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Post by DryCreek on Jun 4, 2020 1:33:37 GMT -5
timeforliving2, thanks for the follow-up. I suppose it’s not surprising that she isn’t swinging from the chandelier, but good that it is sincere and enough to keep you connected. It’s true that we can’t have everything in life; sometimes we need to find satisfaction with “good enough” in one area.
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Post by csl on Jun 4, 2020 17:48:32 GMT -5
@time4living2: So glad to read your story, and how things have/are changing. I can get that your wife isn't a nympho, and I guess my response is "So what? In our wildest dreams, do we want a nympho or a lover?" Anyway, not being familiar with your past and situation, I would ask if your wife is open to learning more, now that she has had some eye-opening, or do you get this impression that she is at a "thus far and no more" impasse? If she is willing to read and learn, there are a couple of great resources for christian wives that are very good. Bonny's Oysterbed7 takes a nearly clinical approach, Forgiven Wife is very introspective, Hot, Holy & Humorous is pretty much straight-forward, next-door-neighbor-ish. Those three women have combined with a fourth writer to create a podcast entitled Sex Chat For Christian Wives. There are many other resources that I could list, but you know your wife best and know the level of engagement she brings. |
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Post by hiker64 on Jun 6, 2020 1:45:15 GMT -5
~Hiker64 - Welcome. I see many similarities in our stories. I don't think the jealousy plan will really get you the results you desire. Perhaps a better strategy, if you want to call it that, would be to concentrate on becoming the best "You" you can be. Get into great shape, make an effort to be outgoing (even flirty) and interesting with the women you encounter in daily life. You may then notice that the way you carry yourself will attract attention from the opposite sex, whether your wife is there or not. Some partners do respond to that sort of social proof. That said, it sounds like the only way you will see a real breakthrough is if your wife is willing to seek individual, professional help for herself AND she is actually still interested in an intimate relationship with you. I am starting to rethink things after reading all of the comments. I think I should have titled the thread differently. I really want to (as bozodeclowne said) make myself more interesting to other women that I meet. That will be good for me and possibly be good for my marriage as well. I am new here and want to read the other threads, particularly the ones on deciding whether to stay or leave. There are so many insightful comments. I realize there are very few stories of a complete change in a sexless marriage. But every situation is unique. What is needed for me to stay is for me to feel that my wife loves me. My wife does a lot of things for me. But I cannot break away from the idea that for man to feel loved by a woman, she needs to share her body with him, which my wife had not done for a long time. I recently asked my wife to share her body with me and she did, although not intercourse. It was for my pleasure only. She felt no need to be intimate. But I was surprised that she was willing to do something as it had been a long time. I think she recognized my needs. It was something and it did make me feel good. The question for me is to decide if this is something to build upon and whether it will be enough. |
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Post by baza on Jun 6, 2020 3:37:31 GMT -5
For some examples of how members choose staying or leaving, I suggest this. Pick a member say shamwow and go to their profile page. There you will see the number of threads they have started. Pick the oldest and read it (and the attached comments) Then move on to the next oldest thread, repeat. It is pretty laborious (this is not a particularly user friendly site) but very worthwhile. Do that with a few members and you'll get a pretty good picture. Also, bozodeclowne 's piece above about sorting out your own shit is very sound. In fact, it is a pretty good policy for anyone to adopt, irrespective of marital/relationship status. |
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Post by lwoetin on Jun 7, 2020 2:33:53 GMT -5
Your gas station incident is pretty funny. I would be happy to meet women that way! I would crack up if my wife would be upset at that. I am sort of making my wife jealous, but it is just slightly. I'm staying with her and not going anywhere, so there is no point in pissing her off. But to keep my sanity, I will try to meet and make friends with more women, for my sake. As long as my wife knows that I'm not a total loser and have some females who enjoy my company, she'll hopefully feel some urge to keep me happy. Our marriage has become sexless when she reached menopause, I guess it is a good milestone for her. But she has been better at intimacy lately. We've been together for 26 years, and we love each other, really. I really cannot justify leaving. So giving an ultimatum is much too risky for the marriage. If the wife doesn't want much attention, why not give more to friends. The key to being happy is to not think about the bad part of life and being thankful for the good things in life. I'm hoping this ILIASM deal will work itself out in the future. Good luck with getting closer, emotionally and physically, to your wife. lwoetin ... Perhaps your marriage relationship is in overall better shape than I thought (other than the SM part). But two comments you made jump out at me and they raise the issue of how important good communication is in a relationship: (1) "So giving an ultimatum is much too risky for the marriage.", and (2) "I'm hoping this ILIASM deal will work itself out in the future."
In response to those two comments you made, I would say...KEEP discussing the issue... and how it affects BOTH of you (individually)... AND your marriage relationship. Treat your marriage relationship as a separate "thing". You (or your spouse / partner) can't expect to get much out of it if you don't put much into it. You cannot merely "hope" that things will get better. Also, don't use the word "ultimatum" in talking about it. Your marriage relationship is a separate thing, and it has to work for BOTH people. If it's not working in a significant way for ANY ONE of the people, then it might be a DEALBREAKER... IF the problem does not get resolved IN THE LONG RUN. So it's not an ultimatum... it's just a reality of how a 2-person relationship works... or doesn't work.
