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Post by ironhamster on Dec 5, 2021 7:49:08 GMT -5
The vaccines are less impressive all the time. States with high vaccine rates seem to have as much trouble as those with low vaccine rates. This O, Omicron, variant, could be a good game changer. It's reportedly highly contagious and as if yet no deaths have been linked to it. It's more likely to give us herd immunity than any current vaccine. Beyond that, therapeutics are our only hope. Yet every week I see so many unvaccinated people die and so few vaccinated ones go to the mortuary. Week in, week out. That’s not data which is easy to misrepresent in an unregulated public domain. That’s body bags. We are in agreement that the vaccines do help survival rates, but previous infection creates a natural immunity shown to be over ten time as effective against new infection. The vaccine doesn't prevent anyone from contracting the virus or from spreading it. It's not the solution. |
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Post by northstarmom on Dec 5, 2021 10:09:02 GMT -5
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Post by isthisit on Dec 5, 2021 13:48:36 GMT -5
Yet every week I see so many unvaccinated people die and so few vaccinated ones go to the mortuary. Week in, week out. That’s not data which is easy to misrepresent in an unregulated public domain. That’s body bags. We are in agreement that the vaccines do help survival rates, but previous infection creates a natural immunity shown to be over ten time as effective against new infection. The vaccine doesn't prevent anyone from contracting the virus or from spreading it. It's not the solution. There is very little data about Omicron so few, if any, conclusions can be drawn yet. Just to keep things nice and complicated the minimal data in existence is drawn from only one part of the world. This is relevant as every population has unique characteristics which makes direct comparisons very tenuous. In my view one of the problems in the muddle of misinformation and pernicious and deliberate misrepresentation of “data” are attempts to simplify a highly complex situation. It is really unhelpful to use absolutes such as vaccination or non vaccination does/does not do [insert outcome]. The devil is in the detail and a more accurate interpretation of the data are that there is an increased or decreased likelihood of an outcome in a particular population. Shame it’s not clear cut, but that’s medicine. This detail is the area where those determined to prove/disprove to support their view/agenda/whatever exploit the analysis for their own ends. You are quite right ironhamster the vaccine (any of them because of course they are not one thing but variations on a theme) does not prevent infection or transmission of any variant of CV. But they all dramatically reduce the likelihood of becoming unwell/seriously ill and also of transmitting it to others. The vaccine does not have to prevent infection to be useful to both the individual and also to society in general. For me there is far too much focus on mortality. That a person does not die does not mean that they get off scot free. C19 can be a walk in the park, a devastating illness which can cause a great deal of suffering, and everything in between. Many people I have seen critically ill with C19 have been shocked by the severity of their experience. I can see why, as here at least there is a paucity of attention of just how dreadful it can be. Maybe other parts of the world communicate this better than we do. Recently the EU have made some noises to indicate that they will be moving to mandatory vaccination to participate in any form of society. I feel very strongly this is to be avoided at all costs. It’s ethically and morally questionable and almost certainly will provoke militancy in people who otherwise would probably be pretty compliant. Everyone who is competent has the right to choose with this, and that is a precious thing. I think I am correct I saying that everyone on this forum are from nations in the developed world, and not from a nation where the state controls everything. Brussels needs to be careful they don’t look more like Beijing. In the U.K. there are no moves towards this line of thinking. I cannot stand BoJo, I think he is a total twat but he has the good sense to stay well away from this. Fortunately we have no issues here with the politicisation of the pandemic, we see more vaccine hesitancy rather than ardent paranoia about it. The majority of people I see in a highly sticky situation with C19 were simply too busy or lazy to go along for their jab. In the summer I lost a man aged 26 years, fit as a butcher’s dog, gym bunny, a six pack to die for, marathon runner. Had time to go to the match, out drinking with his mates and chasing girls. Had every intention of going along…. tomorrow. C19 went through every organ of his body like a dose of salts. I have fought for few like I fought for this man. I couldn’t stand the thought that he would lose his life through his own laziness. Telling his mum will stay with me for a long time. On the upside, there are new treatments out in the last few weeks which look promising, and more to come for less acute patients, so hopefully he will be my last experience like this with C19. |
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Post by ironhamster on Dec 6, 2021 0:02:47 GMT -5
At this point, isthisit, those new therapeutics look promising. Monoclonal antibodies are promising. Ivermectin has a promising track record although it appears less so against the delta strain. Out of concern for my mother's stress level, I got the jab this fall. While I view the action as a waste of time, I suppose your fit friend felt the same. A man I wrestled with a year ago and handily beat me in the most lopsided match I have ever experienced got Covid and spent three months recovering. Unknown to me, although it was like trying to wrestle a bronze statue, he did have heart and circulation issues under that mass of muscle. |
