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Post by dancingbear70 on May 25, 2016 18:14:31 GMT -5
@anniec -
I am sorry you are going through this. Your pain really comes through in your posts.
My advice would be to start marriage counseling as soon as possible. I waited way too long and developed my own narrative about our problems. Within just a few sessions, I realized that while I was in touch with my feelings, I had had no idea what my wife was thinking. We had/have lots of issues, but at least as long as we are in therapy, we have a venue of communication and a mediator/translator to assist. Even though it may be expensive, your sanity is worth it!
PS - FWIW, I used to take long road trips with very attractive women that worked for me. And frankly who I was very close to. Nothing ever happened. Wasn't worth the possibility of ruining my career.
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Post by snowman12345 on May 25, 2016 18:15:06 GMT -5
@anniec, take it from someone who does mess around outside of his marriage, this guy is cheating on you. Maybe he is not doing it for the sex, but for the conquest and the ego boost.
If you do decide to have sex with him again make him wear a condom or use a female condom for your own protection. You don't know where that thing has been!
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Post by dancingbear70 on May 25, 2016 18:20:32 GMT -5
@anniec , take it from someone who does mess around outside of his marriage, this guy is cheating on you. Maybe he is not doing it for the sex, but for the conquest and the ego boost. If you do decide to have sex with him again make him wear a condom or use a female condom for your own protection. You don't know where that thing has been! Maybe, maybe not. I would be careful presuming He's been a SM of his own creation for 12 years! There are multiple possibilities. Getting hung up on that one could be counter-productive to her figuring out her own path forward. |
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Post by snowman12345 on May 25, 2016 18:31:55 GMT -5
@anniec , take it from someone who does mess around outside of his marriage, this guy is cheating on you. Maybe he is not doing it for the sex, but for the conquest and the ego boost. If you do decide to have sex with him again make him wear a condom or use a female condom for your own protection. You don't know where that thing has been! Maybe, maybe not. I would be careful presuming He's been a SM of his own creation for 12 years! There are multiple possibilities. Getting hung up on that one could be counter-productive to her figuring out her own path forward. I'm in a sexless marriage, but I am having sex. You don't go off on trips without checking in if everything is on the up and up. Of course he denies it, but his interest in porn tells me he is not asexual. All of the STDs out there will mess you up - some will kill you - protecting yourself is a logical step if you have any doubt about his fidelity. I think she has plenty of reason to doubt.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2016 18:56:49 GMT -5
@anniec , take it from someone who does mess around outside of his marriage, this guy is cheating on you. Maybe he is not doing it for the sex, but for the conquest and the ego boost. If you do decide to have sex with him again make him wear a condom or use a female condom for your own protection. You don't know where that thing has been! Maybe, maybe not. I would be careful presuming He's been a SM of his own creation for 12 years! There are multiple possibilities. Getting hung up on that one could be counter-productive to her figuring out her own path forward. I agree strongly with both of you. Seriously. This guy is a peculiar bird. Gets married and immediately goes sexless: He's an asexual puss. But he at least dabbles in porn: He must have some sexual interest. @anniec, can you describe the porn you saw on his phone? Was it straight porn? He could be gay, and you're the beard. He's a captain of industry, highly motivated and capable: Not something normally associated with a low testosterone male. My Gaydar is starting to click a little more. He's a bit of a dick, appears somewhat controlling, and rips a woman from a very personally rewarding careered position in the place where I presume she grew up and has a tight family and friend structure. The old isolation trick: This sounds a little narcissistic, but I'm still baffled by the fact that he doesn't seem to be using sex as a control tool. Narcs would normally do that. Gaydar is still clicking here. Not publishing his travel plans and not calling on schedule doesn't bother me so much. And neither does traveling with a female colleague. It could just be carelessness. Lots of guys have that -- myself included. I wouldn't be concerned about the woman unless he's worked with her for a while and/or there are other reasons to be suspicious. If he's really planning a meteoric rise through a company he doesn't already own, there's no faster way to derail that than to go fucking around with employees or customers. I suspect he's too smart for that. @anniec, the men of ILIASM will get this all sorted out for you, but we need more information. |
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Post by warmways on May 25, 2016 20:18:49 GMT -5
Im sorry you're in this place. Your marriage sounds extremely similar to mine in most ways. I say that unless you feel love for him and want to try couples counseling ( for me it was a waste of time and it just prolonged the dysfunction), you gradually detach and quietly begin doing what you need to to move on from him, separate and divorce. He sounds like a person who is not going to change: EVER. If you're like me, As much as you have gotten used to hoping and praying that he would change-all these years demonstrates to you the unlikely 0.01% chance he will. Even if you love him and thought he was a good person - could you get past the resentment and want to make love to him again? You deserve all good things in your marriage. Begin really loving yourself and treating yourself really well  since he's not there for you and reading up on anything that can help you gain clarity and keep coming here to know that you're not alone. hugs |
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2016 20:51:32 GMT -5
