of our "fault" because once I realized it was just a extreme libido mismatch then all my pain and unforgiveness melted away and I wanted that for her too. Think of the scene in Rocky & Diana (1985) where Rocky finds a way to explain colour to Diana using hot and cold - that was the breakthrough I was looking for. I'm prioritizing "safety" for my child before success or happiness, the effects of child sexual abuse are devastating for the child who often go on to be perpetrators or enablers themselves and could even be responsible for the Ex's low libido - but she has no memory about it. The person to take that up with is her. Not with others, unless you have reason to believe something wrong happened. Coming in with guns blazing about pedophilia and talking about his partner's supposed frigidity (his own experience may be quite different) is unlikely to create an ally. Exactly the reason for the thread I have tried discussing it with her, but having the extremely low libido she just can't seem to understand even the marriage counselor was surprised. It is possible he has a low libido himself and that is why he told her "I would love you whatever the frequency" and also looking at his reply he doesn't mention pedophilia he could simply be offended at the suggestion he might physically harm children if frustrated because the significance of him living with my daughter and me living with someone else's sons isn't a differentiating factor to him. If that were the case I couldn't be happier, I still think healthy boundaries should be put in place and there is the question about why the rush to get married as they are both looking for a sibling type relationship, but if he has a low libido then "Not my show, not my monkeys" I know 3 people with extremely low libidos and they share common related personalities, would never talk about sex, don't understand dirty jokes (and interestingly but probably unrelated struggle with present giving or rather have no awkwardness about receiving gifts from people, but never giving them) and if they saw a man following a child into a restroom then would just think "Oh two people going to the toilet at the same time" and they wouldn't be counting the seconds before calling out "are you ok in there?" For example they could look at Biden pictures  and see nothing for concern, where the rest of us just feel sick. It is my expectation I'm not alone in having a hard time explaining to the low libido person that children need parents to protect them and I'm really looking for people here with experience and hopefully success in getting some traction. All I feel I have left is to: 1) Threaten Ex that if anything did happen that the communications between the Ex and myself would be shown to the authorities/child to show I had done everything I could to prevent it which could lead to her being charged for neglect / being an enabler.
2) Try mediation again, there is a mutual friend who used to work for DOCS (child protection) and she is closer to Ex than me so would be on her side/have her trust. I could try to involve her to get some agreement on boundaries.
3) Being amply capable myself just do what my instinct tells me and tell him "Stop going into her bedroom, being alone with them or trying to exert authority over them - touch DD and it will be the last thing you do."
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Post by whatnext on Apr 12, 2021 23:24:03 GMT -5
Turning things around if my new partners Ex said he had some boundaries like I shouldn't go into the boys bedrooms, discipline them or be alone with them - well there wouldn't be any argument because that was already put in place by me from day one. From memory he only made one request and that was the boys name didn't get changed - again was a no brainier "done"
Actually my now wife was disappointing/frustrated that I wouldn't discipline her children, it was just a natural line in the sand for me. But since we have read about it online and how it can lead to abuse we both agree it is the right way to bring them up. I will offer advice in private about what I think suitable behavior modification steps could be taken, but there is no pressure and the decision and responsibility is hers alone.