Since this issue has been going on for YEARS, it needs to be discussed / worked on until it is resolved to BOTH of your satisfaction. If you can't work this out on your own, then a third party (counselor) WILL be needed. If that cannot work, THEN it's certainly REASONABLE to "take a break" for a while (and the action of "taking a break" will be about as big of a sign as you can get that this is a *serious* issue). SOME PEOPLE will not change UNLESS they get a big enough kick in the butt / incentive to change. And don't worry about "what she may think"... because: (1) you certainly have a right to stand up for your needs in a 2-person relationship (otherwise the other person controls everything and you're effectively "a push over"), and (2) If she does in fact change, she will know that she was in the wrong and/or NEEDED to change... and then the relationship WILL be better and she will be amazed by how you are treating her EVEN BETTER. my marriage is doing fine but we have that unresolved issue about sex in marriage. We are trying to find a median that we both can live with. I don't want to hurt her. And I don't want our marriage to end. But I do want sex back in our marriage. I think I don't need sex but I need intimacy. We've managed to make it through all these years that I am hopeful we will find a happy median somewhere. It's like in Chemistry, we have a double bond. Not just a single bond holding us together. |
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Post by lwoetin on Jun 7, 2020 2:47:17 GMT -5
~Hiker64 - Welcome. I see many similarities in our stories. I don't think the jealousy plan will really get you the results you desire. Perhaps a better strategy, if you want to call it that, would be to concentrate on becoming the best "You" you can be. Get into great shape, make an effort to be outgoing (even flirty) and interesting with the women you encounter in daily life. You may then notice that the way you carry yourself will attract attention from the opposite sex, whether your wife is there or not. Some partners do respond to that sort of social proof. That said, it sounds like the only way you will see a real breakthrough is if your wife is willing to seek individual, professional help for herself AND she is actually still interested in an intimate relationship with you. I am starting to rethink things after reading all of the comments. I think I should have titled the thread differently. I really want to (as bozodeclowne said) make myself more interesting to other women that I meet. That will be good for me and possibly be good for my marriage as well. I am new here and want to read the other threads, particularly the ones on deciding whether to stay or leave. There are so many insightful comments. I realize there are very few stories of a complete change in a sexless marriage. But every situation is unique. What is needed for me to stay is for me to feel that my wife loves me. My wife does a lot of things for me. But I cannot break away from the idea that for man to feel loved by a woman, she needs to share her body with him, which my wife had not done for a long time. I recently asked my wife to share her body with me and she did, although not intercourse. It was for my pleasure only. She felt no need to be intimate. But I was surprised that she was willing to do something as it had been a long time. I think she recognized my needs. It was something and it did make me feel good. The question for me is to decide if this is something to build upon and whether it will be enough. I actually share your point of view. She needs to share herself, mind and body, to show love. And we each have differing levels as to what enough is. If she doesn't share much body then she better be rich in other areas. In the meantime, I fill my time with activities because thinking about SM is not doing me much good. |
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Post by mirrororchid on Jun 10, 2020 6:30:19 GMT -5
~Hiker64 - Welcome. I see many similarities in our stories. I don't think the jealousy plan will really get you the results you desire. Perhaps a better strategy, if you want to call it that, would be to concentrate on becoming the best "You" you can be. Get into great shape, make an effort to be outgoing (even flirty) and interesting with the women you encounter in daily life. You may then notice that the way you carry yourself will attract attention from the opposite sex, whether your wife is there or not. Some partners do respond to that sort of social proof. That said, it sounds like the only way you will see a real breakthrough is if your wife is willing to seek individual, professional help for herself AND she is actually still interested in an intimate relationship with you. I am starting to rethink things after reading all of the comments. I think I should have titled the thread differently. I really want to (as bozodeclowne said) make myself more interesting to other women that I meet. That will be good for me and possibly be good for my marriage as well. I am new here and want to read the other threads, particularly the ones on deciding whether to stay or leave. There are so many insightful comments. I realize there are very few stories of a complete change in a sexless marriage. But every situation is unique. What is needed for me to stay is for me to feel that my wife loves me. My wife does a lot of things for me. But I cannot break away from the idea that for man to feel loved by a woman, she needs to share her body with him, which my wife had not done for a long time. I recently asked my wife to share her body with me and she did, although not intercourse. It was for my pleasure only. She felt no need to be intimate. But I was surprised that she was willing to do something as it had been a long time. I think she recognized my needs. It was something and it did make me feel good. The question for me is to decide if this is something to build upon and whether it will be enough. I heard about this site when I was collaborating a little with Love Not Anger: rentafriend.com/Love Not Anger (LNA) was a successor to a benign Incel movement long ago that mutated into a toxic stew of machismo and misogyny. Its originator rebooted her attempt to provide an alternative to the red pill movement. I offered to share the marcel (married, involuntarily