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Post by obobfla on Jun 1, 2016 18:42:39 GMT -5
@dan13732i so relate to you. Kind of wondering if she is capable of turning it on or expressing genuine affection for you. My wife cannot buy me a gift I like unless I drop a lot of hints, even after we have been married 15 years. She doesn't get it. Sounds like yours doesn't either.
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Post by Dan on Jun 1, 2016 19:30:43 GMT -5
Dan you threw me a curve at the end. You may indeed have a nice family time, but there is zero time spent as a couple that interacts with a family. You could still have better family time and live in separate households, and a strong possibility that the two of you would be better parents separate. Tell us if you think you and your wife are being great role models as a married couple? Are your children going to model themselves after the both of you? I appreciate your concerns. No: I don't think she'll change, and thus I have no motivation to try (yet again) to coach her to do so. Both for what you mention (no sense trying to teach a fish to walk) and also -- her own words -- she wants me to "love her the way she is". I guess I'd reply "I can accept you as a person the way you are; and love you (to a point); but that doesn't mean we're sexually/intimately compatible, nor that we have to stay together." Yes, I consider what I'm "modeling to my children"... but every time I consider it, I'm quite comfortable with what I model. I'm a father who is extremely engaged both in the family and community; I'm easy-going, supremely fair in an argument, and fun. Would be OK with my kids if they pick any of that up. And not a bad husband, either: I hope each of my kids has a great marriage someday, and if my sons model the patience that I've shown my wife over the years, I'd be proud of them for that. OK, this analogy is a bit morbid, but it seems to fit: if a man's mother was terminally ill -- let's say she was in good spirits and not too much pain and still cogent and sociable -- but she only had another 12 months to live, he might very well appreciate the time they have left: telling stories, catching a movie or two, cooking and eating together. No need to hasten the end: it will come of its own accord. So it is with the "family time" I refer to. "Family time" as I know it -- my children living under my roof and looking up to me as "dad" from the vantage point of their childhood -- is coming to an end (no matter what I do with my marriage) since my youngest will soon be headed off to college. I'm going to enjoy it to the fullest while it is still here: telling stories, catching a movie or two, cooking and eating together. No need to hasten the end: it will come of its own accord. Yes: due to advice from here (and EP ILIASM), I'm considering leaving sooner, too. But when I point out "this is why I'm still here", I'm NOT saying "I'm in totally agony about my marriage but being around my kids is at least this is one little ray of sunshine". Instead I'm saying "I'm so totally in to being with my kids and here for my kids at this time that my marital sexlessness is truly small potatoes." That doesn't mean I think the marriage is fixable, or that I'm not going to work on the exit plan, or neglect to "consult a lawyer in my jurisdiction", blah, blah, blah. Really, folks: no need to try yet again to make me fret about what I'm modeling or convince me that I could keep parenting from a separate household. (PS: While I was writing this -- literally, I had to stop writing for an hour -- my son came in the house weeping over some relationship troubles. He hadn't eaten all day, so I hugged him, got him a plate of the dinner I had cooked, talked to him to calm him down, and sent him to bed.)
(Related post from: EP ILIASM -- Why I'm sticking around for a bit.) |
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Post by obobfla on Jun 1, 2016 19:45:26 GMT -5
You must pack your parachute well
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Post by bballgirl on Jun 1, 2016 19:50:45 GMT -5
You are a good dad and husband Dan. Enjoy as much time as you want with your family. Divorce is a huge step and you have to be ready, as well as a caretaker your family has to be ready. You will know when it's time to initiate the next phase of your life. Hugs
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Post by greatcoastal on Jun 1, 2016 20:14:21 GMT -5
Dan, if I bring up things that are not true in your case, I am truly sorry. Many times they are reflections of what I am going through and by being open about it I hope it helps. Sometimes it is a roll of the dice.
You mentioned your youngest will be going to college? That is good news. Hopefully much of the responsibility of being a good " relationship role model " will be lifted.
You sound like the essence of unselfish commitment to the good of others.
Correct me on this, you do not mention the sharing of intimacy from your wife to you,shown in front of the children? Was there also the proper level of respect shown to you as an equal partner?
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Post by baza on Jun 1, 2016 21:00:05 GMT -5
You say you're not ready, and, given that you've made no move to consult a lawyer etc as yet, your actions are consistent with that.