It is a very happy home, when the husband and wife are both secure, happy and fulfilled it is a peaceful environment the opposite of how it was with the Ex
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Post by whatnext on Apr 13, 2021 10:39:46 GMT -5
My own personal ‘R’ (now ex wife) once insinuated, without any evidence other than my own libido, that I would molest our kids. I did not like that ONE GOD DAMN BIT! Additionally, this is one of the sweet little nothings from my prior marriage that has proven more traumatic than her sexual refusal. If I had received that email above, I would likely be sitting in DDs bedroom right now in spite of your instructions. I would not lay a finger on her, however, because that would be vulgar and disgusting. New guy doesn’t owe you a damn thing. I don’t think putting these restrictions on him is going to achieve the desired result. It may make things worse. At the start of my new relationship R forbade the children from staying with me in my now wife's house until after she had met her (there is 600klms between us), siting claims N might abuse (not sexually) the children, or the eldest step-son might bully our DS (DS is about 4 years younger). I could have spat the dummy and thrown my toys around but actually I was surprised and pleased she was actually thinking about the children - I celebrated a little too prematurely because when I recalled that fact to her 4 years on she is now down playing it and saying this is different because then the breakup was still fresh and she wasn't ready lol all that time I thought she was thinking about the children and it was her she was thinking about. I get the impression he might be a bit arrogant, not just his reply but somethings on his Facebook profile also. I haven't put any restrictions on him, my question to him was what he would do to mitigate the risk, I had hoped he would come up with similar boundaries I had discussed with R. That's interesting your R would insinuate that, just for my curiosity (and please don't misunderstand my question) despite the lack of evidence do you think in her mind it was a genuine concern or purely vexatious. In my situation my, R couldn't come to that idea herself even if she witnessed strong evidence (which there is none, just to be clear) Example: I actually had to get the girl from my first affair to talk to her to prove it happened before she would believe me. Thankfully R is still on relatively good terms although my patience is starting to run low with her not taking these concerns seriously, it is just like I say anything connected with sex and she put her fingers in her ears and says "la la la la" until I stop talking New guy doesn’t owe you a damn thing. My fault for thinking everyone is alike, with my new wife I always find the positives with her Ex and have pushed her to take the boys to see him (he is 1,000 klms away) I made it my priority for the boys to have a better relationship with him after I arrived than before. If he says he wants to visit the boys any plans we had get changed, he is their dad and they don't see him much. I get on well with him although with the distance only see him 2-3 times a year sadly for the boys I like what northstarmom said. Focus on DD. Empower her to control the situation in a way that you cannot. I like what northstarmom said too, and I do take the lead in talking to the kids in an age appropriate way about what is ok and what is not. DS is about to start having wet dreams and DD her cycle could start R wouldn't talk to them to prepare them and just expect the school to. If New guy listens in on our phone call he'll probably accuse me of coaching her to make a accusation lol |
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Post by Apocrypha on Apr 14, 2021 13:18:01 GMT -5
You just posed pedophilia statistics to your exwife's boyfriend and you don't think it's intended to suggest something? Just a general knowledge fact? It looks to me like you are using "concern for your child" as a route toward insulting and threatening your wife's relationships. And because of some insecurities that is how he may have taken it - of course I can see that, but it wasn't the intention. There are two types of pedophile ones with a per-disposition and ones that become one ie regress due to stresses. At worst my message could be interpreted as trying to prevent the latter developing (although privately I do hold very very mild concerns based on unusual to me behaviors so far) It would be perfectly reasonable to "take it that way" whether he was insecure or not. It was your statement to him that appears unreasonable, given the circumstances you described - not his reaction to them. Your claim that he was "insecure" about being charged with pedophilia is you, extending same behavior here. Whether or not one is a pedophile, the accusation itself is so radioactive that it would ruin a reputation, whether one was completely innocent or not. By suggesting such a thing to his face, on such flimsy or even non-existent evidence, on what appears to be your first time interacting with him, and inappropriately commenting on your ex-wife's sexual proclivities to him - you appear to be attempting to intimidate him. Your "reason" for suggesting this accusation and discussing your ex-wife's sexual aversion with him, is that you think that a