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Post by bballgirl on Dec 11, 2018 15:34:53 GMT -5
So as baza would wisely remind you: in being firm each time about not taking it anymore and then subsequently ripping up those papers again and again, you have “shred your cred” with your h. You have threatened multiple times to take action but have gone back on it every time. He goes right back to the behaviors you keep putting up with. So why would he be motivated to change beyond just enough change for a short enough time to continue to make you stay? It’s worked every other time so why wouldn’t it again? (Just trying to illustrate how he might be thinking, whether consciously or not.) So what is the straw that would actually break the camel’s back for you? It seems you thought you already reached that multiple times, yet here you still are. You’ll need to figure out your actual boundaries, clearly communicate them to him, and not just threaten to take action but actually do it (and follow through!) if he crosses those boundaries. But first you need to decide if you actually WANT to follow through or not. So far that answer has been no. And that is ok! But if you honestly don’t want to leave him you need to figure out what you WILL put up with and a way you can truly be ok with it. (Not just kind of ok until the next time you can’t take it anymore.) I know that this is not easy and I’m sending you hugs. Maybe take a look at @elle ‘s story in case it could give a little clarity. You are absolutely 100% correct and I do not disagree with you at all. No, I do not want to end my marriage, which is why I am trying so many things and being so patient. No, I can't live like this though either. The hurt and resentments are just building. What DO I want? I want my husband to get his head out of his ass and come to counseling with me so we can work thru this, but he refuses. My therapist said I am the one doing all the work and my husband is doing the bare minimum to nothing at all. My therapist says it's ultimatum time, that if my husband won't participate and work with me, there's nothing more I can do on my own. I agree with this, but just haven't been able to bring myself to that point yet. 😢 Thank you for your words of honesty and support. I know I have a hard decision ahead of me. This sucks!! 😞😞 My H refused to go until I announced that I was getting a divorce. Then he wanted to go but too little too late - I no longer wanted to be his wife. We went to one session at the end the therapist told him to get a lawyer. Ultimatums can work. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2018 15:50:35 GMT -5
You are absolutely 100% correct and I do not disagree with you at all. No, I do not want to end my marriage, which is why I am trying so many things and being so patient. No, I can't live like this though either. The hurt and resentments are just building. What DO I want? I want my husband to get his head out of his ass and come to counseling with me so we can work thru this, but he refuses. My therapist said I am the one doing all the work and my husband is doing the bare minimum to nothing at all. My therapist says it's ultimatum time, that if my husband won't participate and work with me, there's nothing more I can do on my own. I agree with this, but just haven't been able to bring myself to that point yet. 😢 Thank you for your words of honesty and support. I know I have a hard decision ahead of me. This sucks!! 😞😞 My H refused to go until I announced that I was getting a divorce. Then he wanted to go but too little too late - I no longer wanted to be his wife. We went to one session at the end the therapist told him to get a lawyer. Ultimatums can work. Thank you .... I'm working up to being able to utter those words. It is so hard when he is otherwise kind to me and takes care of me. If he would only cheat on me or be an asshole at home I can't help but think I wouldn't be in this mess, hanging on so long. |
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Post by solodriver on Dec 11, 2018 18:52:39 GMT -5
This is the reason whey I've taken so long to ponder, plead my case with my refuser and other things to not have to go down the road I will be going down. I've never threatened to do anything with her, I've just expressed numerous times over the years that I'm very unhappy and disappointed in the relationship and that something has to change. I made suggestions to help change things and improve the relationship, each one rejected.
So now my thinking is, she had her chance! No amount of pleading, tears, promises are going to make me come back to the table. If it wasn't important in the past, it won't be important in the future. She will only be trying to protect herself and still not give a shit about me. That's the way I see it.
I'm using the vision of a happier time in my future to keep me motivated. Being in loving arms trumps her needs at this point. Game over.
