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Post by lessingham on Jul 13, 2020 3:23:22 GMT -5
I do not see porn and real sex as an either/or deal. If my wife wanted sex, stuff porn. If I am so frustrated because she refuses, porn is a relief mechanism. Like many of the men replying, I cannot see why, when he is in quarenteen with a horny and willing wife that he chooses porn. But that is the crux of all our problems in that we cannot get into the head of the refuser.
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Post by blueguy on Jul 13, 2020 7:12:41 GMT -5
I do not see porn and real sex as an either/or deal. If my wife wanted sex, stuff porn. If I am so frustrated because she refuses, porn is a relief mechanism. Like many of the men replying, I cannot see why, when he is in quarenteen with a horny and willing wife that he chooses porn. But that is the crux of all our problems in that we cannot get into the head of the refuser. Totally agree! If my wife was horny and willing I wouldn’t even be here. I just don’t get how he would rather look at porn than have sex with a willing and desirable wife. I can guarantee that I would much rather choose tiredoftears over porn if I was in her situation. Heck from what I’ve read of her posts, she likes most of the same things I do and it’s more than just vanilla. I just don’t get her husband in this situation. Why porn over the wife?
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Post by Handy on Jul 13, 2020 10:02:15 GMT -5
Tiredoftears He watches soft vanilla type porn mostly. Shit that I find boring.That is part of your answer why your H is into porn. He does not find vanilla sex boring. Of course some vanilla sex is easier than the more active sex so maybe he doesn't have much of an imagination when it comes to sexual activities. He also said he wasn't good at what you want sexually. That is another sign he either doesn't have much of a sexually creative mind or he wants sex to be very easy fore him.
What could be easier? Sex with a woman that likes variety or sitting back and watching some easy to please woman on a video?
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Post by DryCreek on Jul 13, 2020 11:56:17 GMT -5
DryCreekNo... It doesn't motivate me to do anything different... I don't think? Can you give me an example of what you thought of in that question? Mostly along the lines of ... “Under X conditions, I’ll continue to plug the gaps in our relationship with other lovers, even though it’s not as convenient / regular / intimate as I’d like. But under Y conditions, I’m not willing to make that sacrifice and stretch and live a life that’s less fulfilling. Instead, I’d rather pull the plug and be free to search for a relationship that will include the intimacy I need.” If your spouse turns out to be asexual / gay / medically incapable and the door is open to outsource freely, then maybe that’s the more palatable option. But if they’re making a conscious choice of porn over you, why sacrifice yourself for their selfish interests?
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Post by tiredoftears on Jul 13, 2020 14:12:55 GMT -5
itmedrill down through these quoted excuses ^^^^^ and get to the heart of the matter I just want him to be honest with me, and himself. I know he's different, and that's fine, but lying about it is uncalled for. He would have saved us years of stress (and me a lot of pounds of weight) if he had just been honest from the get. Btw, I have lost about a hundred pounds this past year. Yay! lessinghamWell, with the assumption that he may have a porn addiction (which was an original suspicion, now I think it may be a combination of things) it was advised to refrain from all porn to restore "natural desire", which is what those type of people have to do. Some people can easily enjoy both, some can only do one or the other. HandyWhile I am into other things, and he is aware of that, the sex we had was usually me on top, him just lying there. Because it was easier for him. Then, it suddenly became too difficult to even do that. I wasn't asking him to be adventurous, because I knew it wasn't his thing. So that is not why. DryCreekUnder X conditions, I’ll continue to plug the gaps in our relationship with other lovers, even though it’s not as convenient / regular / intimate as I’d like. He said if I form a good bond with someone, they could move in. So... It's just the finding someone bit... This was a conversation we had in October last year. It is just very difficult right now, because of the pandemic, and I am just very leery of inviting strangers into my home, that could potentially have Covid-19. Condoms don't prevent that.
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Post by DryCreek on Jul 13, 2020 15:01:29 GMT -5
tiredoftears, I’m impressed (and a bit confused) by the lengths you’ll go to keep him in your life. But I suppose if you look at it on par with a poly arrangement where different partners bring different things into your life, then it probably makes more sense.
