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Post by Handy on Jan 24, 2019 20:54:00 GMT -5
Frustrated 1978 I learned many many years ago that no amount of chores or housework you undertake will improve a Refusers Sexual Desire for you.
But you still need to do your share of house and kid work depending on your W's work schedule.
Working women complain they have 3 kids, one 10 yes old, one 12 yrs old and one 37 yrs old.
Doing any thing and expecting something in return without you both agreeing on the terms is called a covert contract: I did X and she should Y.
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Post by shamwow on Jan 24, 2019 21:09:30 GMT -5
The WORST thing about believing the bullshit women say about helping with chores and she might be less tired in the evenings is you end up being her bitch. There have been a number of surveys and studies as to the relationship between a man doing the household choirs and an increase in frequency of intimacy from his female partner. All the ones I read have resulted in the same conclusion. One's efforts at "chore play" will not result in her feeling more rested or appreciative and thus more inclined to reward you with a bit of nukkie. Chore play is just one more piece of psycho babble trotted out by the so called relationship experts. When trying to fix my SM I read and tried so many of these marriage and relationship strategies I can't remember half of them. None of them worked for me and you are learning that they aren't doing much for you either. As I read your story I am struck by how abusive she seems to treat you. And for the life of me I cannot understand why you just seem to take it. You cannot possibly be that un-attractive unless you are a modern day Quasimodo, and I seriously doubt that. My friend I believe you need a crash course in confidence. Doing things that you enjoy and that perhaps put you in a place or position to interact with others could quickly show you that you aren't someone to be shunned. I've known a lot on "shall we say" less that movie star material guys who's looks will never get them on the cover of GQ. But they don't let that stop them. Hell I'm one of them. I suggest you give some thought to what type of activities you have dreamed of or enjoyed in the past and see if you can't find a means to get your hands around some of them. Google "Meet Up" and look at the myriad of groups of strangers that get together to participate in an activity they all enjoy. Seriously, find a way to get away from the tyranny she subjects you to, if just for a few hours a day. The sooner the better for you. I believe you are being a bit too hard on him. My take on human experience is based on the philosophy that you tend to be molded by those you associate with. Yes, I know it isn't a shocking revelation, but people who hang with criminals are likely to become criminals themselves. Those who hang with aid workers tend to want to help others. When you are in a situation like this long enough where you are constantly rejected, that role becomes ingrained and exceedingly difficult to alter. It isn't just that one needs to get more confidence. It is that you need to associate with people who make you feel confident. That simply cannot happen in a sexless marriage. The very person who you share a bed, child rearing, and finances constantly reinforces to you that your needs are not important. Likely this is because the person who is supposed to love you more than anything else does not think YOU are important. So once again we find ourselves pondering the two options. Stay or leave. Cheat is a coping strategy for each of these but usually does not solve the underlying issues of the marriage. The only exception to this could be an open marriage or something like bballgirl who has more of a "don't ask don't tell" kind of arrangement. As baza points out, if you want to have a fulfilling and intimate relationship, it is exceedingly unlikely with your spouse if you've wound up here. If you leave, it is no guarantee you will find someone, but you have to be available in order to have that chance. The reason ballofconfusion and I have a great relationship is not just about the sex (although that is amazing). It is great because we honestly care about each other and our partner's needs (in bed and out). We are not friends with benefits. We are fríends with everything. But none of that would have been possible without that impossibly-hard decision we each made to leave (and break away from our spouses who truly didn't care). I am grateful beyond belief that both of us took that step to allow us to take the one after that together. That shit was HARD. So I'm thinking you might be a tad too hard on lessingham
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Post by shamwow on Jan 24, 2019 21:10:55 GMT -5
I learned many many years ago that no amount of chores or housework you undertake will improve a Refusers Sexual Desire for you. It is the greatest myth since big foot. ' If anything taking a harder line and perhaps refusing to assist with the housework will at the very least bring this matter back to the negotiating table. There she will either sit down and decide she will blow up the relationship or she might actually reevaluate the deal and decide it is not in her interest to leave her meal ticket, babysitter, house helper etc therefore possibly negotiating more sex in your marriage. Word of warning though previous experience on these boards indicates any change negotiated is usually short lived. Choreplay is a great past time of sexual martyrs everywhere. God knows I served my time on that cross 🤣
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Post by shamwow on Jan 24, 2019 21:12:58 GMT -5
Frustrated 1978 I learned many many years ago that no amount of chores or housework you undertake will improve a Refusers Sexual Desire for you.But you still need to do your share of house and kid work depending on your W's work schedule. Working women complain they have 3 kids, one 10 yes old, one 12 yrs old and one 37 yrs old. Doing any thing and expecting something in return without you both agreeing on the terms is called a covert contract: I did X and she should Y. What if the work schedule is stay at home mom for middle school and high school kids? I remember doing so much laundry and waiting for my ex to take the hint and at least fold it that I literally had to go out and buy clean underwear. I couldn't get it from the pile of clean clothes because the pile of clean would crash into the pile of dirty and I'd have to start again. Of course sometimes I got lucky - not in the bedroom, silly. I got lucky because the maid would come and fold them for her. I used to really love having clean underwear!
