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Post by jim44444 on May 30, 2016 17:04:53 GMT -5
I wonder as well. Do they really think that we will give up that up? The thing is they do not see an SM as giving anything up. The low libido partner is getting all the sex they desire. They are not in an SM, we are. The high libido partner is the one giving something up. What we give up is our sexual rights by handing them over to our partner in the hopes that they will be good stewards of our needs. This continues until we are 100% certain that we have been cheated and that they will never make restitution. Our partners will plan for the future because they feel that the current pardigm is working. That is what makes the divorces so difficult. Our plans are diametrically opposed to theirs, they wish to maintain the status quo, we wish to capsize the boat. FWIW, this year I have made no plans for vacations or romantic getaways. First tme in over 40 years. And since I have not made them none have been made. The only plans I have made are for my cycling trips without the W. |
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compugeek
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Post by compugeek on May 30, 2016 18:38:57 GMT -5
cagedadventurer , it certainly sounds like she goes out of her way to avoid intimate opportunities. greatcoastal , your wife totally missed the point I read in your comment... That she's capable of waking in time to get ready, have breakfast, etc. - so she's equally capable of being up early enough to add intimacy to the list, if she considered intimacy important. Regardless of when she gets up, it's a question of what she considers important and how she spends the time. DC I've tried to bring that point up several times as an example; she makes a point to spend an hour in the bath for "me" time, takes her about an hour and a half to do her face, makeup, hair, etc..... Yet *zero* interest or understanding why making time for "us" is important, necessary or wanted. Ooof. |
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Post by baza on May 30, 2016 21:26:53 GMT -5
I see that here - and elsewhere - you make a statement concerning "packing up & moving out" Brother chris.
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Do you have the legal advice / doable exit strategy / shored up support network etc in place ?
Very easy to discharge the Smith & Wesson straight in to your Nike's if you are not prepared.
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Post by lwoetin on May 31, 2016 0:01:39 GMT -5
It occurs to me that just as someone with a condition, in this case I will refer to it as a an emotional condition, does not even realize that their actions are anything less than normal, therefore, they just cannot see the pain inflicted or the rejection (in our faces or indirect). At the same time, because they can change when confronted it is not easy to excuse the selfishness. Either way, let the chips fall here. I am more convicted then even last week to maintain my packing this week and MOVING! Sad yet exciting to finally get off the 50 yard line to effect change. I always come up with a reason to wait for another day to leave. Always a birthday, a holiday, 15 minutes of sex, something that has kept me here. But yet I am collapsing inside, like a suspended bridge with a cable strand snapping upon every act of avoidance and refusal, I think I have 1-2 strands left after all these years. Hope cannot last forever so it is a matter of time when each individual snaps and finally decides to move forward. However it seems like you are already aware that they can change when confronted. I don't see this as selfishness though. And they (and you) do change when presented with pain and anguish from losing a loved one(s). If the change is appreciable or hopeful, you may actually stay. |
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Post by greatcoastal on May 31, 2016 8:21:57 GMT -5
Now you need a vacation, from your vacation!