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Post by sadkat on Jul 13, 2020 16:01:49 GMT -5
I debated responding. Talking about it is difficult. It’s frustrating reading responses that ask whether or not your spouse would still want to have sex with you if porn were not In the picture. There are so many articles out there that clearly outline what sex (porn) addiction is; what it can do to a person. Unless you are intimately involved with an addict, you have no idea. I’m sorry tiredoftears. I know exactly how you’re feeling. I’ve been through it myself. The promises of stopping only to find out that he only got more skilled at hiding it. The constant hope of “maybe this time” he will quit. But he doesn’t. I’m not going to argue whether or not he will want to have sex with you should he stop porn. It’s a moot point. If he’s truly addicted, he will never stop. Even with intense counseling, like any other addict, the temptation will still have its strong pull- and he will go under as soon as life gets hard and he needs an outlet. That’s the reality I lived for 22 long years. It appears that you are now at the point where you are trying to find a solution that will make you happy. If continuing to live with him and finding a sexual partner outside of your relationship is a viable option for you, that’s great. I would caution you to take a good hard look at what you really need out of a relationship and to scrutinize what your spouse brings to the table that will make this arrangement a happy one for you. Because porn addiction will change him. It may be vanilla now. But, like any other addiction, the search for a bigger high will continue. As the years go by, you will see more self-centeredness, more aggression, a lessening in his ability to relate to you as a partner, and maybe a bit of self righteousness meanness. It’s not a pretty life. For me- I’m the type of person who needs intimacy, not just sexual release. I need someone to give me affection and love. Sex comes when I feel that connection with a man who can give me that. That’s why I finally left. After 26 years of marriage to a man that I loved deeply for the first 20 years. In the last 6 years, I began changing. I grew more resentful, very frustrated and angry. I became someone I didn’t recognize and didn’t much like. The constant strife, the betrayals, the disappointments, the powerless anger became too much. I finally snapped and realized I had to get away. I’m healing now. I have a lot of scars. I carry insecurities that will likely stay with me forever. One of those is my continued distaste and hatred of porn. I will not do this again-ever. Porn will not be in my life. I don’t care that it’s been around for ages; that couples can use it to enhance their sexual relationship; that it can be harmless. Those are opinions of people who have not experienced it the way I have. I will be rooting for you. I hope you’ll find the happiness you are seeking. We all deserve to be happy.
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Post by greatcoastal on Jul 13, 2020 17:02:54 GMT -5
Hate to sound like a broken record....Sounds like INTIMACY left his mind ( or was never really there) long ago too. Porn doesn't require that. Add on top of that 3 reasons why intimacy disappeared from many marriages. 1) Too much familiarity. 2) Too busy of a calendar. 3) Too many crises. All these things can lead to a whole too deep to get out of. Many of our SM spouses use these things as an excuse to avoid their own, real fears of intimacy. Just wanted to spring off of sadkat comments on intimacy.
