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Post by heathcliff on Aug 31, 2020 23:31:02 GMT -5
I think it has been about a year since I last posted here. It has been a little longer than that since I last had sex with my wife.
After years of no sex, we briefly started up again in 2019. After the last time my wife and I had sex, I regretted doing it, and I realized that I have no interest in sex with her anymore. I don't think I will ever have sex with her again.
I am staying with her for the kids. 4 more years, at which point they will both be off to college, and shortly after that I will go my separate way. I like our life together, I get along with her, and we live comfortably, but I do not love her anymore. She probably knows this. She tries to be friendly, but we have definitely pulled back from each other, and are more roommates than husband and wife. We had a new "talk" over a year ago, although in this one, I told her she could do whatever she wanted. We never resolved exactly what that meant or what the implications of that were, and she didn't ask me any questions about what I would do. She certainly never agreed to anything (because she never resolves anything important), but I don't give a shit anymore so I am not going to bring it up again if she doesn't. I said everything I am going to say to her on this topic, and I actually put a lot of it in writing. I think Covid is going to crimp everyone's style for a while, so it isn't like I am going to start hooking up on the side or anything.
Having no interest in sex with her and no longer seeing her as a sexual being, does make me appreciate her perspective a little more. She reached that point with me years ago. She should have said something to me, and not doing so was completely selfish but she is a selfish person which I knew when I asked her to marry me. Now I am at the same point. I simply do not want to have sex with her anymore.
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Post by baza on Sept 1, 2020 1:34:27 GMT -5
Welcome back Brother heathcliff . It was suggested (on your May 2019 postings) that you see a lawyer in your jurisdiction to establish how a divorce would shake out for you. It's not clear whether you have done this pivotal bit of homework yet. If you haven't, it would be a good idea to do so .... under two scenarios (1) - based on 4 years time (2) based on pretty much now. It may be to your advantage (or perhaps disadvantage) to wait 4 years It may disadvantage you (or perhaps be to your advantage) to act more immediately. You need to know, so you can make a fully informed choice. Meantime, this stage of where you don't want to root her (and vice versa) simplifies things a fair bit. With that off the table you can deal solely with the facts. Again, welcome back.
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Post by mirrororchid on Sept 1, 2020 4:53:01 GMT -5
Welcome back Brother heathcliff . It was suggested (on your May 2019 postings) that you see a lawyer in your jurisdiction to establish how a divorce would shake out for you. It's not clear whether you have done this pivotal bit of homework yet. If you haven't, it would be a good idea to do so .... under two scenarios (1) - based on 4 years time (2) based on pretty much now. It may be to your advantage (or perhaps disadvantage) to wait 4 years It may disadvantage you (or perhaps be to your advantage) to act more immediately. You need to know, so you can make a fully informed choice. Meantime, this stage of where you don't want to root her (and vice versa) simplifies things a fair bit. With that off the table you can deal solely with the facts. Again, welcome back. I did a little research at Baza and others' behest. He has a point. Some states have a magic threshold year where you go from temporary alimony to permanent. More sensible states say you owe alimony for a fraction of each year you were married. You're taking on a fraction of four more years. To what end? Has anyone heard of divorcing a refuser secretly? Kind of an un-elopement? No one needs to know. You keep wearing the rings. You don't tell anyone. You just make the "roommates" designation formal and stop the meter from running. The ethics of dating when divorced take hold instead of "cheating". Not even the kids have to be informed, so they can have whatever advantages the intact household is supposed to provide. Some people dread the stigma of divorce (more so than the stigma of refusal. THAT refusers love keeping secret.). An un-elopement allows the reputable aura of marriage without that inconvenient implied sexual obligation. The obvious response is, what if the refuser refuses to cohabitate? I have to wonder what the refuser stays married for if living together sexless and divorced isn't equally good. If they do like it just as well, that would speak volumes, wouldn't it? Consider this post a thought exercise and only a serious suggestion for maybe one person in three hundred where it would work.