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Post by ironhamster on Dec 6, 2021 19:44:52 GMT -5
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Post by mirrororchid on Dec 6, 2021 19:56:34 GMT -5
The vaccines are less impressive all the time. States with high vaccine rates seem to have as much trouble as those with low vaccine rates. This O, Omicron, variant, could be a good game changer. It's reportedly highly contagious and as if yet no deaths have been linked to it. It's more likely to give us herd immunity than any current vaccine. Beyond that, therapeutics are our only hope. What I've heard thus far is that Omicron has 30 mutations where previous variants of concern have had 8-10. This is what has vaccine advocates soiling their shorts. Good gravy! Omicron is so different, better get the exact same vaccine to do the most you can with the little resemblance that does exist! The next thing we hear is that omicron appears to be rather contagious, but pretty minor in impact. I've suggested this before. The vaccine targets the spike. The protein that allows it to attach to the cell. This protein is so important to effective infection that messing with it to evade the vaccine, may well diminish it's capacity to do its job. For every mutation that helps it avoid antibodies raised by the vaccine, it may lose its ability to infect. Imagine a germ shaped like a human hand is introduced to the body. The immune system makes rigid gloves that sheathe the hands and they cannot grab on to cells. The hand-germs add a sixth finger at random (because mutations are not deliberate or planned) and the sixth finger makes the glove fail to sheathe as well, but the random sixth finger gets in the way of the other five most of the time and it cannot grab cells as effectively. Some hand germs move the fingers farther away from each other into more of a star configuration. Foils the glove, sure. But then only three fingers at a time can reach the cells. It loses its grip fairly often. Maybe omicron has mutated to the point of looking more like an ear. So different from the hand, that it foils the antibodies, but it also does a terrible job grabbing cells. The vaccine was developed against the spike protein, perhaps with this strategy in mind and it has worked so well the pharma companies are really upset that it's working great after a full year and a half. Omicron can get past it, but hardly a soul wants a vaccine for a COVID infection described as a mild flu. Uncle Sam is not paying billions for a flu vaccine. Yet the drumbeat of more more more seems to have diminished very little. |
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Post by mirrororchid on Dec 7, 2021 5:42:01 GMT -5
www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/95726Pierre Kory, MD, one of the most vocal proponents of ivermectin, got COVID-19 in August, despite taking the anti-parasitic medication on a weekly basis to ostensibly prevent the disease, the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reported.
Kory has since doubled down on the drug, urging that the prophylactic dose be increased to twice per week, according to the Journal Sentinel.So twice a week will do the job, Dr. Kory? Why twice? Why are you right this time? Would you bet your life on it? Oh, right. You can't. You're immune now., Is he halving the dose, or doubling it?
There is most definitely a side effect from doubling the prescriptions of ivermectin: Kory's advocacy is used by America's Front Line Doctors americasfrontlinedoctors.org/2/videos/dr-pierre-kory-us-senate-hearing-ivermectin-is-100-cure-for-covid-19/The confirmed, inescapable side effect of doubling the dose? theintercept.com/2021/09/28/covid-telehealth-hydroxychloroquine-ivermectin-hacked/David Hannum told us a sucker was born every minute. One wonders how often one of them dies.
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Post by Handy on Dec 7, 2021 23:37:37 GMT -5
Unvaccinated people have a 13x higher case rate than vaccinated people. I do not know why people think hydroxychloroquine or ivermectin is going to save them. Unless the state of Texas in not telling the truth? The chart is simple. Take a look at it. www.dshs.texas.gov/immunize/covid19/data/vaccination-status/ |
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Post by mirrororchid on Dec 8, 2021 6:05:23 GMT -5
The link you sent said:
Unvaccinated people were 13 times more likely to become infected with COVID-19 than fully vaccinated people.
Unvaccinated people were 20 times more likely to experience COVID-19-associated death than fully vaccinated people.
Not 13%, 1300%. Two orders of magnitude worse. Death 2000% higher.
HCQ does cure COVID. It also keeps tigers away. You don't see any tigers, do you? The more plausible the cause-effect relationship, the more it can be misattributed to a correlation. For example, people who read medical web sites that recommend ivermectin and have a doctor who writes prescriptions of any kind may be more likely to be aware of the benefits of not smoking, maintaining a healthier weight and capable of affording and assembling a nutritious diet. Therefore, ivermectin consumers could be in lower risk groups and enjoy substantially better odds of survival. Ah, control groups. The true panacea the world needs.
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Post by worksforme2 on Dec 11, 2021 10:17:15 GMT -5
The 1st confirmed case of the omicron mutation hs been reported in NC. A student traveled outside NC for Thankgiving and presummably contracted the virus, then returning to NC and falling ill. So far he is the only confirmed case.