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Post by Apocrypha on Jul 13, 2020 20:34:13 GMT -5
I need to know how to explain our relationship to any future relationships I may have. We're staying together, I just need an easy way to explain. If I could just say "he's a cuckold" or "he's a pornosexual" it's just a hell of a lot easier than explaining out whole weird past situation and leaving them to get to their own assumptions, and getting a bunch of questions I don't know how to answer. I've had some experience with various angles and arrangements and roles in non-monogamous situations - both in my marriage and out of it. It would help to know specifically what kind of porn is his thing. That may give you an insight into his fantasy life. If he is a cuckold (and simply watching the porn of that doesn't mean that's what HE is), there are various forms of that - but a key aspect of it is one or more of these: - he eroticizes your sexual appetite - frequently there are sexual domination/submission motifs - with the agent of his submission expressed through supplication. There are way more subs in BDSM than doms, and when two subs happen to be married to each other (not saying this is you, it's what I've seen out there), then inviting a third party to play the role of Dom to allows both parties to express themselves in the way they desire, in the presence of each other. - in no way does a cuckold or cuckquean simply "tolerate" his or her partner's external relationships - it's a key to the eroticization of their partner and to their own sexuality. - sometimes there are complex homo-erotic elements involved that are tied into the need to "surrender to the better man", and this might not be framed in a way that is atypical of being gay or bi. So, being made to do things that are associated with being gay, while not being gay - in effect - is a further expression of surrender - if that makes any sense. - sometimes cuckolds fetishists have a more elaborate and consuming lifestyle - which extends into other aspects of BDSM - and which may include some public humiliation Stag/WittolThis is a guy who either tolerates or enjoys his wife's enjoyment, but does not get off on the pyschological roleplayed humiliation. In effect, I see this kind of thing as being akin to exhibitionism, where one partner wants to show off his/her partner and where he gets excited by the prospect of others also being excited by his partner. Think of it like someone who loves hosting people at his beautiful vacation villa, or treating them to elaborate dinner parties. This would likely be experienced as a desire to share what he loves with others, witnessing their joy or exi Female-led relationshipsThis is a lifestyle situation that has elements of the others or could - in which he is passive - and in which the wife makes the decisions as she pleases including sexual, and he goes along for the ride. If he's suggesting that a guy could move in, it sounds like he might secretly be more of a lifestyle cuckold but might not be explaining clearly his eroticization of the situation. If that's the case, and you are open to it - then there is potential in that scenario to really turn up the aspects of it he enjoys, while possibly learning to enjoy them yourself. In such a case, it's then something you are still exploring together, and the marriage brings something to the table. "Making him" watch or "making him" go to a different room - interacting and "punishing" him in various ways while you enjoy abundant sexual expression with the other guy - there's an edge to this that goes beyond practicality and is its own thing that you are doing together. But he has to be honest about it and you have to be honest if you get anything out of it that you couldn't just get on your own without him. Note - outing yourselves in any of these to your neighbours is unlikely to be seen as benign as simply being a gay couple. If you have kids, it's possible that you would be seen as sexual deviants and that neighbours might be put off by it. Most people tend to think the person who "appears" to benefit from it the most - is the one who pitched it, and is advancing that agenda. So, choose carefully in telling your friends or family about whatever arrangement you have, and be clear with yourself and to them in your intention in doing so.
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Post by workingonit on Jul 14, 2020 13:14:52 GMT -5
Sexual anorexia. This is my h too.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2020 16:40:11 GMT -5
The horrible irony of being a human being. The touch of a real lover, skin on skin, a deep kiss..... Pornography isn't even in the same ballpark. Sorry tiredoftears.
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Post by mirrororchid on Jul 15, 2020 5:42:14 GMT -5
TiredofTears, .... Your pic...you look adorable...there's no logic to his ways. Glad you said it first.
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Post by tiredoftears on Jul 15, 2020 11:47:32 GMT -5
DryCreek I very much consider it a type of poly relationship, yes. sadkatI agree, he will never stop. It is just who he is, and that is fine, now that he has been honest about it. I forced him to have a long talk last night too. He did not like that at all, as he is not into emotions and talking about them, or any type of confrontation. But we agreed he is a "pornosexual", and we are going to have a type of "polyandry" relationship. Thank you. greatcoastalAgree. Intimacy was never a priority, or desire, of his. I believe it is because he is undiagnosed on the autism spectrum, and that is just who he is. He has never been able to form very intimate bonds. ApocryphaAll that information was very helpful, and I read it all to him during our conversation last night. Thank you for sharing and educating. @workingonit Sexual anorexia, and intimacy anorexia in general. @tooyoungtobeold Yeah, porn doesn't do it for me like that. I cannot endlessly scroll and be content and stuff. I find a video to suit my mood in less than ten minutes, and the actual act of masturbating takes me less than five, usually around one, honestly. For me, I prefer when porn is supplemental to a healthy sex life, not the only option. mirrororchidThank you.