I feel no love anymore, just hate and resentment. You are right about him not changing. Most therapists say that people typically will not change, but they can try to control their urges/behaviors. Thank you for the support! Im sorry you're in this place. Your marriage sounds extremely similar to mine in most ways. I say that unless you feel love for him and want to try couples counseling ( for me it was a waste of time and it just prolonged the dysfunction), you gradually detach and quietly begin doing what you need to to move on from him, separate and divorce. He sounds like a person who is not going to change: EVER. If you're like me, As much as you have gotten used to hoping and praying that he would change-all these years demonstrates to you the unlikely 0.01% chance he will. Even if you love him and thought he was a good person - could you get past the resentment and want to make love to him again? You deserve all good things in your marriage. Begin really loving yourself and treating yourself really well since he's not there for you and reading up on anything that can help you gain clarity and keep coming here to know that you're not alone. hugs |
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2016 21:11:16 GMT -5
I love a male point of view and have never had one other than my boss and he kept it mild to spare my feelings. Peculiar bird? Yes! You nailed it. I thought he was gay/bi for most of our marriage. His father is gay and one of his male cousin's is as well. So it was always on my mind. The porn I found was typical straight porn, disappointing! That left me even more confused and irritated! At least if it was gay porn I would know it's him and not me. I've offered to watch porn with him to get him in the mood, but he refuses. I've offered to bring in another woman for a threesome, but he refuses. Last week I watched a show on swingers and asked how if he'd be into that...big No on that. I don't think I could have gone through with it but thought I'd ask and see what he'd say. He actually said it would be breaking our marriage vows to bring in other people. He is very controlling...from what I drive to the clothes I wear to how we decorate our house...gay? Still a possibility. He is very homophobic which I hear is also a sign of being gay. I think he's using sex as control tool..the lack of interest on his part makes him feel powerful and leaves me feeling inadequate and unwanted. The woman he was traveling with was someone he just hired about a couple of months ago. She is 37 and younger than I am. Not attractive..I've seen her photos on linkedin and facebook but never met in person. The reason I am suspicious of her is because she cried on his shoulder about her husbands drinking problem when they were working alone for a week. Now I did some more cyber snooping and found out her house is for sale and she is not facebook friends with her husband. Sounds like she's headed for divorce so she has nothing to lose. She wants him to feel sorry for her and it's working. As creelunion pointed out he isn't stupid and wouldn't sleep with an employee. Thank you men of ILIASM for your thoughts and advice!!! @anniec , take it from someone who does mess around outside of his marriage, this guy is cheating on you. Maybe he is not doing it for the sex, but for the conquest and the ego boost. If you do decide to have sex with him again make him wear a condom or use a female condom for your own protection. You don't know where that thing has been! Maybe, maybe not. I would be careful presuming He's been a SM of his own creation for 12 years! There are multiple possibilities. Getting hung up on that one could be counter-productive to her figuring out her own path forward. I agree strongly with both of you. Seriously. This guy is a peculiar bird. Gets married and immediately goes sexless: He's an asexual puss. But he at least dabbles in porn: He must have some sexual interest. @anniec , can you describe the porn you saw on his phone? Was it straight porn? He could be gay, and you're the beard. He's a captain of industry, highly motivated and capable: Not something normally associated with a low testosterone male. My Gaydar is starting to click a little more. He's a bit of a dick, appears somewhat controlling, and rips a woman from a very personally rewarding careered position in the place where I presume she grew up and has a tight family and friend structure. The old isolation trick: This sounds a little narcissistic, but I'm still baffled by the fact that he doesn't seem to be using sex as a control tool. Narcs would normally do that. Gaydar is still clicking here. Not publishing his travel plans and not calling on schedule doesn't bother me so much. And neither does traveling with a female colleague. It could just be carelessness. Lots of guys have that -- myself included. I wouldn't be concerned about the woman unless he's worked with her for a while and/or there are other reasons to be suspicious. If he's really planning a meteoric rise through a company he doesn't already own, there's no faster way to derail that than to go fucking around with employees or customers. I suspect he's too smart for that. @anniec , the men of ILIASM will get this all sorted out for you, but we need more information. |
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2016 21:18:41 GMT -5
@anniec - I am sorry you are going through this. Your pain really comes through in your posts. My advice would be to start marriage counseling as soon as possible. I waited way too long and developed my own narrative about our problems. Within just a few sessions, I realized that while I was in touch with my feelings, I had had no idea what my wife was thinking. We had/have lots of issues, but at least as long as we are in therapy, we have a venue of communication and a mediator/translator to assist. Even though it may be expensive, your sanity is worth it! PS - FWIW, I used to take long road trips with very attractive women that worked for me. And frankly who I was very close to. Nothing ever happened. Wasn't worth the possibility of ruining my career. Dancingbear70 We've been to counseling twice. The last time was less than a year ago. The counselor tried to get through to him, he tried to show him how to be affectionate with me through role play. The counselor eventually saw how awful he was towards me and said I don't see this marriage surviving. My husband immediately followed with No, I love her..blah blah blah. Even after months of talking to a counselor he still refuses to budge on any issue and is nasty as ever. So much for I love her. |
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2016 21:28:47 GMT -5