person in a celibate relationship will be drawn to children. This line of thinking - if was true (and it isn't) - implicates YOU of what you are accusing him. It implies that YOU believe it reasonable to be attracted to children if you are in a celibate relationship. You understand that it isn't, right? The psychological term is called "projection" - in which someone accuses others of their own pathology, perhaps believing that their pathology is just the way everyone in the same situation thinks. If you had presented yourself to me in the same way, I'd think you were deliberately trying to intimidate me, that you'd go to any length to do it, and I might suspect that YOU were the pedophile. It's just such a strange thing to say to someone. I'm not trying to to say this to beat you up, or to invalidate how you feel about your marriage or about the awkwardness and difficulty of having to deal with another person acting in a parental role around your child when you aren't there. I'm suggesting that if you don't know this already, your method of engagement is very likely to backfire and further your estrangement. If someone said that to me, I'd make a records of it in case I needed to prove a pattern of harassment. Or if I wasn't particularly invested, I might find that a crazy or inappropriate ex-husband might simply prove to be too much heat to handle and end the relationship - in which case your ex-wife may come back at you with a charge of harassment. I'd suggest you talk to a lawyer if you have legitimate concerns. Why are you engaging your ex-wife, or her partner, in a discussion about her personal sexual proclivities? It's just so weird. Do you think you are more likely to work that out now than in marriage? Have you considered a mediator - as a group - to work out healthy parenting and marital boundaries? |
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Post by mirrororchid on Apr 15, 2021 6:06:54 GMT -5
Apocrypha has said so much of everything I would have, but he's taken substantial time to do so, carefully phrasing it. Over the time I've been here, he is consistently thoughtful and helpful. Please take this as an earnest effort to steer you from worse outcomes. I think Apocrypha may be addressing your concerns alone only because other members have no issue with his response. He's giving solid advice. One thing I don't remember being said is that many, many men find themselves sex-starved and the result is almost always leaving the partner, or an affair with an adult woman. (Male pedophiles are four times as common, so I use the male pronoun here.). You act as though they are on a desert island and there's either your ex-wife, your daughter, or nobody. That's a bit odd. Flip the script. It's two years from now. You've been wrong all along. This guy is an amazing stepdad. So much so, you're feeling a bit insecure. He's that good. Hanging over your relationship with this man your daughter adores is the six months of accusations and harassment you pointlessly abused him with. Everyone, including you, knows you were wrong. What's that like? What level of awkward takes place when you're visiting for Thanksgiving and your daughter's stepdad offers you a cold one? If he's okay, where do you end up? |
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Post by whatnext on Apr 15, 2021 6:37:03 GMT -5
Your "reason" for suggesting this accusation and discussing your ex-wife's sexual aversion with him, is that you think that a person in a celibate relationship will be drawn to children. I think that a person in a surprise forced celibate relationship will be drawn to alternatives which could include non-biologically related children. To argue against this you or I would need more qualification than Dr. Groth the widely accepted authority who has distinguished two types of child sexual offenders: those who have never developed an adult perspective on sexuality and are thus *fixated* on sexual relations with children, and those who have *regressed* due to stress. I accept there isn't enough evidence for a *fixated* pedophile accusation just a few yellow flags. But given more than half of pedophiles are of the *regressed* type and I can't imagine a more likely (or more stressful situation) than a forced celibacy to be a motivating factor. This line of thinking - if was true (and it isn't) - implicates YOU of what you are accusing him. It implies that YOU believe it reasonable to be attracted to children if you are in a celibate relationship. You understand that it isn't, right? The psychological term is called "projection" - in which someone accuses others of their own pathology, perhaps believing that their pathology is just the way everyone in the same situation thinks. If you had presented yourself to me in the same way, I'd think you were deliberately trying to intimidate me, that you'd go to any length to do it, and I might suspect that YOU were the pedophile. It's just such a strange thing to say to someone. Ultimately one could argue EVERYONE has the prospect of becoming a *regressed* pedophile given enough stress according to Dr Groth's definition - and you may well say even himself! I'm not concerned about the counter accusation as it is easily dismissed I am neither a *fixated* pedophile as I have never had that orientation and as I am without stress and fully sexually