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Post by isthisit on Aug 10, 2020 2:49:25 GMT -5
In my case, when my W did work part time, she said no sex the day before she worked, no sex the day she worked and no sex the day after she worked. That didn't leave many potential sex days. This almost meant with her working sex was off the table so maybe having her not working, retiring early, maybe there would be more sex. It was a long shot but that flopped too. Thanks for posting your opinions Sadkat and Isthisit. I wish I heard your posts 30+ years ago. There is history related to the 30+ years ago and some back injuries I had. I wasn't working during my recuperation and thought I was a burden to my W and that she might leave me for a man that was working (no evidence, just my fear) because my thinking at the time was "women want a man and the more he earns, the more she wants him." No income was = to not being wanted in my mind at the time. Oh Handy there are still many women (and maybe men š¤·š»āāļø) out there with one eye on a potential partnerās wallet. I just donāt happen to be one of them. I am sorry you had these concerns. It deserves recognising that while your wife appears to be pretty lazy today she stood by you as she should when you were compromised. As my children would say -shout out for Mrs Handy. š I have no interest at all in the occupational status or income of a potential partner. And I would not appreciate someoneās interest in me because of these factors either. But these stereotypes of who is suitable for whom based upon these things are alive and well. Recently a friend told me that she intended to set up a dinner party to āfind you a husbandā and would invite only eminent professionals to find āsomeone at your levelā. š Good God it is 2020. Firstly I am not sure at all that I want a man in my life let alone a husband, secondly what the f-does at your level mean? I just want someone I adore who adores me. As long as he has no ideas about sponging I donāt care what he does. Most sensible people donāt. |
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Post by isthisit on Aug 10, 2020 2:54:10 GMT -5
The real ticket is to marry a right person. If only we had! š¤¦āāļø Right on the money saarinista it always comes down to this. But, he was just so hot š¤Æ. |
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Post by saarinista on Aug 10, 2020 12:44:21 GMT -5
Though DryCreek et al divorce might NOT be so unfortunate if it were fairer, easier and not viewed as such a big deal by judgemental types, perhaps. How about this....Marriage to consist of a limited duration and then it expires. To continue the marriage it must be renewed periodically, just like a drivers license. Lets say 5 yrs and it expires. Any legal agreements entered into must be resolved also at that time. If the parties cannot resolve the issues in an amiable manor the courts would do it for them, but the marriage is ended. No divorce required. Just a certificate stating the marriage has been dissolved as a result of the it's expiration time limit. I like that 5 year option to renew model of marriage. Shall we start a movement to pass it into law? š |
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Post by Handy on Aug 10, 2020 14:10:39 GMT -5
Isthisit
I have no interest at all in the occupational status or income of a potential partner.That is quite different than I have thought about most of my life! BTW, I am not a slacker and I never wanted anyone else's money or thought it would be cool to cozy up to some richer woman. In fact I often felt I might not be good enough for someone with more money and a much better education than I had or could earn. So people take on "hang-ups" from several sources.
BTW, I did compete 1 semester of a masters degree program but men weren't getting hired locally in that field. Attractive younger women were. Problem #2 was the state and insurance company cut funding by about 50% after I entered the masters program. I have done way more work in fields (with a 10th grade education) that I practically trained myself in than any formal educational endeavors. Books - service manuals are wonderful for my type of education / training. Now it includes books and Youtube videos.
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Post by northstarmom on Aug 10, 2020 14:20:16 GMT -5
A big reason women of mature age donāt want to live together or remarry: they know women tend to outlive their partners so they donāt want to be their partnerās caregiver.
Many such women believe men of mature age are only looking for a nurse or a purse. āNurseā also means becoming completely responsible for a manās social life since many men have no friends except their romantic partner. Such men are clingy and draining.
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Post by saarinista on Aug 10, 2020 17:17:21 GMT -5
Well, many women are only looking for a purse. I don't understand that view of marriage at all. It's supposed to be both people, all in, every which way.
I don't know. Taking care of a spouse until death is still a noble calling, I think, IF they are truly a spouse. That's the whole thing, though. If they don't care about our sexual needs, how much do they care?
That said, if I end up divorced from my husband, I might still look after him. He's 72 and I'm 60. Right now, we're both in good shape, as I would expect. But I would never want him to be alone and sick. We don't have children and we are only children with no close family.
Even though it's not good marriage anymore, I still care for him. Perhaps because we are two only children, there is honor between us.
Of course, if I outlive him... Sigh. Anybody wanna be my caregiver in 30 years? š¬
Every marriage is different. And many marriages end up a lot different from how they started.