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2016 16:07:18 GMT -5
Of course you are worth that. I eventually came to the mindset that HOPE is a waste of time. I even wrote about it on EP. Something to the effect of anything I ever accomplished in my life - my degree, losing weight, getting pregnant (you can't imagine how hard that task was with a refuser! And I accomplished it twice), my career, etc. None of it happened because I hoped it would, it happened because I actively went out after what I wanted to accomplish. Something to that effect I wrote about. I can relate to the lack of intimacy on vacation. My ex would spend the entire night out in a casino or if we were in a hotel with no casino he'd sit at the desk on his laptop until I fell asleep. He totally waited me out. As far as those couples in their 50's and 60's the ones that look happy I'm willing to bet that it's a second marriage. Just my jaded view of marriage. Find your happiness and go after what you want for YOUR life don't hope for it anymore. Or both divorced and committed not to ruin their relationship by getting married. |
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Post by cagedadventurer on May 31, 2016 18:11:32 GMT -5
I see that here - and elsewhere - you make a statement concerning "packing up & moving out" Brother chris. - Do you have the legal advice / doable exit strategy / shored up support network etc in place ? Very easy to discharge the Smith & Wesson straight in to your Nike's if you are not prepared. Thank you. Florida is a tough one. Legal advice says I'm screwed financially no matter what I do. Men become "indentured servants" after 20 years. It's a raw deal in all ways. So I figure as badly as she does not want this all to be long term and ugly, she will agree to some terms such as we buy a duplex or a town home in the same community due to the kids. I will make concessions and try to stick with a 5 year payout to help her get established or remarried. To keep my sanity regarding the utter unfairness of it all, I will look at any money out as the price for freedom no differently that I would pay if I had been unduly incarcerated but was offered a chance to buy my freedom. As it is, I am stuck in a rut and I want to feel free to live again. Regarding packing, I am packing all my things and moving into my spare bedroom first - just to start the upset and the conversation about where to move from here where we each have a place to live yet the kids are close. The fact that I am on this site and others for so long reveals how all consuming this issue is and how it is preventing me from moving forward in life in any respect - not like me at all. I try to disengage, look at it as a business arrangement BUT when you live with the refuser daily, it is not possible to "pretend". That said, she will not want to go all legal on me BUT IF SHE DOES, I do have my plan to make sure I do not miss my kids and I maintain the influence I have with them now. She is too dysfunctional to be the primary influence. |
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Post by baza on May 31, 2016 18:30:32 GMT -5
Although not pleasant news, your legal advice that you are "screwed financially no matter what I do" is actually good news, as it takes the financial considerations out of the equation.
You may as well do whatever you like, as it is not going to make any financial difference.
AND, you appear to have a fall back plan - plus a strategy to make sure you don't lose out on time with the kids etc.
You seem reasonably well prepared.
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Now, comes the "timing".
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You are right about this becoming all consuming.
So it should be - this is the rest of your life we are talking about here.
No small matter.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2016 20:53:42 GMT -5
Of course you are worth that. I eventually came to the mindset that HOPE is a waste of time. I even wrote about it on EP. Something to the effect of anything I ever accomplished in my life - my degree, losing weight, getting pregnant (you can't imagine how hard that task was with a refuser! And I accomplished it twice), my career, etc. None of it happened because I hoped it would, it happened because I actively went out after what I wanted to accomplish. Something to that effect I wrote about. I can relate to the lack of intimacy on vacation. My ex would spend the entire night out in a casino or if we were in a hotel with no casino he'd sit at the desk on his laptop until I fell asleep. He totally waited me out. As far as those couples in their 50's and 60's the ones that look happy I'm willing to bet that it's a second marriage. Just my jaded view of marriage. Find your happiness and go after what you want for YOUR life don't hope for it anymore. Or both divorced and committed not to ruin their relationship by getting married. Just a heads up: This is why I did not legally marry my refuser. We had both been married and divorced before. I had the idea that the institution of marriage was what ruined things. Not necessarily so. My first (legal) marriage ended, but sex was not a problem. Then my second (non)marriage ended...because he was a refuser. What I learned from this: the fact of being married, in and of itself, might not be the reason why a relationship doesn't work out. |
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2016 20:59:49 GMT -5