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Post by Handy on Dec 17, 2021 20:03:14 GMT -5
God's 1D10T solution?
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Post by worksforme2 on Dec 18, 2021 12:13:51 GMT -5
My fellow parishners seem to be getting a bit careless. I have had a hard time sanitizing the sanctuary between services the last 2 Sundays, because Christmas related events wanted the area for other things. And fewer people are masking and no one is social distancing at all. I hope this isn't a precurser to Covid19 paying us a visit.
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Post by mirrororchid on Dec 27, 2021 5:49:48 GMT -5
My unvacc'd friend in a high risk group lost her sense of smell after catching a cold from her daughter that swept through her daughter's school.
Within a week, her sense of smell was returning.
Omicron may be the end of this thing.
Remember those insane "COVID Parties" at the start of the pandemic?
It might be time to throw those now.
Catch wimpy little Omicron.
Yes, you might be very unlucky, but if you aren't gett8ing vacc'd, catching one that's causing 70% less hospitalization may be your best shot before something worse comes along.
Stop masking, get outside as soon as you are able and spread this one to everyone you can.
This reckless reprehensible PSA brought to you my a dude with no medical authority but a decent sense of the politically possible.
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Post by jerri on Dec 27, 2021 7:26:00 GMT -5
www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/95726Pierre Kory, MD, one of the most vocal proponents of ivermectin, got COVID-19 in August, despite taking the anti-parasitic medication on a weekly basis to ostensibly prevent the disease, the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reported.
Kory has since doubled down on the drug, urging that the prophylactic dose be increased to twice per week, according to the Journal Sentinel.So twice a week will do the job, Dr. Kory? Why twice? Why are you right this time? Would you bet your life on it? Oh, right. You can't. You're immune now., Is he halving the dose, or doubling it?
There is most definitely a side effect from doubling the prescriptions of ivermectin: Kory's advocacy is used by America's Front Line Doctors americasfrontlinedoctors.org/2/videos/dr-pierre-kory-us-senate-hearing-ivermectin-is-100-cure-for-covid-19/The confirmed, inescapable side effect of doubling the dose? theintercept.com/2021/09/28/covid-telehealth-hydroxychloroquine-ivermectin-hacked/David Hannum told us a sucker was born every minute. One wonders how often one of them dies. All of the flcc doctors shared their info and came up with a really good protocol. My husband was taking a similar protocol for uncontrolled asthma and could hardly walk. Months later he was exercising again. He got covid and we didn't know he had it until I got sick with what I thought was allergies...Only reason I suspected covid was because he lost his senses temporarily. He tested positive for two months. That protocol mostly came from Korea, NY and then some Indian doctors had good success with it. Those doctors really leared a lot paying attention to the front line doctors who were successful. Dr. Mobean is their cheer leader. They are fascinatingg to me |
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Post by mirrororchid on Dec 28, 2021 7:05:28 GMT -5
All of the flccc doctors shared their info and came up with a really good protocol. My husband was taking a similar protocol for uncontrolled asthma and could hardly walk. Months later he was exercising again. He got covid and we didn't know he had it until I got sick with what I thought was allergies...Only reason I suspected covid was because he lost his senses temporarily. He tested positive for two months. That protocol mostly came from Korea, NY and then some Indian doctors had good success with it. Those doctors really learned a lot paying attention to the front line doctors who were successful. Dr. Mobean is their cheer leader. They are fascinating to me Thing is, correlation is not causation. Your husband was, in a way, a control group. He was asthmatic and could barely walk. You introduced a variable. (Maybe some variables before you found one that worked.) and that variable changed his condition. We cannot know how he would have done without these medicines, though intuitively, someone not on such medicines would struggle to breathe already, but that doesn't negate the observation that being on medicine both before and after a condition doesn't tell us how much a drug helped. We've nothing to compare it to. As some people are asymptomatic, losing the sense of smell for a while could be seen as a moderate response, despite the medicines he's on. Much of the uproar about these cheap drugs is "why not give them when you've nothing to lose!" introduces the problem of having no control for the intervention. If it's seen that you should give everything to everybody, it's nigh impossible to know what works, and what's harmful. What we have here is anecdotal evidence which is a good way to identify leads towards medical treatments and then conduct experiments to find whether the anecdotal evidence is indicative of empirical efficacy. It also removes the placebo effect, a potent problem in the alternative medicine world. For every cheap drug, you need someone taking as sugar pill to see if there's a statistical difference in symptom improvement. If not, you're back to anecdote. That's how you get people killing rhinoceroses because they believe their powdered horns work better than a tiny dose of Viagra. No one has given them a similar, non-endangered-species-based powder pill and asked them how their lovemaking went. |
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