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Post by baza on Oct 3, 2019 20:18:19 GMT -5
Nice vent ! Observation - You say in the above - "My best friend recently told me "you are going to have to carry this whole thing because he will not. And you are going to have to be wiling to hurt him because he is going to freak out and cry every time to you try to move forward toward divorce. It is going to take you being incredibly strong." I think that's the truth. However, you have actually been carrying the load all by yourself from the get go Sister workingonit . So this is not an additional burden you face, it is a burden you have already been carrying for ages. Perhaps this is now the time to put down that burden. Let it rest .... .... then from the burden pick up the bits you own - and ONLY the bits that you own - and continue your forward momentum. You may find that carrying the bits you own is a far lighter burden than carrying the lot.
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Post by sadkat on Oct 3, 2019 22:51:53 GMT -5
I agree with your friend workingonit. You decided to stay for a very valid reason but it doesn’t seem to have helped your son or you. Perhaps it’s time to rethink your plan and find a way forward?
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Post by saarinista on Oct 3, 2019 23:57:33 GMT -5
workingonit Your situation might be a helped toward conclusion if your h had a spiritual advisor/teacher who's a lot more aggressive. No follow-up questions when your husband said "We have sexual problems?" that's unhelpful.
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Post by elynne on Oct 4, 2019 2:19:41 GMT -5
workingonit Your situation might be a helped toward conclusion if your h had a spiritual advisor/teacher who's a lot more aggressive. No follow-up questions when your husband said "We have sexual problems?" that's unhelpful. This “spiritual advisor” is a bit of a dunce, if you ask me. I was with him when he said some relationships should end. Well, duh! But then when he said that he thought the relationship shouldn’t end because H still loves you... Did he stop to ask how YOU experience the relationship??? Relationships are a two way street. They should be positive for BOTH people in the relationship. To hammer home my point with an analogy: A thief breaks into a jewelry store and walks away with a ton of loot. Your husband’s spiritual advisor would recommend “Keep it up! This is good for you. Well done,” because he neglects in it’s entirety the impact on the store owner. You have a right AND a responsibility to look after YOUR mental health. This is your first priority. Your husband and others are secondary. Just like the airplane instructions “in the event of an emergency oxygen masks will drop from overhead. Secure your mask first then help others”
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Post by ironhamster on Oct 4, 2019 7:00:56 GMT -5
There are a lot of "what if's", but none of them change where we are, now. We can't rewrite the past, but, today is the first day of the rest of your life. What are you going to do with it?
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Post by greatcoastal on Oct 4, 2019 7:44:25 GMT -5
1) More DARVO from your H! Denying,Avoiding and Reversing.
2)Response to H: "Wow, so sorry about that, what are YOU going to do about it?"
3) Sounds like ANOTHER tipping point ( not tipsy point LOL!)
4) Amazing how eye opening a week apart can be? It can really shine a spotlight on how well everything goes along without them!
5) All part of your healing journey! Glad you are getting your much needed support!
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Post by workingonit on Oct 4, 2019 8:23:53 GMT -5
The thing is, I actually feel bad for him. Imagine everything he is saying is true. Imagine you are a guy who is crazy in love with his wife and attracted to her and masturbates daily to fantasies of her (tgis is what he has said). Imagine being so crippled by your own insecurity that you cannot touch her for years. Imagine being so unhappy in your own body that you cannot touch the willing woman that loves you, despite years of her showering you with love, despite her literally offering to fulfill any fantasy you have. And then turning to food, which is your main vice that gives you comfort. But then gaining more and more weight, not helping your self esteem or ability to be present in your body, and making it more impossible to touch her.
So, no. He is not doing anything to "fix" it. He is not in therapy addressing his sexual anorexia. He is not exercising or changing his diet. His "hope" is just that I will magically see that his love is enough. It is not.
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Post by greatcoastal on Oct 4, 2019 8:32:23 GMT -5
The thing is, I actually feel bad for him. Imagine everything he is saying is true. Imagine you are a guy who is crazy in love with his wife and attracted to her and masturbates daily to fantasies of her (tgis is what he has said). Imagine being so crippled by your own insecurity that you cannot touch her for years. Imagine being so unhappy in your own body that you cannot touch the willing woman that loves you, despite years of her showering you with love, despite her literally offering to fulfill any fantasy you have. And then turning to food, which is your main vice that gives you comfort. But then gaining more and more weight, not helping your self esteem or ability to be present in your body, and making it more impossible to touch her. So, no. He is not doing anything to "fix" it. He is not in therapy addressing his sexual anorexia. He is not exercising or changing his diet. His "hope" is just that I will magically see that his love is enough. It is not. I am saying this with love and respect ( I too am guilty of this) These are the words of a GIVER. Where is the receiving FOR YOU? In any of this? You, my dear friend are enabling him to continue on his self defeating path. It's like allowing a child to fall down so they can learn.
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Post by workingonit on Oct 4, 2019 8:44:18 GMT -5
The thing is, I actually feel bad for him. Imagine everything he is saying is true. Imagine you are a guy who is crazy in love with his wife and attracted to her and masturbates daily to fantasies of her (tgis is what he has said). Imagine being so crippled by your own insecurity that you cannot touch her for years. Imagine being so unhappy in your own body that you cannot touch the willing woman that loves you, despite years of her showering you with love, despite her literally offering to fulfill any fantasy you have. And then turning to food, which is your main vice that gives you comfort. But then gaining more and more weight, not helping your self esteem or ability to be present in your body, and making it more impossible to touch her. So, no. He is not doing anything to "fix" it. He is not in therapy addressing his sexual anorexia. He is not exercising or changing his diet. His "hope" is just that I will magically see that his love is enough. It is not. I am saying this with love and respect ( I too am guilty of this) These are the words of a GIVER. Where is the receiving FOR YOU? In any of this? You, my dear friend are enabling him to continue on his self defeating path. It's like allowing a child to fall down so they can learn. You are not wrong. Codependency is fun, right? 😜 I am moving forward. Slowly, yes, but moving.