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Post by Handy on Jan 24, 2019 23:53:26 GMT -5
Shamwow, I was mostly saying be responsible for your share of running the household. If the W is a SAHM then the H wouldn't have to do that much like you did (assuming here).
When my W was a SAHM, she did 95% of the non heavy household chores and I had a full time and a part time job. Anything heavy, outside or maintenance I took care of. I worked too much because I wanted to have the money to pay future bills and expenses. What I should have done is say no to some of our purchases. As it was there wasn't enough "we time" and I wore out some discs in my back.
Much later I tried to make up the time I should have been spending at home with the family but by then doing more chores didn't reverse the drifting apart.
I read "No More Mr Nice Guy" and one of the main points in the book is what called a "covert contract" where I do things hoping my W does something I want, without working out the details ahead of time.
I fixed up a decent car for my grand daughter and gave it to her. I was expecting she would use it to go to work, save some money for college and so her mom didn't have to take her to work. Guess what? The grand daughter works too many hours and spends everything she makes but doesn't have $22 to buy oil and an oil filter for the car's 5,000 mile oil change, so I did the oil and filter change and put another $120 in parts so the car's windows work and to fix the grill she messed up when she ran into a truck. Yea, she is too broke to fix or maintain a decent car but she has an Apple watch and some tattoos, among several other things that cost under $100. I am done! I thought me helping her would lead to her helping herself save for a better education. Covert contract on my part didn't work as I thought.
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Post by lessingham on Jan 25, 2019 4:00:40 GMT -5
I do like the idea of covert contracts! One of the hardest things about sexless marriages is the why. If the person who loves us rejects us and causes us this much pain, there must be a reason. And if that person never tells us the reason then we cannot heal the situation. So, we cast around for reasons. Is it me? Am I ugly, smelly, fat, a pervert? Is it my behaviour, too crude, too grabby, too needy? We always look inwards for the reasons. And so the searches begin. I look online for what is normal in a sex life, is once a week ok? Daily? I trawl through articles to see if my expectations are unreasonable. I read endless books with titles a variation on "why she won't sleep with you" and the idea of the tired woman needing help with chores is repeated over and over. I can do this, I say and the descent into Cinderella begins. In truth there is no reason. My wife looks for reasons to give me and latches onto ideas too. So, I/we waste energy and time on solutions that never will work because that is not the "reason". So finally there is the Quasimodo reason. I am the reason, the fault and the ugly thing that cannot be desired. It is a lie, but it is a lie that seems to explain. A sharing of the worst day of my life. I was on a boating holiday with friends. As we worked on the canal near a school sone girls were watching. One stood up, walked over to me and said, "my friends and I think that even if you had hair you still would be ugly." that devastated ne, but what killed me was I had to join in the laughter of my friends and pretend I saw the joke too. Took me a long time to recover from that one and it gave me a convenient hook to hand the reason my wife will not make love to me.
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Post by baza on Jan 25, 2019 4:38:33 GMT -5
Here's a big ILIASM truth for you Brother lessingham . THE "WHY" DOESN'T MATTER. Even if you knew what the "why" was / is it makes no difference to the facts on the ground. It makes no difference to your options and it makes no difference to your outcome. Your missus' issue whatever it is, is her exclusive property and is for her to deal with and her alone. You have no control over that at all. 'Some' "why chasing" is just about unavoidable in our situations. But don't make a career out of it. I would lay claim to being the greatest "why chaser" in the southern hemisphere whilst in my ILIASM deal. All it got me was older. I never discovered what the "why" was (though I have several dozen things it might have been) and even if I had fluked on the right one, it wasn't my problem to fix. And whatever my missus' "why" was, she wasn't interested in finding out or trying to fix it. Truly mate - THE "WHY" DOESN'T MATTER. It does not make any difference at all to your options.