@anniec you didn't mention children, so I'm hoping you don't have any, because that would certainly complicate things, but get your resume updated and look for a place to live into. Call your old boss and go back to a career that sounds like it filled your soul. My heart is breaking for you, girl. Z yes we have a 4 yr old together as greatcoastal mentioned. I am still figuring out this site and how to respond/post so please feel free to correct me. I am going to see how this plays out in NY. I am always welcome back at my old job so that's a relief! Going back home would mean our son wouldn't see his dad regularly and that would bother him. Feeling stuck because of that little precious boy. I'm pretty sure this is why he stays married to me...he can move around the country to advance his career and I come along with our son. I am a maid and nanny and nothing more to him. Oh and occasionally I am needed at a company function a couple times a year. An ex boyfriend of mine sends me messages on facebook every once in a while trying to get back with me. I've told him no over and over yet he keeps asking. If it wasn't for my son, i'd be back in Chicago and dating my ex! And who knows maybe happy for once in my life! |
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2016 21:36:49 GMT -5
Thanks everyone for all the advice and support. It's nice to be able to be open and honest about how I feel without being judged! And like I told another member on this site, it's real honest and at times harsh advice that I need-- and not advice from a girlfriend who will just tell me what I want to hear or what she thinks I want to hear. Curious. What are the girlfriends saying? Come back home? Most girlfriends are saying I should leave, but they understand why it's easier to stay. They man bash with me and probably hate him as much as I do, but in his presence they get hypnotized by his character. I look at them like WTF? Were we not just talking about how mean he is, that he may be gay and now you are best friends with him! I'm pretty sure one of them secretly likes him and would marry him if I left. Women will say one thing to my face and act another when he's around. Except for my friend of over 30 years..she's the only one that's not impressed by him and he knows it. She tells me to leave all the time! |
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Post by unmatched on May 25, 2016 21:37:56 GMT -5
What kind of relationship does your son have with his dad?
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Post by baza on May 25, 2016 22:04:07 GMT -5
What your spouse is doing (or is not doing) outside of the marriage is largely irrelevant. It is not a matter over which you have any control in any event.
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It is what he is NOT doing within the marriage that has driven the marriage in to the ditch. That's not a matter under your control either. The marriage IS in the ditch, and who's "fault" it was / who is to blame etc has also pretty much passed in to irrelevancy too. That is not going to get the marriage out of the ditch.
Indeed it reads like NOTHING is going to get the marriage out of the ditch.
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The key point, the relevant point, the point that YOU Sister anniec DO have control over, is whether you are staying - or going.
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And that, is going to be one of the biggest choices you will ever make.
I don't envy this responsibility you have to make the right call for yourself.
Choice is bitch, but no-one gets a pass on it.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2016 11:09:41 GMT -5
@anniec, I don't subscribe to the "Homophobes are closed Homosexuals" concept. I've never seen it in practice, and it doesn't work with any thing else. I'm not saying he's not gay, but being anti-gay isn't a gay trait I've ever seen.
But the fact that his father was a homosexual would be more indicative of problems with hetero-social relational developmental issues analogous of not having a father in the home, having an overbearing mother, repeating learned familial patterns, etc.
I'm thinking some of the experiences of the women here in similarly sexless marriages might be helpful.
Here's what I've learned from several years reading this stuff back on the EP ILIASM forum:
The women in sexless marriages that were married to men they deemed as Narcissists reported men that were VERY similar to yours -- highly successful and controlling. The main difference would seem to be that their husbands generally "Rationed" sex as a control method like the bad guys in Mad Max rationed water to their subjects. So, in general, the marriage wasn't totally sexless in the early going, but it was rationed to establish dominance and control until the narcissistic lost interest or found other means of control.
Perhaps your husband was rationing sex prior to you marrying him, and that formality was dropped after the papers were signed?
Perhaps the new form of control has become isolating you from your support structure?
Maybe he IS gay, and the homophobic protestations only occur when he's pressed or suspects he's being suspected as being homosexual? Kind of like an adulterer becomes rabidly anti-adultery when the texts to sweetheart are found?
Question: Would a group of Marines, Outlaw Bikers, or Oil Field Roughnecks consider your husband a "Masculine" guy, or is he more "Meterosexual"? Would a normal guy wonder about your husband's sexual orientation on an initial meeting?
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2016 11:51:31 GMT -5
@anniec, I'm really sorry you're in this boat. It sucks. I agree with @creelunion. Sex (or the lack thereof) is all about control - a total power-play, mind f**k. And it's cruel. And if your counselor already told you this marriage wouldn't survive, then you've got 2 choices - stay and figure it out or leave and figure *that* out. You might not be ready to do either one yet, and that's OK too.
Gather intel here and build an exit plan and it will all happen the way it's meant to. Or not. But at least you'll be prepared for either eventuality. I'm in a holding pattern myself. Hang in there until you are ready to act. Keep in touch with the old boss - that sounds like your ticket out!
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since he's not there for you and reading up on anything that can help you gain clarity and keep coming here to know that you're not alone. hugs