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Post by heathcliff on Sept 11, 2020 10:00:53 GMT -5
I did have a short conversation. Outside of a handful of states, once the kids are out of the house, infidelity is not a factor in alimony 90%+ of the time. Obviously anyone can get a bad judge, but most family court judges are looking to clear their case load, not start long processes. Adultery has no impact on alimony in almost half the states, and most of the rest where adultery is a factor have a high bar for proving the affair was the cause of the divorce and justified punitive alimony.
The attorney said that alimony is generally only a significant risk in a divorce if A) there is a major wage gap between spouses and B) there are kids involved. I am in good shape on A, and will be in good shape on B if I wait 4 years. In situations like mine, virtually all divorces are "no fault" because it is so much cheaper in costs and expenses.
Most importantly, the benefit to me and the kids of being part of their daily life for the next 4 years far outweighs any financial consequences.
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Post by worksforme2 on Sept 11, 2020 12:16:57 GMT -5
Keep in mind that the 4yr. plan you speak of is your plan. Do you know what her plans are for when the kids are out of the nest? And 4 yrs is a pretty good length of time, any # of things could happen. Even possibly the scenario where she meets up with someone who rekindles her libido, or an old flame gets back in touch, and she decides to take you up on your generous offer to do whatever she wants. It's far easier for a woman to carry on an affair, especially is she is a sahm.
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Post by heathcliff on Sept 11, 2020 12:49:33 GMT -5
Keep in mind that the 4yr. plan you speak of is your plan. Do you know what her plans are for when the kids are out of the nest? And 4 yrs is a pretty good length of time, any # of things could happen. Even possibly the scenario where she meets up with someone who rekindles her libido, or an old flame gets back in touch, and she decides to take you up on your generous offer to do whatever she wants. It's far easier for a woman to carry on an affair, especially is she is a sahm. I hope she does if it makes her happy. I think monogamy is a relic from ancient times, and not necessary in a world with DNA tests and contraception. I think most marriages would be better off if monogamy was not the expectation going in. I know mine would have been.
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Post by saarinista on Sept 11, 2020 13:01:36 GMT -5
Trust me. Staying for the kids is a fool's game. I'm a child of parents who fought constantly but would never divorce. I wish they would have. I didn't want them miserable. PLEASE don't make your kids responsible for your misery.
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Post by heathcliff on Sept 11, 2020 13:08:04 GMT -5
Trust me. Staying for the kids is a fool's game. I'm a child of parents who fought constantly but would never divorce. I wish they would have. I didn't want them miserable. PLEASE don't make your kids responsible for your misery. I am not. Wife and I almost never fight.
This is a support board for people in a sexless marriage. I am going to ask people to not opine about my parenting or my kids. Thank you.
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Post by saarinista on Sept 11, 2020 16:33:22 GMT -5
Sounds like that's a touchy issue.
Hey take my thoughts for what they're worth. Many people feel completely free to not take my advice so you'll be in good company. 😉
An observation: no matter what people do, there's no guarantee how your kids will turn out.
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Post by baza on Sept 11, 2020 21:23:11 GMT -5
I did have a short conversation. Outside of a handful of states, once the kids are out of the house, infidelity is not a factor in alimony 90%+ of the time. Obviously anyone can get a bad judge, but most family court judges are looking to clear their case load, not start long processes. Adultery has no impact on alimony in almost half the states, and most of the rest where adultery is a factor have a high bar for proving the affair was the cause of the divorce and justified punitive alimony. The attorney said that alimony is generally only a significant risk in a divorce if A) there is a major wage gap between spouses and B) there are kids involved. I am in good shape on A, and will be in good shape on B if I wait 4 years. In situations like mine, virtually all divorces are "no fault" because it is so much cheaper in costs and expenses. Most importantly, the benefit to me and the kids of being part of their daily life for the next 4 years far outweighs any financial consequences. Good move in getting that legal advice Brother heathcliff . Now, you have some facts to go on. Next, would be your exit strategy, based on those legal facts. And, shoring up your support network. Also researching everything you can find on helping any minor children through the divorce process (should you end up going down this path) If you've got these things above into do-able shape, it then becomes a matter of - (a) - if you are going to go through with it (b) - when you are going to go through with it But either way, you can get prepared, now, and be ready for whatever comes up.
