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Post by WindSister on Jan 18, 2019 8:39:49 GMT -5
baza talked about letting some air out of the emotional balloon and I think I have another way to do that, too. I was at an energy conference this week and got into a conversation with 6 divorced women. I observed how they "all" have "narccisstic" exes who are horrible, unhappy people. They all have horrible new women and they are all actually miserable. Inside my head I was going, "hmmm..... is that really true?  " I bet it's not. When it was my turn I said my ex and are both happy now, we just weren't good together. It's okay if your ex is a good person. A happy person. A successful person. A loved person. None of that means you should be good together. You aren't "the bad one" just because they aren't either. I have to get to work but wanted to get this initial thought out there. Of course, I have more thoughts on it, but that's the gist. Make it a great day. 
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Post by WindSister on Jan 18, 2019 9:09:27 GMT -5
I have a couple minutes to add some more thoughts.... When I first divorced, yes, I wanted to feel better about myself, so I did concoct this story about my ex's new woman. I mean, she is complete opposite of me. She's Lita Ford - leather pants, bling galore, high heeled shoes, makeup with glitter, and glitzy long nails. I suppose a part of me was like, "WTH??" But a part of me was also thinking, "If I had just been LIKE HER, we could have worked." So I felt bad for a tiny bit (very tiny bit). The thing is - if we are either too much or too little for someone, they are not the person for us. My now husband loves me and he proves it daily in word, action and deeds. And, I am just me - hiker boots, short, clean nails, no bling except my wedding ring. I am "enough" for my now husband and HE is enough for me. We complement each other. (we get told that a lot, actually). My ex and his new woman complement each other, too. We didn't fail. We were just mis-matched. My husband's ex is a little different story - she and I are actually a lot alike. They weren't as mismatched as just matched too young and didn't know how to love until it was too late. In the beginning, yes, I wanted to spin her as a horrible person. She's not. There doesn't need to be a "bad guy" in divorce. Yes, in some cases the other truly IS a bad person - I am just talking for the majority of people. Course, I believe in the song, "most people are good." But, the point is, it's okay if after divorce your ex is happy and thriving - if anything that just proves the theory you were mismatched. Don't take it as a personal failure. Go thrive yourself!  |
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Post by shamwow on Jan 18, 2019 9:53:56 GMT -5
My ex wife isn't really a good person and we also were mismatched. 😂
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2019 13:12:20 GMT -5
I love this post! Thank you! I am coming to see this, too. While still with my husband working on this SM, some progress is being made and giving me hope. That said, I see the differences in us, too, and other areas - beyond the bedroom - that require work. In looking at our relationship in it's entirety, I am coming to see that it may very well be that we don't make it to forever, BUT if that is the case, I do believe it would be an amicable parting of the ways because we may just not be compatible. I can totally see this ending with an, "I love you and have a good life" kiss, instead of an implosion of anger, hate and loathing that might have otherwise happened (and we have touched on a few times during fights already when nearly splitting). This brings me some comfort. I don't hate him and don't want to hate him. I love him and hope we make it to forever, but if not, I hope and pray it's a civil and peaceful parting of the ways so he can find someone best suited for him and be happy and me, the same. Thank you for this post. I love the message of positivity among what sometimes are such negative posts - understandably, so, of course, considering the theme and purpose of this forum.
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Post by baza on Jan 18, 2019 16:51:28 GMT -5
It is a fact that in many marital breakups the spouses find it necessary to find fault with the other, apportion blame, and take the moral high-ground.
None of these things have any practical use in bringing an ILIASM shithole to resolution.
None of these things have any practical use in developing a new relationship with your ex post ILIASM shithole either.
Whether you (or your spouse) was a paragon of virtue or a complete dud isn't especially relevant.
Fact was that you were irretrievably incompatible, and that ain't necessarily anyone's "fault".
And the chances are, that your spouse was/is an OK person. Quite possibly capable of being a good partner for someone else.
And chances are, that you are an OK person too, quite capable of being a good partner to someone else.
Further, if you are anything like me you'll find plenty of your own shit to sort out post ILIASM - without worrying too much about your ex spouses shortcomings.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2019 1:03:22 GMT -5
I agree with you WindSister. My ex is happier now, visibly so, and I’m happier too. I’m glad that both of us are in a better place. It was just a terrible match.
That said, my ex did have some rather nasty behaviors and my therapist, friends, and family labeled him a narcissist and a high functioning alcoholic. Now that I’m out and looking back at some of the things he did to me, I agree with those labels. He really wasn’t good to me.