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Post by mirrororchid on Aug 11, 2020 7:04:26 GMT -5
... didn't the husband also give the best years of his life to her and his family?
Nah. Men are classier, less horny, and richer than they were in their early years. Our wives have often taught us how to dress our best, smooth our rough edges, and perhaps given us an edge in ambition and guile. I've heard not infrequently how men improve with age. If refusers want the best years of their husbands lives. They know what they should do. How often do we see scandalously young women with dirty old men? |
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Post by mirrororchid on Aug 11, 2020 8:31:59 GMT -5
I may tread into hot water here, but if you elect to take the role of running the household, itās a job - treat it like one. Do it well, and donāt complain that youāre the one doing it. The earning spouseās paycheck doesnāt appear magically, so give them some credit when the bill is paid for the plumber, handyman, landscaper, car repair, or that great restaurant - they didnāt turn the wrench or cook the meal, but their contribution still made it happen. Seems to me, the whole "equality" thing that expects women to work, should apply to household repairs. Why do we assume women should call a professional? As SAHD, I wouldn't dare call pros for everything. I'd take pride in fixing stuff myself. Already do, though fully employed. I don't do cars, but I've wired stuff, debugged computers, fixed toilets, painted, done bad drywall patching, etc. If I were a SAHD, soon as the kids are in school I'd be making some decent coin as a handyman. No stopping SAHM from doing something similar. Those household skills are EXPENSIVE! Better to earn it, than pay it. |
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Post by mirrororchid on Aug 11, 2020 9:16:08 GMT -5
My wife occasionally remembers how sweet she has it and expresses gratitude, but it's not commonplace and it's exceptionally nice when she remembers. Thing is, she's unaware of how sweet her deal is most of the time. Depression can convince even the luckiest people that their lives suck. If your life sucks, gratitude isn't a natural inclination. Gratitude from a clinically depressed refuser SAHD being hard to come by, the odd thought that occurs is... what does he do to make ME happy? If she'd think about it, there might be a hundred things but it doesn't even occur to her to ask the question earnestly and realize the truth. It may be that nothing he could do would work. The outcome of happiness is the requirement. Effort may be ignored / discounted. Clinical depression is being sad for no reason. This can kill a mood and absent drugs and therapy, sexlessness can occur in households where bacon scented candles and choreplay have no shot at breaking through to a sense of reason. Sometimes drugs and therapy don't work either. We've heard stories that make us suspect there's gold-digging and sloth in play. All the evil machinations you list. There is another number where mental illness is in play. In either case, "why chasing", even successfully to find a legit cause doesn't solve much and may do little towards implementing a solution. |
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Post by isthisit on Aug 11, 2020 10:35:24 GMT -5
My wife occasionally remembers how sweet she has it and expresses gratitude, but it's not commonplace and it's exceptionally nice when she remembers. Thing is, she's unaware of how sweet her deal is most of the time. Depression can convince even the luckiest people that their lives suck. If your life sucks, gratitude isn't a natural inclination. Gratitude from a clinically depressed refuser SAHD being hard to come by, the odd thought that occurs is... what does he do to make ME happy? If she'd think about it, there might be a hundred things but it doesn't even occur to her to ask the question earnestly and realize the truth. It may be that nothing he could do would work. The outcome of happiness is the requirement. Effort may be ignored / discounted. Clinical depression is being sad for no reason. This can kill a mood and absent drugs and therapy, sexlessness can occur in households where bacon scented candles and choreplay have no shot at breaking through to a sense of reason. Sometimes drugs and therapy don't work either. We've heard stories that make us suspect there's gold-digging and sloth in play. All the evil machinations you list. There is another number where mental illness is in play. In either case, "why chasing", even successfully to find a legit cause doesn't solve much and may do little towards implementing a solution. I agree with you, expressing gratitude is a big ask for a spouse with clinical or reactive depression. Also other mental health deficits such as narcissistic personality disorder, psychopathic traits (the non murderous end of the disorder) and unacknowledged social communication disorders such as autism and Aspergerās for examples. These diagnoses have crossed my mind in many peoples descriptions of spousal behaviour. Outside of medicine, letās not forget common or garden selfishness and self absorption. That is my experience. Once I was pregnant and therefore trapped, he became another person. However, as you and many others here identify the label is unimportant. How whatever it is makes you feel and what you are going to do about that is the only salient consideration for today. |
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Post by worksforme2 on Aug 11, 2020 18:39:25 GMT -5
worksforme2 , on the surface there are a lot of things that I like about that concept. It forces both sides to make a conscious effort to keep earning the relationship instead of mistreating it like an entitlement. It wouldnāt suck if it also came with some social reforms around alimony. I should hope that if the marriage is dissolved after the 1st 5yrs. and not renewed there would be very little in the way of alimony for the nonworking spouse. Child support probably, but little or no alimony. |
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Post by Handy on Aug 11, 2020 19:21:54 GMT -5
While a sort of agree with the 5 yr plan, the practical side includes kids and lots of debt for houses, cars and other household items is the norm. With the student loan situation as it is, maybe people need to pay off their student loans before they obtain a marriage license.