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Post by jerri on Sept 11, 2020 23:45:47 GMT -5
My baby brother got mistreated by my step father. Just seemed like he wasn't good enough. He was tough on my sis and brother. I would have been grateful if my mom and dad were making an effort because of us. For a while l no longer cared what my DH did. I really rocked the boat! Then a writer said, hate your job? Give 100% until you leave... I started working on my marriage and little by little the love started to show. Book was Feel The Fear and do it Anyway- Susan Jeffers
I stepped out of the marriage for sex and met a sexless man. We started working on our marriages and when he sent his kids to college his wife started responding to him with love. They are mirroring our behavior and he was the first to get sex after about 6-7 years without. It's not at all what he used to get from her during new relationship energy. Therapists and a divorce busting book by Michelle W. Davis helped us. I decided if nothing else, by the time I learned to deal with difficult people l would benefit no matter what. If I can make it work so can you! You're way ahead of me by not arguing with your wife. If not maybe someone else can use the info. My H is so much easier to be with and we a even closer now that we are in the covid crisis. I also went through a phase where I was insulted and didn't want to have sex with anyone who wasn't into me. ETA: not saying to follow my path, but it will certainly get you by and it always takes two to tango.
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Post by heathcliff on Sept 13, 2020 10:17:35 GMT -5
Jerri,
Thank you for that story. Keeping other people out of my kids' lives is one of the reasons i am going to tough this out. My wife has no interest in sex with me, but she may with other men. She still likes "bad boys", and I am concerned about the kind of man she might bring into her life. I don't care if she fucks a guy like that on the side, but I will not allow her to bring someone like that into our family in any authority position over my children. I also wouldn't want to inflict my family situation on another woman until the kids are up and out.
I have put 20+ years into this marriage and while it is not terrible, it isn't working. I want to get the kids off into the world, but after that, I do not feel like spending the rest of my life making the best of a bad situation. I also do not want to be celibate for the rest of my life, and I want to be desired. That is not something my wife is interested in doing. I know people who had great third acts to their lives after getting divorced in their late 40's and early 50's. There are things I want to do and places I want to go, and I don't want to do them with her.
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Post by jerri on Sept 19, 2020 2:56:44 GMT -5
The saying is - kids would rather be from a broken family than in one. We were having our challenges, yet we raised a kid that went to law school then was airborne JAG, then became head Federal prosecutor. We made an effort to raise him as balanced as we could without coddling him. He's not my blood, his mom ran off with a warrior. I told DH that we just celebrate that he has two moms and make sure he is well educated. I found out much later that my H stopped having sex with her and she went to a bar to search for a man and within months, never came back and left her child behind until she got over her new relationship energy. It's a coin toss with pros and cons. The fact that you don't fight in the home makes me think you are doing a fine job! (((Tight hugs)))
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Post by ironhamster on Sept 20, 2020 1:22:08 GMT -5
I've found, sadly, that just because the family breaks up the kids don't necessarily heal. My stay at home wife was the primary parent as per Illinois law, so, my youngest wasn't coming with me legally. The court documents state that she would do what she could to reasonably facilitate a relationship between me and my youngest. That's totally unenforceable bullshit and the lawyers know it when they put it in as a pacifier phrase. My ex toxified our relationship. I just sent her a gift for her eighteenth birthday. I have no idea what she wants, so I am making my best guess on what I knew. I wrote her a letter, in which I asked for contact and reminded her that I am not mad at her, she's mad at me. I don't expect to hear back. I worry about her mental health.
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Post by ironhamster on Sept 20, 2020 1:52:35 GMT -5
jerri, your AP's wife ended her embargo after six years? Wow. Even if not at that NRE that is unusual after such a long break. I wonder if it was just the kids growing up or if there was some other catalyst. One of my work friends in a SM was outsourcing with a woman at work when his refusing wife found out. She looked up the woman and invited the woman out to eat, figuring she'd be a skank. Actually, she was pretty gorgeous and had her act together, after which his wife decided it was time to step up her game. It didn't last, though. As soon as she felt comfortable her well dried up once again.
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