It could be that I brought out the worst in him. It could be that another woman would bring out the best in him. I’m not sure. Maybe it’s the bad match between people that makes them behave poorly?
I said in another thread that I believe these SMs weigh heavily on both spouses. If you think you’re doing your spouse a favor by staying, look again, they may not be so happy either. I know that was true for me. My ex seems so much better off without me. And I am perfectly ok with that, happy for him even.
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Post by workingonit on Jan 19, 2019 18:17:32 GMT -5
I have been thinking about this so much.
I feel like it is natural in this steady movement toward divorce that I am in to want to demonize him. It somehow makes an easier story in my head. But it is wrong. He is not bad or evil. I have not been perfect or blameless. We are just not compatible and have twisted things so badly to end up sexless for 9 years.
I feel like for me, our kids, him, our friends, I need to FORGIVE him and myself and actually want the best for him. This feels healthy but far from where I am honestly at. I feel somehow threatened by forgiveness- like if I forgive him we wont divorce and I will be stuck here forever. I want to be able to hold my truth that we cannot be what I need and forgive him.
Good Lord this is hard work!!
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Post by nyctos on Jan 19, 2019 18:36:28 GMT -5
I'm not sure I'd even want to know anything after any divorce.
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Post by baza on Jan 19, 2019 18:40:06 GMT -5
I have been thinking about this so much. I feel like it is natural in this steady movement toward divorce that I am in to want to demonize him. It somehow makes an easier story in my head. But it is wrong. He is not bad or evil. I have not been perfect or blameless. We are just not compatible and have twisted things so badly to end up sexless for 9 years. I feel like for me, our kids, him, our friends, I need to FORGIVE him and myself and actually want the best for him. This feels healthy but far from where I am honestly at. I feel somehow threatened by forgiveness- like if I forgive him we wont divorce and I will be stuck here forever. I want to be able to hold my truth that we cannot be what I need and forgive him. Good Lord this is hard work!! Indeed it is hard work Sister workingonit . Possibly the most (or at least one of the most) challenging processes you will ever go through .
And that process is just as difficult whether you end up making a fully informed choice to stay - or to leave.
The "demonizing" thing is often the catalyst to get you moving (and/or keep you moving), but that's about all it is useful for.
Comes a time where you recognise "it is what it is".
And what it is, is acceptable (and you stay) or unacceptable (and you leave) |
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Post by caballotierra on Jan 21, 2019 21:56:35 GMT -5
@workingonit Forgive then as soon as you possibly can. And it’s for your sake, not theirs. Holding onto hate will rip you apart and make you feel miserable. How do I know? That’s the road my w is taking, and it is skewing her perspective and ruining her life. Though I’d uou ask her, she’ll say I am the one ruining her life.
Is my ex a good person? I think so. I had a similar bad story at first. It made it easier to process pain. But ultimately, it doesn’t matter if she’s a good person, a bad person, a faithful person, a sexless person, an abusive person, or an asexual person. She wasn’t able to love me the way I needed, and I wasn’t able to do the same for her. And I am starting to see that I will be happier without her. She may get there too or she may not. It’s honestly not my problem anymore what she thinks or is she’s happy. And that makes me feel so light and full of peace.