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Post by Apocrypha on Jul 17, 2020 13:07:06 GMT -5
I agree, he will never stop. It is just who he is, and that is fine, now that he has been honest about it. I forced him to have a long talk last night too. He did not like that at all, as he is not into emotions and talking about them, or any type of confrontation. But we agreed he is a "pornosexual", and we are going to have a type of "polyandry" relationship. Fair enough, but what is his sexual involvement or investment with YOU? This may seem like a fine mince and I'm not sure if it can be apparent except in hindsight. In polyandry, you have two romantic partnerships. One of them is with him. Based on what you've presented, I'm not seeing that you have an amorous intimate relationship with him, or he with you. It is evident that he does have a sexual drive irrespective of you, and that in lieu of cheating on you, he is self-involved. Where or how do you and he intersect on that in terms of his eroticization of you? How are you polyandrous, as opposed to - say - living in a close separation such as I am, with my ex-wife? If you speak to polyandrous moresomes - they are all "into it". That is - there is some unique element of satisfaction derived from the arrangement. It goes beyond mere "tolerance" or "avoidance of the full pain of separation". There is something delicious that each of them get from their role in it. They might not all get the same benefits out of it - but they do get something out of that choice that they couldn't otherwise get with two. I think likely some eroticization of sexual abundance for the woman in the situation, voyeurism, eroticization of her appetite. But I'm not seeing any part of that here. It's what someone might do if they were just single (his part of it). For the benefit of the many people who consider this route (it's more than you might think), you might think "What difference does it make if it's simply avoidance of harm, and he is indifferent one way or another?" I'd respond by suggesting that you still are faced with the same problem in your primary relationship - if your goal is to have a a primary relationship eventually. If your arrangement does not "put gas in the tank" in the primary relationship (if it always costs a bit more than it offers TO THAT RELATIONSHIP), all you are doing is flapping your arms as you fall. You might slow your descent by adding drag to the fall in the form of an interesting complication to figure out, but it still ends in a crater. You eventually will end up coming home to the same problem in your primary relationship that you have now - and a profound feeling of failure and unfulfillment there. What is marriage bringing to the table, aside from the avoidance of the costs of ending the marriage?
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Post by shamwow on Jul 30, 2020 7:02:54 GMT -5
hopingforachangeHe watches soft vanilla type porn mostly. Shit that I find boring. HandyIt is not an ED problem. DryCreekNo... It doesn't motivate me to do anything different... I don't think? Can you give me an example of what you thought of in that question? cagedadventurerThank you for the compliment. jamesbondingWhile that may have been helpful advice in the last, I have actually killed any desire I had for him, and accept a platonic relationship. I am anxiously awaiting the pandemic to ease up, or a vaccine to be created or something so I don't fear a hookup with a rando. blueguyYeah, I prefer being with an actual person too... But to each their own, I guess? baza"He doesn't appear to have the skill set, the motivation, the orientation, or most importantly, the desire to be a suitable person for you to have a sexual relationship with." Thank you. You are right. He's not a bad guy, he's a really great guy. He just.... Needs to figure out a label to give me peace of mind. I know he's different, and I'm fine with that, as long as I'm not being lied to, and I have some way to title what he and I are, or what his sexual orientation is. Pretty sure he's a pornosexual, and that's fine, if he's just honest with me. I understand your desire for a nice, neat label to understand your husband. Back when I was married, I wanted one too. Is she asexual? Hell, is she gay? If I only had such a label, it wouldn't be "my fault". It would be on her and I could achieve some level of peace. I never received such an answer, but ballofconfusion did. Her ex is an out-of-the closet homosexual. I can tell you from her experience, though, knowing the "label" for certain does not make it easier. Quite the opposite. The need to know and presumed peace that comes with it is simply replaced by a feeling of "how the hell could I have not seen this" and "I wasted so many years with that man." Rather than focusing on the "why" of a label, try it accept the only label you truly know for certain: "I am in a sexless marriage". The why simply doesn't matter. Make your peace with THAT label and then choose from among your three options: Stay, cheat, or leave.
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