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Post by flounder on Jan 25, 2019 6:17:52 GMT -5
When you are in a situation like this long enough where you are constantly rejected, that role becomes ingrained and exceedingly difficult to alter. - shamwow
I call it beaten dog syndrome.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2019 6:20:42 GMT -5
Here's a big ILIASM truth for you Brother lessingham. THE "WHY" DOESN'T MATTER. Even if you knew what the "why" was / is it makes no difference to the facts on the ground. It makes no difference to your options and it makes no difference to your outcome. Your missus' issue whatever it is, is her exclusive property and is for her to deal with and her alone. You have no control over that at all. 'Some' "why chasing" is just about unavoidable in our situations. But don't make a career out of it. I would lay claim to being the greatest "why chaser" in the southern hemisphere whilst in my ILIASM deal. All it got me was older. I never discovered what the "why" was (though I have several dozen things it might have been) and even if I had fluked on the right one, it wasn't my problem to fix. And whatever my missus' "why" was, she wasn't interested in finding out or trying to fix it. Truly mate - THE "WHY" DOESN'T MATTER. Trying to figure out "why" has made me near batshit crazy over the years. I've learned to let that quest go once and for all since finding this forum. It's a freedom I am most grateful for and has helped me focus my energies on what I do have control over.
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Post by shamwow on Jan 25, 2019 7:26:10 GMT -5
Here's a big ILIASM truth for you Brother lessingham. THE "WHY" DOESN'T MATTER. Even if you knew what the "why" was / is it makes no difference to the facts on the ground. It makes no difference to your options and it makes no difference to your outcome. Your missus' issue whatever it is, is her exclusive property and is for her to deal with and her alone. You have no control over that at all. 'Some' "why chasing" is just about unavoidable in our situations. But don't make a career out of it. I would lay claim to being the greatest "why chaser" in the southern hemisphere whilst in my ILIASM deal. All it got me was older. I never discovered what the "why" was (though I have several dozen things it might have been) and even if I had fluked on the right one, it wasn't my problem to fix. And whatever my missus' "why" was, she wasn't interested in finding out or trying to fix it. Truly mate - THE "WHY" DOESN'T MATTER. ballofconfusion got her "why" answered in a quite unambiguous manner. He is homosexual. Didn't help at all. Quite the opposite as a matter of fact.
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Post by ironhamster on Jan 25, 2019 7:41:07 GMT -5
I will second the notion that the "why" doesn't matter, in the grand scheme. Some of us find out why. I have resigned myself to believing I will never have resolution. I can list possibilities, but, the end result is the same. I spent a quarter century trying to woo a woman that never once wanted to fuck me, and, now, I have moved on from that.
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Post by lessingham on Jan 25, 2019 10:23:32 GMT -5
The why does not matter. Ok, and any reason given is probably a half lie anyway. Today I changed my email password and reclaimed my privacy
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Post by Handy on Jan 25, 2019 12:32:40 GMT -5
Lessingham some girls were watching. One stood up, walked over to me and said, "my friends and I think that even if you had hair you still would be ugly."
If some boys did that to a woman I would say the boys were showing of for their friends because some kids have this idea anything than perfection is only what is acceptable. I think the girls also have this "perfection attitude"plus some "show off" attitude and it fueled by internal insecurities for them and one way for the girls to feel better is to put down other people. It is worse when people are in groups. I have witnessed decent people becoming cruel when in groups. I bet the girl that said that to you would have been nice to you if she were alone. My guess is she was showing off to impress her friends.
Another thing, you were on a boating holiday (something you most likely paid for by having a job) and they where students, something appropriate for their age. Kids make mistakes they wouldn't do when they reach maturity.
There isn't a lot people can do for many of their own physical or biological features. Too many people get hung up on appearances, especially young people.
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Post by jamesbonding on Jan 26, 2019 5:26:26 GMT -5
lessingham, google "Sean Stephenson". 3 foot tall guy in a wheelchair. Inspirational speaker, author, therapist. Married (happily, as far as I know) to a normal-looking woman. He has made a bunch of YouTube videos. Just being bald-headed is no big deal. Some women find bald-headed guys attractive! If you look "odd" in other ways, it may be harder for you to find a woman who would be attracted to you. But just put yourself out there. If you put your mind to it, you can find someone who will love you just as you are. Dancing classes sounds like a great idea.
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endthegame
Junior Member
Posts: 96
Age Range: 46-50
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Post by endthegame on Jan 26, 2019 7:46:58 GMT -5
It's worth googling Transactional Relationships. There is a balance between transactional / loving. One is people do things for each other because they love someone, and vice versa, the other is people try to buy favour, sex, items etc. Purely transaction based relationships don't work. One can not buy love by doing chores. Work on yourself, be the best you that you can be. Your wife may or may not notice, but that is irrelevant as YOU will be a better you.
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