So the really good thing here is that you are not bullshitting yourself.
That's a very sound and honest base to be working from.
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You ain't ready.
Nothing wrong with that.
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All I'd suggest is the boring unglamorous graft of seeing a lawyer etc can be conducted NOW, concurrently with your present thinking, and then, WHEN you actually ARE ready, you'll be well prepped.
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Post by Dan on Jun 1, 2016 21:36:44 GMT -5
All I'd suggest is the boring unglamorous graft of seeing a lawyer etc can be conducted NOW, concurrently with your present thinking, and then, WHEN you actually ARE ready, you'll be well prepped. Agreed. FWIW: I have found a list of lawyers that give free consultations in my area, and considered which one or two I would visit first. So: not true that I've "made no move". |
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Post by Dan on Jun 1, 2016 21:47:58 GMT -5
You are a good dad and husband Dan. Enjoy as much time as you want with your family. Divorce is a huge step and you have to be ready, as well as a caretaker your family has to be ready. You will know when it's time to initiate the next phase of your life. Hugs Thank you, bballgirl . Some may be inclined to call my plan the "college plan"... but I think I might be on the "bballgirl plan"! I say that because when we first started chatting about a year ago, you were convinced you needed three years to extract yourself, pending resolution of certain financial stuff. But a brief scare made you scrap those plans and pull the trigger... and you are already out. I've been figuring "about three years"; in my case the recent brief scare was she was SERIOUSLY talking about quitting her job, or taking a big pay cut. That was going to hurt my ability to pay for college for my kids, and likely also harm me when it came to alimony... I almost bolted for the lawyer immediately. While her plans to do that are pretty much dissipated, it has started me seriously thinking about "sooner" rather than "later"... Stay tuned. |
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Post by Dan on Jun 1, 2016 22:03:25 GMT -5
*sigh* ...I'm totally in the same state of mind. The whole trust thing hits home so hard for me. Everything you are going through and describing to me hits home so freaking hard. I feel for you Bro. That is my story too. This especially resonated: So if you "turn it on now", how can I tell the difference between "this is honestly you, wanting an intimate life" or just you trying to protect your lifestyle by keeping me around?I'm sorry you're going through this. I understand when you talk about not knowing whether to trust yourself as to whether she is being selfish to you or loving. It messes with your head. LIASM isn't normal so it makes us feel off kilter making it hard to know what to believe sometimes. Hang in. , LITW , warmways : thanks for reaching out with a "me too". Best to you, each, as well. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2016 22:23:48 GMT -5
Dan, you sound like a great husband and father. Kudos to you for being such an awesome role model in the midst of a less-than-ideal marriage (love your story about dropping everything to console your son - how sweet). I agree with bballgirl, you'll know when you're ready. Until then, keep working on your exit plan, keep being the good guy that you are, and the answer will come to you and then you'll act with courage. I thought I was ready to leave, ready to be single, and then during a very frank conversation about "us" last week, my husband took me into his arms and I completely melted. I am not ready to leave after all. So, I'll just keep working on my exit plan and waiting for the next right step to come along. I guess that means I'm still in limbo over here, but from a different vantage point - one of power. I do love my husband, but this time, I love him with more detachment to the outcome and with the full knowledge that if he chooses not to step up this time, I will walk away with my head held high. And I'm also working on my new strategy of "being the love I want to see in our marriage." Had a rough time with that today, but for the most part, I've been offering up love and kindness to him and he responds. Things have been better. I wonder if a VERY frank discussion with your wife about what you are thinking of doing might clarify things for both of you, i.e., "I'm planning to leave once the kids are gone, unless we make real changes." What if she wrapped her arms around you and promised to change, would you still want to leave? Food for thought. I understand feeling indifferent too. I have felt that at certain times as well, but then there's that melting thing I did... Wasn't expecting that. Good luck to you, Dan. I wish you peace with your decision, whatever it may be. You will get there.
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Post by Rhapsodee on Jun 2, 2016 0:39:24 GMT -5
Dan, I'm in the same situation. Reversed. He says I don't compromise. I'm too demanding. I have unrealistic expectations. Son in a nutshell, it's all my fault. I've become indifferent and it is dangerous. He feels it and is becoming anxious. He is alternately becoming more controlling and pouring on the affection. I'm acting out and going off on my own.
