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Post by bozodeclowne on Feb 22, 2021 17:03:20 GMT -5
A cautionary tale for those of you (us) in the choosing to stay camp, whether you are in for the long haul, or have some vague idea of what a future exit plan might look like:
I replaced our ancient garage-door opener recently. It was a chain-driven beast, all groans and shudders. By contrast, the new belt-driven model is almost silent. Quiet enough that it will not even wake the normally-alert dog from his snooze by the fireplace. A few days later I arrived home after running some errands and sat down to take my boots off in the mudroom. I'm not an especially graceful guy, but was apparently quiet enough that no one else in the house knew I had entered. I could hear my wife in conversation 2 rooms away. She's lost a bit of hearing over the years, and tends to speak a bit louder than most.
She was discussing her plan to divorce me once our daughter is settled in college - 18 months from now. WTF? Did I mention this discussion was being had with said daughter? Double WTF? I didn't catch most of the conversation, but did manage to make out "I can put up with anything for 2 years, as long as I know you'll be OK". Not sure what that refers to, as our relationship is pretty low-key these days. We're mostly just co-parents and housemates. Clearly I'm some sort of monster, but nobody ever bothered to let me know!
I was too shocked to react at that time, but did soft-confront in a later conversation, where I essentially stated "I know you are planning to divorce me, and have openly discussed this with our children". She denied. I didn't bother to pursue beyond that. What would be the point? I guess I'm old-school. I have never talked to the children about their parents' relationship, and made it a point to never bad-mouth their mother. Thought that was a mutual attitude I shared with my wife.
Anyway, just something to think about. That refuser you've resigned yourself to staying with may just have other plans they haven't shared with you!
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Post by baza on Feb 22, 2021 18:10:22 GMT -5
This is not as unusual as you might think. There's quite a few examples in here where the refused spouse is busy wondering what to do, only to find the refuser has made a pre-emptive strike and filed first. That's why any married person needs to know how not being married would shake out for them - because ALL marriages end ... either by the death of the spouse, or divorce. Going through your back stories Brother bozodeclowne, it's not clear whether you have a contingency plan for this scenario. It would be smart to see a lawyer in your jurisdiction and develop such a plan. On a more positive note, you now know she wants to divorce. So do you (I think) so you are some chance of negotiating a collaborative parting of the ways. |
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Post by worksforme2 on Feb 22, 2021 18:15:04 GMT -5
Once I decided I was done I ceased all types of affection toward my W. It didn't take her long to see a lawyer as to how things would shake out for her. There were no apologies from her, no attempts to work out something mutually beneficial or even tolerable. She could have stayed with me if she had wanted to. She wasn't hard to have around other than me wanting to f*ck her pretty often. Clearly the idea of divorce was already in her mind and she acted on it quickly. So you are right. If one is considering divorce it is best to keep in mind your spouse may well be thinking along the same lines.
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Post by saarinista on Feb 22, 2021 20:18:04 GMT -5
So bozodeclowne did YOU make an appointment with a lawyer? Also, if I may speak now as someone who was once the child of parents in a conflict-filled, not good marriage-it's not bad-mouthing your spouse to tell adult offspring that your marriage is not good. It's not bad mouthing to judiciously tell the truth. Do you have to tell your kids about your sex life? No. But I don't even think that's the worst thing to do. The kids have already figured out your marriage sucks. Trust me. |
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Post by jerri on Feb 22, 2021 23:12:11 GMT -5
That's not a nice Valentine's gift. Did she bother to get you anything? Did something happen recently? My H wants to divorce when he feels guilty or anxious that I will leave him. Any chance that is a possibility?
Any chance you can talk to your daughter? Might be a good source of information. I know it's not kosher but depending, some information could be very useful especially since your wife is less than honest.
Deny, Deny, Deny, I am kind of shocked she denied it. What's to hide? Be very careful of her actions there may be something shady going on as well. Your daughter knows a bit of information and no doubt she thinks she told you the secret.
What about seeing a therapist and a lawyer? (not a counselor) If applicable. Especially if you want to delay more than a couple of years to get...in order.