Like I have said before, romance needs a certain degree of finance to make it work well.
A bank manager told me his and most banks will loan people 3 to 5 times more money than the couple can comfortably pay back. I asked why. He said if his bank doesn't loan the money all of the other banks in the area will and then they would not have enough business to stay open. He also said the solution was to just charge higher interest rate to cover the people that default on loans and credit card obligations.
On another note, prostitution is generally illegal in the Muslim religion, and living together is highly frowned upon. One group gets around this (it was on the Internet so it could be true) was to get a marriage license for several days or weeks. When the time expired, everyone was free to go their own way.
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Post by baza on Aug 11, 2020 20:15:32 GMT -5
In my jurisdiction there already is a mechanism to resolve a dud marriage.
In my jurisdiction it is called "divorce" and is on the statutes under the "Australian Family Law" act, of 1976.
"If" one wanted to undertake a full and objective review of your marriage every 5 years, and "if" those deliberations indicated that the marriage was a dud, and "if" you saw parting ways as the next logical step, then in my jurisdiction there is already a mechanism for you to pursue that option.
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Post by shamwow on Aug 23, 2020 9:13:42 GMT -5
It is as well to keep in mind that no two (or more) divorces are the same. The financial sums and levels of complexity vary from case to case, and the law might vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Hence the suggestion often floated in here to "see a lawyer in your jurisdiction to establish how a divorce would shake out for you". That's what you need to know .... how YOUR unique situation would shake out in YOUR jurisdiction. That's the situation you are confronted with. What the law might be in Bumfuck Idaho is not particularly relevant, (unless you live in that marvelous city of which I have heard so much about) Excellent point on jurisdiction, baza. In my divorce, I owe roughly $2,100 in child support each month. At the time of my divorce, my youngest was 13 so that meant 5 years. In my state, we don't have spousal support, so when my son turns 18 and graduates from high school, I will have paid in about $125k and will be done. In ballofconfusion's jurisdiction, her divorce is still ongoing after 3 years. Her (hopefully soon) to be ex had a similar payment to mine but it was more like 1/3 child support and 2/3 spousal support. As her kids are over 18 now only the spousal support applies. In her area, though, that spousal support is generally paid for half the length of the marriage, or in the event of a marriage over 10 years in length, it could be paid indefinitely. I believe ironhamster is in a bear trap like this if I'm not mistaken. Of course, the deadbeat stopped paying anything well over a year ago so he gets the added privilege of paying 10 percent interest on the sizable amount in arrears. Likely he will bitch about not paying but will receive little sympathy from us. Boc's mom had to take a second mortgage on her home to keep her daughter afloat. So in my jurisdiction I'm done with my ex in two years. Boc's ex could be on the hook decades from now. All based on jurisdiction. Neither of us planned which jurisdiction we would be divorcing in. We just lived there and that's how it shook out. So, for those leaning on the "leave" option and waiting to talk to a lawyer, you might just want to chat with that advocate and factor that into your planning. On a side note, in just about every jurisdiction, it doesn't matter why the marriage failed. In Boc's case her ex is gay. From a legal perspective, that's a big yawn. Self rightious vindication doesn't get you anywhere in divorce court, just application of the law in your jurisdiction. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2020 13:00:24 GMT -5
This is on subject but deviates a bit from the divorce discussion. The home we just built is built with SM and the original article in mind. It's a small home (1400SF on the main level, 1300 unfinished basement) with two master bedrooms. Once your beds diverge, the divergence just increases. Our schedules have become a little different too, I go to bed earlier and get up earlier. So, I get it.
Is it still a marriage though? Am I content with no passion or physical touch of any kind? Yes, right now. Am I content with that situation forever? Time will tell. She frets a lot about my physical health and I'm in reasonably good shape for a 53 year old. Mild hypertension controlled and that's it. A little overweight but not obese and almost to "normal" range. I think you might be right that she worries about the caregiver piece.
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