I understand perfectly why you stay. You are needed. You hold the family together and keep it stable. You know how important you are.
But we scream "WHAT ABOUT ME AND MY NEEDS!" Bang my head against a brick wall.
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Post by lwoetin on Jun 2, 2016 0:41:41 GMT -5
Conversations with my wife continue. I'm not pulling punches like I used to. She says "I don't know how to be intimate with you because you are so mad at me (about sex)." Yes, there was a time I was mad at her -- venting at her for my extreme sexual frustration. But my reply this time was "I'm not mad at you now; it's much worse. Now I pretty much don't care." Anger is not effective with my wife either. To break the monotony of a sexless marriage, on Mother's day I told her I rejoined match.com and that I was unhappy at home. That got her pissed and also her attention. Good luck in discovering where your marriage is heading, Dan. I hope there is a happy solution. |
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Post by baza on Jun 2, 2016 1:52:21 GMT -5
You likely don't need another troublesome viewpoint to consider Brother Dan, but a re-read of your run of stories raises another aspect, and it would be delinquent not to mention it.
It is this -
you have given your missus a huge heads up here, and, if she has her wits about her, she'll be off to see a lawyer in the jurisdiction to establish how a divorce would shake out for her. . . . it would be the logical and smart thing for her to do.
And, should she find that her filing would be advantageous to her. . . . . then this could spin off at a highly inconvenient tangent.
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Maybe, in your jurisdiction it doesn't matter who files first as far as the distribution of assets / custody etc etc goes.
But then again, it might matter.
And it would be awful to see you get blindsided.
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Post by worksforme2 on Jun 2, 2016 7:20:52 GMT -5
I wonder if a VERY frank discussion with your wife about what you are thinking of doing might clarify things for both of you, i.e., "I'm planning to leave once the kids are gone, unless we make real changes." What if she wrapped her arms around you and promised to change, would you still want to leave? Food for thought. 4 elle,.....I don't remember you from the old EP ILIASM days, but that could just be my poor memory. Dry Creek references a story I wrote about 2 and 1/2 yrs. ago. The story followed the 3rd discussion I had with my then W about going along with my having a FWB to relieve her of the burden of having to partake of something she found so distasteful. Our marriage would continue without the pressure of the forced(my part) and unwanted(hers) intimacy. She was adamantly opposed so I stated I could no longer continue in the marriage. More discussion followed and she said she want to try one more time to fix the lack of intimacy. So I gave it 1 more try. And for about 3 months it was like old times. We were active about 3 times a week and she was much more affectionate in other ways and we talked about us as opposed to "how was your day". But then the intimacy suddenly stopped again and she went back to refusing and delaying with the promise of "maybe tomorrow". She just didn't have the will or desire to continue. Intimacy simply wasn't something she needed or wanted so she couldn't sustain the role of a wife who wanted to be intimate with her husband. Security yes, continuity yes, travel yes, the trappings of a successful marriage yes, but love and affection, no thanks, she don't need that. That same scenario played itself out in any # of stories at EP. Given what I read in dan's responses I can see history repeating itself. |
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Post by Dan on Jun 2, 2016 10:07:31 GMT -5
So my response was: that shows that we are not compatible. I want a man that likes getting playful texts like that and it turns him on. We are not compatible. That was the essence of one of my comments this past week: she was vaguely suggesting I was in the wrong for wanting marital sex at the extremely outrageous rate of once or twice a week. I countered with something to the effect of: "maybe I'm not wrong and you're not wrong; maybe we just don't want the same things in the 'sex and intimacy' department." OK, that's a bit less edgy than yours. But somehow I feel I'm putting her on notice; laying the groundwork for whatever I do next. If I do decide to "try to reconcile one more time", these sort of things have to be taken in to account. Or if I decide "I'm ready to split", these sort of things are the reasons. baza : Tipping my hand? Maybe. For some reason, that is how I want to play my hand. Seems fairer. Seems "more me". I gotta stick to being me. @elle : I think this is my way of doing what you suggest. I'm positive that your wording "I'm planning to leave unless..." will not be taken as a gentle call to rise to the challenge, but rather as a demoralizing threat. If I wanted to end it now, I could use those words. |
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