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Post by bozodeclowne on Feb 23, 2021 11:21:41 GMT -5
So bozodeclowne did YOU make an appointment with a lawyer? Also, if I may speak now as someone who was once the child of parents in a conflict-filled, not good marriage-it's not bad-mouthing your spouse to tell adult offspring that your marriage is not good. It's not bad mouthing to judiciously tell the truth. Do you have to tell your kids about your sex life? No. But I don't even think that's the worst thing to do. The kids have already figured out your marriage sucks. Trust me. An old high-school friend is an attorney, and we had a sit-down years ago when my wife started pulling away. At the time, divorce looked pretty bleak for me. A lot in our personal situation has changed since then, making a potential divorce less complicated in some respects and more in others. Pretty typical, I'm sure. I'm currently in the "I really need to make a plan" mindset, with a lingering shot of hopium that "maybe I can still find a way to save this". Objectively I know that is dumb, but here were are... I don't disagree that children pick up on marital issues, but that doesn't mean they should necessarily be part of the conversation, particularly if you are telling your spouse one thing and your child another. In my case, I had noticed a change in attitude with our daughter - a vague dismissive contempt toward me, if you will. Eye-rolling, etc. Figured she was just at that age. I well remember when I realized my parents were morons and I had all the answers to life's questions! Now, I'm not so sure. Having overheard part of that conversation with her mother, I'm left to wonder if something else is going on. To be clear, like every couple we have had frequent relationship discussions over the years. My wife has always insisted she loved me, wanted our marriage, to grow old together, etc. That includes recent discussions. With the help of forums like this, I've been awakened to the fact that her words do not match her actions. I just did not expect that her words to me would not match what she was saying to others. The fact that "others" in at least one case is our daughter is devastating. |
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Post by Handy on Feb 23, 2021 12:20:32 GMT -5
Bozodeclowne, sometimes people say one thing because that is how they feel "AT THE MOMENT" but wouldn't or couldn't actually carry out what they talk about.
I even see that "I wish I was divorced" here on the forum but no action happens.
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Post by saarinista on Feb 23, 2021 12:53:20 GMT -5
Well alas its clear that her actions DON'T always match what she says.
She hasn't lived up to her marital vows which included sexual fidelity in a long time, either, has she?
People wish and want. Wishes and wants don't always match reality.
I'm sorry you are devastated.
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Post by northstarmom on Feb 23, 2021 18:12:31 GMT -5
When after being married for 34 years, the last 8 of them sexlessness, I decided to divorce, I learned that my husband thought he had a 3-year old with a woman overseas. He said he’d been staying with me for fear I’d kill myself if he wanted a divorce! If he had instigated a divorce I would have been happy! I was relieved to leave the marriage.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2021 11:18:11 GMT -5
When after being married for 34 years, the last 8 of them sexlessness, I decided to divorce, I learned that my husband thought he had a 3-year old with a woman overseas. He said he’d been staying with me for fear I’d kill myself if he wanted a divorce! If he had instigated a divorce I would have been happy! I was relieved to leave the marriage. I wonder sometimes what some real honesty would do. I don't really get the feeling my W keeps me around except for habit and maybe money. But, I'm afraid to ask. |
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Post by saarinista on Feb 24, 2021 11:57:08 GMT -5
When after being married for 34 years, the last 8 of them sexlessness, I decided to divorce, I learned that my husband thought he had a 3-year old with a woman overseas. He said he’d been staying with me for fear I’d kill myself if he wanted a divorce! If he had instigated a divorce I would have been happy! I was relieved to leave the marriage. I wonder sometimes what some real honesty would do. I don't really get the feeling my W keeps me around except for habit and maybe money. But, I'm afraid to ask. What's the worst that can happen if you ask? |
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Post by bozodeclowne on Feb 24, 2021 12:10:31 GMT -5
Agreed, @tooyoungtobeold2 . I've been on a truth crusade for the past 4 years. Asked repeatedly if she was done to just let me know, so we don't get 5 or 10 years older, only to find out there was no chance in the first place. For some I'd guess the denial is part of hoping, even subconsciously, that we'll get fed up and be the bad guy/girl that files. northstarmom - I'm so sorry. That revelation just adds insult to injury. In fact, my "truth above all" attitude arose upon finding out a somewhat-similar secret, albeit dating to just before our marriage. It was so long ago that the details were secondary to the amount of lying that had to be done to keep that secret. My pointing out how that secret-keeping had to have been detrimental to our marriage resulted in they stereotypical " See? I knew this is how you'd react. That's why I never told you." It was that statement that got me wondering what else I didn't know, and ultimately led me to sites like ILIASM. saarinista - Upon reflection, "devastating" is probably getting a bit ahead of myself. We've all seen divorces where one spouse either uses the children as pawns, manipulates them to turn against the other spouse, older children decide they need to "protect" Mom or Dad, etc. Think I may be seeing a bit of the latter, but will have to have a talk with our daughter. |
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Post by northstarmom on Feb 24, 2021 13:31:02 GMT -5
tooyoungtobeold said: "I wonder sometimes what some real honesty would do. I don't really get the feeling my W keeps me around except for habit and maybe money. But, I'm afraid to ask."