Or both divorced and committed not to ruin their relationship by getting married. Just a heads up: This is why I did not legally marry my refuser. We had both been married and divorced before. I had the idea that the institution of marriage was what ruined things. Not necessarily so. My first (legal) marriage ended, but sex was not a problem. Then my second (non)marriage ended...because he was a refuser. What I learned from this: the fact of being married, in and of itself, might not be the reason why a relationship doesn't work out. Indeed, I was being a little facetious. Just a little. |
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Post by baza on May 31, 2016 21:04:59 GMT -5
FWIW Sister SmartKat, I don't think being married or not makes a blind bit of difference to how a relationship turns out.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2016 21:14:16 GMT -5
FWIW Sister SmartKat, I don't think being married or not makes a blind bit of difference to how a relationship turns out. We know that the majority of marriages end up unhappy. The statistic to compare would be the number of long term monogamous unmarried relationships that end up unhappy. Anyone know? |
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2016 21:54:52 GMT -5
baza, I agree. I now believe there is no correlation between being married/not married, and whether the relationship works out well. And to get philosophical for a moment...how do we define a happy relationship? Knowing that nobody is going to be happy all the time, for the whole entire rest of their lives. Knowing that there will be difficult times. I was with my refuser for 14 years. The first 6 years were very happy. The next 5 years had some ups and downs. The sexual part of the relationship was starting to go south, but that didn't happen overnight; for me, it was the "boiling frog in the pot of water" scenario. So, I wouldn't say that years 7 through 12 of the relationship were really "unhappy." However, the last 3 years...now those years, yes, I would define as unhappy. Because I had realized that our sex life was fading fast, and this turned out to be a dealbreaker for me. And, are relationships meant to be happy for the rest of a person's life? Or are they going to go through phases? My parents have been married for almost 54 years. There were years in their marriage that I believe were definitely unhappy. But I also saw some years that seemed happy...both before and after the unhappy years. Who really knows?
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Post by Pinkberry on Jun 1, 2016 7:22:42 GMT -5
You wonder how she can go about her daily life not realizing that her actions are anything but normal. At the same time, by not bringing it up and pretending like everything else is just swell, you are contributing. I am not trying to sharpshoot you, but the normalcy part of this problem takes two. I get how that happens. Bringing up the SM thing makes for a lot of discomfort and sometimes for an unbearable home life.
Perhaps, if you are still there or for next time, ask her what the plan is for the vacation. When she asks what you mean, tell her. Or if she blathers on about beaches and restaurants, explain yourself. Tell her that you want to know whether the two of you will have any intimacy because to you that is a big part of the enjoyment of a vacation. Be honest that the lack of it has made you wish you hadn't bothered going in the past and ultimately makes you resentful because the two of you are not fulfilling that part of the marriage relationship. Let her know that it hurts you because vacation implies some special enjoyment of time spent together and you are not getting any special enjoyment out of these trips.
FWIW, I believe wholly in attachment parenting. I think the family bed is important and that comforting children and making them feel secure is essential and the role of both parents, not just one. Is there any possibility that she discussed with you the importance of being close with the children and you ignored it because you didn't share the opinion? If so, that could have created some resentment on her part. If that is possible, be prepared to take responsibility for how that made your wife feel and how it might be contributing to some overcompensation on her part now whereby she spends all of her intimacy on the kids.
Despite my beliefs in attachment parenting, there is no reason to expect a parent to spend all night with an 8 year old, particularly if they are asleep and won't wake when she gets out and back into bed. Unless there are special needs involved, like ASD or the like, I think it is more than fair to have a conversation about this. The occasional night with an 8 y/o who is frightened or just wants a night with mom and dad in their bed is one thing. Spending all her time in a bed with the child at that age is setting up the child for unrealistic expectations and a skewed relationship with you and your wife, as well as alienating the marriage.
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Post by itsnotmyfault on Jun 2, 2016 18:27:21 GMT -5
I can relate to this topic so well. We were going through our second lot of counselling trying to get the marriage back to where It should be, you know with intimacy and sex and fun. Anyway, having kids and no family that they can stay with we chose a South Pacific cruise, sounds idyllic doesn't it, soft ocean breezes exotic locations and built in baby sitters thanks to the kids club ! Nope, can't today "I've got a headache", the next day it was lack of sleep, the day after it was "not feeling it" (whatever that is !). My wife couldn't even hold my hand at a show one night when they played our wedding song !
Fast forward two years and I've got holidays due in September and my wife is pushing me to decide where we are going to have our holidays this year, I might as well stay at home, that way I won't build up any expectations and be disappointed when it all fails, again.
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