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Post by northstarmom on Oct 4, 2019 11:10:10 GMT -5
Why don’t you start having the compassion for yourself that you have for your refuser.
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Post by Apocrypha on Oct 4, 2019 12:54:31 GMT -5
"We have sexual problems," frames the behavior as something external to the relationship. You "have" this problem, in the same way that you catch a cold.
"I don't have sex with my wife," would show personal ownership, and would be specific.
"Try harder," says the rabbi, but ends up framing the problem as one of responsibility - likely closer to the mark and something that would play well in the ILIASM forum, where hurt and angry people who feel unappreciated, treat it as a lapse of etiquette or a missed opportunity to demonstrate how they feel. People don't seek out sex because they are responsible for having sex with them.
I think one of the best questions though, would be "Why don't you want to have sex with your wife?"
Specific, accountable, and addressing motivation rather than result.
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Post by ironhamster on Oct 4, 2019 13:05:05 GMT -5
So, he jerked off to your image but hid that from you, leaving you feel unloved. Ok. I am not sure where to go with all that other than to say he's had fourteen years to man the fuck up, and he can't even make that first step. That sounds more like self pity than love. I don't mean to seem hard on you. I gave my wife ten full years more than that. It never got any better.
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Post by deadzone75 on Oct 4, 2019 15:23:57 GMT -5
The thing is, I actually feel bad for him. Imagine everything he is saying is true. Imagine you are a guy who is crazy in love with his wife and attracted to her and masturbates daily to fantasies of her (tgis is what he has said). Imagine being so crippled by your own insecurity that you cannot touch her for years. Imagine being so unhappy in your own body that you cannot touch the willing woman that loves you, despite years of her showering you with love, despite her literally offering to fulfill any fantasy you have. And then turning to food, which is your main vice that gives you comfort. But then gaining more and more weight, not helping your self esteem or ability to be present in your body, and making it more impossible to touch her. So, no. He is not doing anything to "fix" it. He is not in therapy addressing his sexual anorexia. He is not exercising or changing his diet. His "hope" is just that I will magically see that his love is enough. It is not. I'm going to take a hard stance on your H and suggest his "insecurity" issue is just a convenient way to avoid sex. If he does have insecurities, you have gone above and beyond to make him feel like a king. I don't doubt he loves you; I doubt he is in love with you. Anybody who is actually in love with their spouse will at least make an effort to please them, and that doesn't include claiming to masturbate to your image in private. Furthermore, I do not believe for one moment that any man, no matter how insecure--and who allegedly wants to work on intimacy issues--wouldn't even attempt to touch you. And down the road, if the "insecurity" excuse starts to lose it's luster? Well, you can always gain weight and say, "Now look...now I'm overweight...now I really don't like myself and now I really, really can't touch you". I don't mean to seem overly crass, but it's a hot button with me-- refusers turning the tables, trying to gain sympathy from or making their spouses feel guilt. And all you want is what they promised to give you, and they twist and turn it like you ask for the impossible, like you are such high maintenance ( well, you want it too much...well, you want it this way...well, blah blah blah), like you are the one somehow betraying them.
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Post by workingonit on Oct 4, 2019 16:33:29 GMT -5
deadzone75 it is an interesting theory. My h was really thin when we dated and married. Recall we did not have sex with each other before marriage. After we got married he started gaining weight right away. Pics from the end of the first year are unbelievable when compared with wedding pics. There are lots of types of eating disorders and complicated ways body image is interwoven with so many other issues. My mother in law was morbidly obese and talked to me about how she felt safe inside her fat, like she was insulated from being hurt by others (read: men, read:sex as she lived a celibate life). It was not concsious but something she realized later in life when she tried to lose weight. Is it a surprise that my h started eating and gaining weight when he entered a sexual relationship? I think not. Either way it does not change anything. Nor does it change your correct assertion that he does not love me in any way I need to be loved. He simply does not, cannot, and will not. I know that. I am curious, though, about how many of our refusers use "body image" to avoid a sexual relationship.
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Post by deadzone75 on Oct 4, 2019 16:47:45 GMT -5
deadzone75 it is an interesting theory. My h was really thin when we dated and married. Recall we did not have sex with each other before marriage. After we got married he started gaining weight right away. Pics from the end of the first year are unbelievable when compared with wedding pics. There are lots of types of eating disorders and complicated ways body image is interwoven with so many other issues. My mother in law was morbidly obese and talked to me about how she felt safe inside her fat, like she was insulated from being hurt by others (read: men, read:sex as she lived a celibate life). It was not concsious but something she realized later in life when she tried to lose weight. Is it a surprise that my h started eating and gaining weight when he entered a sexual relationship? I think not. Either way it does not change anything. Nor does it change your correct assertion that he does not love me in any way I need to be loved. He simply does not, cannot, and will not. I know that. I am curious, though, about how many of our refusers use "body image" to avoid a sexual relationship. Early in my marriage, my W would complain if I wanted to leave the lights on during sex. She said she didn't like seeing herself, that she had a few unwanted pounds that made her self-conscious. I told her at length about how I wanted to see her, and that she didn't need to worry about her weight because she looked great. Well, she complained about "seeing herself" for years, which would routinely serve as a tie-in to the refusing of sex-- it's too light outside, I don't feel attractive today, etc. Her excuses were not limited to her self-image, not by a mile, but you get the point. Well, fast-forward to today, and she has lost all the weight that she wanted to lose (and then some)...and we have sex less now than we did back when body image was allegedly an issue.
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