What difference would her answer make to you? The more important question is why you stay around?
bozodeclown said : "
northstarmom - I'm so sorry. That revelation just adds insult to injury. In fact, my "truth above all" attitude arose upon finding out a somewhat-similar secret, albeit dating to just before our marriage. It was so long ago that the details were secondary to the amount of lying that had to be done to keep that secret. My pointing out how that secret-keeping had to have been detrimental to our marriage resulted in they stereotypical "See? I knew this is how you'd react. That's why I never told you." It was that statement that got me wondering what else I didn't know, and ultimately led me to sites like ILIASM."
Nothing to be sorry about! I was glad to learn that my refuse was having an affair and even was stupid enough to think his lover's child was his. (DNA tests that I requested in our divorce settlement proved the child was not his). I had no desire to remain married to a man who'd hide something like that from me so learning about the truth kept me from second-guessing myself about wanting a divorce. It also allowed me to leave the marriage looking like a saint. I remain friends with most of my ex's family. I also remain friends (distant friends since we live about 9,000 miles apart now) with my ex. Only thing I'm sorry about is my not asking for a divorce earlier. Yes, lack of sex from a person who's sexually capable is a reason to divorce!
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Post by jerri on Feb 25, 2021 1:46:15 GMT -5
If you need it later. I know you are undecided, but by then I will have lost it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2021 17:46:37 GMT -5
tooyoungtobeold said: "I wonder sometimes what some real honesty would do. I don't really get the feeling my W keeps me around except for habit and maybe money. But, I'm afraid to ask." What difference would her answer make to you? The more important question is why you stay around? bozodeclown said : " northstarmom - I'm so sorry. That revelation just adds insult to injury. In fact, my "truth above all" attitude arose upon finding out a somewhat-similar secret, albeit dating to just before our marriage. It was so long ago that the details were secondary to the amount of lying that had to be done to keep that secret. My pointing out how that secret-keeping had to have been detrimental to our marriage resulted in they stereotypical "See? I knew this is how you'd react. That's why I never told you." It was that statement that got me wondering what else I didn't know, and ultimately led me to sites like ILIASM." Nothing to be sorry about! I was glad to learn that my refuse was having an affair and even was stupid enough to think his lover's child was his. (DNA tests that I requested in our divorce settlement proved the child was not his). I had no desire to remain married to a man who'd hide something like that from me so learning about the truth kept me from second-guessing myself about wanting a divorce. It also allowed me to leave the marriage looking like a saint. I remain friends with most of my ex's family. I also remain friends (distant friends since we live about 9,000 miles apart now) with my ex. Only thing I'm sorry about is my not asking for a divorce earlier. Yes, lack of sex from a person who's sexually capable is a reason to divorce! Afraid to ask is probably the wrong phrase. The past 2-years have involved moving, buying land, designing a house, building a house and now wrapping up a house (landscape, exterior details, maybe finish the unfinished basement) and I'm exhausted. We had an interaction this morning over, of all things, peanut butter. I like peanut butter. I mean, I really like peanut butter. Any extra pounds I have....it's from peanut butter calories. She doesn't really do peanut butter but I know it's annoying to her if she decides to make a recipe or something with PB and I've eaten it all. So, my solution was that we buy one big thing of creamy peanut butter (her preference and I don't like it) and a small one of crunchy. I'll stick to my crunchy. This morning she was throwing something away in the trash and saw a big PB container and assumed it was "her" creamy and I had eaten it. She asked me to please just buy large things of PB and stop being in denial that I won't eat hers. The catch was that it wasn't hers, it was an older almost-empty container and I made lunch with it and threw it away. I got defensive asked why she cared, pointed out that it wasn't her creamy, etc. Anyway. The point is that toward the end she said this is why she doesn't bring things up, because I get defensive. I agreed and also said that she brings up many things and I only occasionally get defensive. blah, blah, blah, insert minor bickering here. Here's the point. She said, "older couples just get this way" and I asked, "I don't want that, do you want that?". Her, "No" was telling. Yeah, she's done with me too. She's only staying because of finances and she's a good planner so she probably has an exit strategy. Why don't I bring it up? I don't have the energy and it's seeming more and more likely that any it that I bring up will cascade into another couple years of chaos of a divorce. |
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