satisfied there is no reason to expect I could become a *regressed* pedophile. I'm not trying to to say this to beat you up, or to invalidate how you feel about your marriage or about the awkwardness and difficulty of having to deal with another person acting in a parental role around your child when you aren't there. I'm suggesting that if you don't know this already, your method of engagement is very likely to backfire and further your estrangement. If someone said that to me, I'd make a records of it in case I needed to prove a pattern of harassment. Or if I wasn't particularly invested, I might find that a crazy or inappropriate ex-husband might simply prove to be too much heat to handle and end the relationship - in which case your ex-wife may come back at you with a charge of harassment. I'd suggest you talk to a lawyer if you have legitimate concerns. No worries even if you were, I didn't come here just for support, only true friends will tell you if you smell! - I'd rather know every side of an argument than just my own. Yes there is a risk of further estrangement, and of frightening off an otherwise good relationship from happening. Suppose though just for a moment that I'm correct and her libido really is that low and she wouldn't discuss it openly/honestly (due to lack of knowledge and embarrassment rather than a deliberate deception) even if children were not involved I would still hope gentleman to gentleman if I was the new partner her ex would say something. Suppose an Ex had HIV and you knew she wasn't going to tell a new partner wouldn't you say something? (yes that is an extreme example but the point is the same). Suppose also just for arguments sake that Dr Groth is correct and pedophilia can be developed from stress, lack of alternatives and opportunity. DD would be in danger / at risk and not pointing it out now would leave some guilt with me, especially if I am also correct that not only has the ex got no libido she is also oblivious to anything to do with sex and so less responsible. Would you like to hold DD's hand, look her in the eye and say "Sorry, it was me who talked your dad out of trying to prevent that from happening"? Why are you engaging your ex-wife, or her partner, in a discussion about her personal sexual proclivities? It's just so weird. Do you think you are more likely to work that out now than in marriage? Have you considered a mediator - as a group - to work out healthy parenting and marital boundaries? The minor self harm incidents happened during talks before and around the time of separation. With the exception of this new relationship - (in last week or so) I had not discussed the libido mismatch topic for the last 3+ years (Oh maybe once briefly after I found some adult material in DS(11) phone history which was dated 6 months old, and questioned why she hadn't already found it and talked to him/me about it - it wasn't a fight, but I did link her blase attitude to the libido issue). Ordinarily I agree it would seem weird, but this is an un-ordinary situation. There are people who refuse sex for power/control, others who just can't keep up - have a lower libido and lastly there are some, very few who the thought of sex actually terrifies them and would do anything to get out of it - this is Ex In what I originally thought was an unrelated matter and so not worth mentioning before, Ex and I have been back and forth about the kids spending more time with me and/or splitting them up. She keeps saying "you left us" and I have to correct "No, sorry, I left you - not the kids" she can see them as possessions and not little people who are only in adult care/responsibility up to adulthood where they become independent. As part of the blaming me for leaving and not accepting any fault she feels I've forfeited any rights and this comes out in her language "my children", "allow them to talk to you/spend time with you" etc etc (I've actually started saying "my children" back to her because asking her to refrain from talking like that hasn't worked). Anyway we did the pre-court required mediation about 6 months ago with the agreed points being that the children would be split for a year and in private she planned to move closer (interstate about 8h drive) during that year so the kids could spend more time together and we would both see them more. I was 50/50 about bothering to convert the points into consent orders, but since she had broken her word of "no surprises or learning significant changes via the children" I thought "Yeah better get it written in stone, just in case". Well wouldn't you know it I come across the following clause/point which I wasn't going to put in the consent orders as having a vague "get out of jail clause" would be redundant as serious circumstance changes can/would nullify court orders anyway. "We agree that in the event of any change of living circumstances for either parent, we will review the above arrangements (with the assistance of mediation if necessary)." It could be love, but right now it's looking more like strategy to me... At the time I thought it was an odd point to insist was in the mediation agreement. Disappointing if I'm right, needless to say the consent orders are being sent and I already have the mediation certificate all ready to go if needed |
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