celibate) perspective, but was largely rebuffed. Its founder wanted to link up lonely people with friends. The sex was an afterthought for her. She hinted that I should quit my bitchin'. She's not wrong that lonely people have it worse off than marcels, but we can't walk and chew gum at the same time? *shrug* While I was helping, RentAfriend seemed like a good idea to get help for hopeless weenies that didn't know how to dress and groom themselves, small talk with women, or know what they may need to do to become attractive. Your agenda of self-improvement and meeting platonically with women and getting what you need from the relationship strikes me as suitable for a situation where paying for a friend might make sense. You want to be flirty and attractive, but make it clear it can go nowhere. The payment situation inserts literal professionalism into the meeting. This mercenary approach may be the most efficient. For my part, since you asked about other ILIASM experiences with jealousy... I gave my wife "The Talk" in February 2017 explaining our 20th wedding anniversary was not going to be a blowout because we were operating on fumes. Moreover, things needed to change. Full stop. I had a serious problem with sexlessness and I didn't much care how it got solved, but it would be. I started (platonically, with intent for more) dating off and on (mostly off) using OKcupid, and during an "off" spell, she asked if I was dating again. I told her I planned to resume in two months. The question was a signal of jealousy to me. She started seeing a therapist for an unrelated reason and she told the therapist about my dating (I was invited for the first session). The therapist acted stunned, but within two week s, my wife was initiating (impartial third party backing me up, likely critical here). After a six month long, terrific "reset", we're now in a one month dry spell after a serious injury for her and a COVID exposure scare. COVID is also making dating exceptionally challenging, so a lack of outlet is allowing it to last this long. So did jealousy work? Yeah, but it was the real deal. Not games. And as others have said, be comfortable with the idea that you've just started the timer on a nuke. |
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Post by hiker64 on Jun 12, 2020 2:10:21 GMT -5
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Post by hiker64 on Jun 12, 2020 2:29:22 GMT -5
I heard about this site when I was collaborating a little with Love Not Anger: rentafriend.com/Love Not Anger (LNA) was a successor to a benign Incel movement long ago that mutated into a toxic stew of machismo and misogyny. Its originator rebooted her attempt to provide an alternative to the red pill movement. I offered to share the marcel (married, involuntarily celibate) perspective, but was largely rebuffed. Its founder wanted to link up lonely people with friends. The sex was an afterthought for her. She hinted that I should quit my bitchin'. She's not wrong that lonely people have it worse off than marcels, but we can't walk and chew gum at the same time? *shrug* While I was helping, RentAfriend seemed like a good idea to get help for hopeless weenies that didn't know how to dress and groom themselves, small talk with women, or know what they may need to do to become attractive. Your agenda of self-improvement and meeting platonically with women and getting what you need from the relationship strikes me as suitable for a situation where paying for a friend might make sense. You want to be flirty and attractive, but make it clear it can go nowhere. The payment situation inserts literal professionalism into the meeting. This mercenary approach may be the most efficient. For my part, since you asked about other ILIASM experiences with jealousy... I gave my wife "The Talk" in February 2017 explaining our 20th wedding anniversary was not going to be a blowout because we were operating on fumes. Moreover, things needed to change. Full stop. I had a serious problem with sexlessness and I didn't much care how it got solved, but it would be. I started (platonically, with intent for more) dating off and on (mostly off) using OKcupid, and during an "off" spell, she asked if I was dating again. I told her I planned to resume in two months. The question was a signal of jealousy to me. She started seeing a therapist for an unrelated reason and she told the therapist about my dating (I was invited for the first session). The therapist acted stunned, but within two week s, my wife was initiating (impartial third party backing me up, likely critical here). After a six month long, terrific "reset", we're now in a one month dry spell after a serious injury for her and a COVID exposure scare. COVID is also making dating exceptionally challenging, so a lack of outlet is allowing it to last this long. So did jealousy work? Yeah, but it was the real deal. Not games. And as others have said, be comfortable with the idea that you've just started the timer on a nuke. Thanks for sharing your experience. These are the kind of things I am interested in. I do understand the metaphor of "starting the timer on a nuke" and that is okay because sometimes that is the only way to let your spouse know how serious you are. For me, making friends with a woman while you are married is difficult. Taking classes is the best way I have found and I plan on doing that again. If you don't make friends, at least you are learning something you enjoy. The problem I see is that women are suspicious of married men (sometimes with good reason) and that makes it more challenging. It is funny that you mention rentafriend. I was told that someone that used to work in my office "rents herself out" on that site. I had never heard of it before that. I don't think I could ever get used to the idea of paying someone to be your friend. Something about that just doesn't seem right. I would much rather try something else. For someone in a sexless marriage, paying for a lap dance at a strip club seems like a better use of your money. That thought never crossed my mind when my wife and I were intimate. But a lack of intimacy makes you think differently. |
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I have read multiple threads. I was very impressed with all the different solutions everyone has found. Intellectual group and the camaraderie is nice