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Post by workingonit on Jan 21, 2019 22:48:21 GMT -5
@workingonit Forgive then as soon as you possibly can. And it’s for your sake, not theirs. Holding onto hate will rip you apart and make you feel miserable. How do I know? That’s the road my w is taking, and it is skewing her perspective and ruining her life. Though I’d uou ask her, she’ll say I am the one ruining her life. Is my ex a good person? I think so. I had a similar bad story at first. It made it easier to process pain. But ultimately, it doesn’t matter if she’s a good person, a bad person, a faithful person, a sexless person, an abusive person, or an asexual person. She wasn’t able to love me the way I needed, and I wasn’t able to do the same for her. And I am starting to see that I will be happier without her. She may get there too or she may not. It’s honestly not my problem anymore what she thinks or is she’s happy. And that makes me feel so light and full of peace. Can I love this?? Thanks. Need to hear this. He wants me to stay. He wants to keep trying. It goes with his story that I am leaving, that I am not willing to stay and fight for our marriage. It makes me defensive and bitter about the years of neglect and refusing to work that I have endured to get to this point. It is, ultimately, a meaningless argument. He is not capable of loving me how I need to be loved. I am no longer interested in loving him how he wants to be loved. Like yoda baza said, it is what it is. |
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Post by caballotierra on Jan 23, 2019 12:38:34 GMT -5
It's all subjective. Bottom line, if you are unwilling to stay and keep trying, you've hit your bottom line. I hit mine (so i thought), then realized I would be willing to try again. She said no (twice), and honestly, we'll both be better off for it. Absolutely a meaningless argument that you will have with yourself for years to come (so I've heard). I have friends who are now 10 years out of a bad marriage and they still wonder if they could have done anything different. Yoda baza seems to have a good perspective on all these things, so I defer to their judgment. Hang in there. You will be okay, if not even better than ok. |
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Post by elkclan2 on Jan 25, 2019 5:55:19 GMT -5
Well my ex is a bad person and I would judge him so even if I hadn't been married to him. He was verbally and emotionally abusive. He may well be happier without me though. I was so beat down by his abuse that I was a bit of a downer to be around. He knew when our marriage was rocky that he'd probably not find anyone else. He still hasn't. Not my problem. He has told me since we split that he can't 'do relationships' and this is certainly right. This isn't all his fault - I'm quite sure he is on the spectrum and he really doesn't do relationships well. He still has good qualities but his moral compass is now pointed toward the sewer. That's on him though and not his neurological wiring.
My partner's ex? Also not a good person. She be batshit crazy with serious anger issues. She was abusive to my partner and she is abusive to her children. In fact, I have been sitting on info about that that my son told me (that my older stepson told him) and I haven't told my partner yet (I must do that - though obviously it's then 3rd hand). BUT BUT BUT - she also still has many fine qualities and actually some of her child-rearing approaches have seeped into my household by osmosis and some of them are really good! (That doesn't make up for the fact that she's abusive in other ways.) For example, her kids have always had to ask to be excused from the table. This was never my rule. My son now asks me if he can be excused!!
She also doesn't have a partner. I cannot see how she could possibly be happier without my partner... although he for sure has his faults (which she never failed to enumerate) he's positive, cheerful, pulls more than his weight around the house, and he is calm and thoughtful, affectionate and loving. Yes, the shit she criticised him for is still there - he is a little clumsy, he's bad at gifting, he's not particularly handy in the handy-man kind of way, he can be disorganised and forgetful - (think absent minded professor) and he makes Columbo look like a sharp dresser (he's always clean and does his own laundry he's just crumpled and casual), but she was finding fault so that she could blow up, vent anger and feel better about herself. Oh and he wears shoes until they literally don't keep the water out or the feet in, however,I found that if I just go buy him new shoes on my own he will wear them. Job done. She would certainly say that she's happier without him because his 'betrayal' in leaving was unforgivable. (Which is fair enough.)
Sometimes really shitty, broken people have a harder time finding someone new once their dating pool reaches a certain maturity level. Sometimes they also find takers and find a balance. Sometimes they find a new victim. I don't need to find joy in the fact that our exes are terrible people. I don't find joy in it. I'd have rather found joy in being married to one person only ever. But I can also find some joy in the fact that i've traded up on 95% of partner qualities.
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Post by rejected101 on Feb 27, 2022 19:10:59 GMT -5
baza talked about letting some air out of the emotional balloon and I think I have another way to do that, too. I was at an energy conference this week and got into a conversation with 6 divorced women. I observed how they "all" have "narccisstic" exes who are horrible, unhappy people. They all have horrible new women and they are all actually miserable. Inside my head I was going, "hmmm..... is that really true? "  I bet it's not.  When it was my turn I said my ex and are both happy now, we just weren't good together. It's okay if your ex is a good person.  A happy person. A successful person. A loved person. None of that means you should be good together. You aren't "the bad one" just because they aren't either.  I have to get to work but wanted to get this initial thought out there. Of course, I have more thoughts on it, but that's the gist.  Make it a great day. It’s probably not true. People like to make themselves feel better by assuming or claiming that their ex is worse off now then they were when with that original person. I lost some inheritance so financial I was taken for a little ride but I am most certainly far far far better off without her. In fact I would be better alone than with my ex. |
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Post by northstarmom on Feb 28, 2022 10:23:17 GMT -5
When people's energy goes into trashing their ex, they aren't healed from their former relationship and aren't ready for a new one. If that's all they can talk about, they also aren't the kind of people I want in my life even for a same sex friendship.
I'm glad to be divorced. I wish my ex well. By the last years of our 34-year marriage, we simply weren't compatible.
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