Call me an asshole I guess. |
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Post by bballgirl on Dec 11, 2018 20:21:55 GMT -5
This is the reason whey I've taken so long to ponder, plead my case with my refuser and other things to not have to go down the road I will be going down. I've never threatened to do anything with her, I've just expressed numerous times over the years that I'm very unhappy and disappointed in the relationship and that something has to change. I made suggestions to help change things and improve the relationship, each one rejected.
So now my thinking is, she had her chance! No amount of pleading, tears, promises are going to make me come back to the table. If it wasn't important in the past, it won't be important in the future. She will only be trying to protect herself and still not give a shit about me. That's the way I see it.
I'm using the vision of a happier time in my future to keep me motivated. Being in loving arms trumps her needs at this point. Game over.
Call me an asshole I guess. There is nothing about anything you wrote that is bad or warrants being called an asshole. You are a kind and patient man and good things come to those who wait. You will find your happiness I know it! |
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Post by choosinghappy on Dec 11, 2018 20:44:52 GMT -5
A friend posted this on social media today and man, is it pertinent:  |
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Post by solodriver on Dec 11, 2018 20:52:27 GMT -5
Thanks bballgirl, I just imagine someone will say that about me or she will say that. Guess it's just my self-esteem is a bit down right now. I try to look forward to a more positive 2019. It's certainty going to be a year of major changes for my life.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2018 8:19:33 GMT -5
This is the reason whey I've taken so long to ponder, plead my case with my refuser and other things to not have to go down the road I will be going down. I've never threatened to do anything with her, I've just expressed numerous times over the years that I'm very unhappy and disappointed in the relationship and that something has to change. I made suggestions to help change things and improve the relationship, each one rejected.
So now my thinking is, she had her chance! No amount of pleading, tears, promises are going to make me come back to the table. If it wasn't important in the past, it won't be important in the future. She will only be trying to protect herself and still not give a shit about me. That's the way I see it.
I'm using the vision of a happier time in my future to keep me motivated. Being in loving arms trumps her needs at this point. Game over.
Call me an asshole I guess. After being kind and patient for so long, something has to give. Eventually it becomes "it's not about you anymore, it's about me". That doesn't make you an asshole. |
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Post by solodriver on Dec 12, 2018 21:20:17 GMT -5
Thank You whynotm3. That's exactly how I feel.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2018 18:37:50 GMT -5
I wished for many years to "not care anymore". It's sad, you lose a little bit of yourself but it is possible. That isn't the problem in and of itself the problem is that at first it feels so good to release the resentment, to realize you don't care anymore (or at least not very much) but then you begin to realize the other things you let go of along with it. Now you are left, as a "stayer" with the emptiness of not caring about the person at all. I've come to the conclusion that her relief that I no longer seemed to want to "work things out" or discuss our sex life has lately been replaced by the understanding that I just don't care very much at all....about anything in our relationship. I don't know where this will go because we've never been here before.
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Post by carl on Dec 17, 2018 19:16:46 GMT -5
I wishes for many years to "not care anymore". It's sad, you lose a little bit of yourself but it is possible. That isn't the problem in and of itself the problem is that at first it feels so good to release the resentment, to realize you don't care anymore (or at least not very much) but then you begin to realize the other things you let go of along with it. Now you are left, as a "stayer" with the emptiness of not caring about the person at all. I've come to the conclusion that her relief that I no longer seemed to want to "work things out" or discuss our sex life has lately been replaced by the understanding that I just don't care very much at all....about anything in our relationship. I don't know where this will go because we've never been here before. I know what you mean about the empty feeling that replaces the gap that was filled by trying to negotiate sex. I made that gap appear some time ago. One thought comes to mind and that is whether to consider filling that gap with people or things. I chose things, projects work etc due to how I was feeling but that has left me weak and I think people are a better investment to fill that gap. |
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Post by baza on Dec 17, 2018 20:44:03 GMT -5
Ideally, you fill in "the gap" with a full on program of things that are going to help in your personal development, and that field is limited only by your imagination. So it may well include both "people" AND "things" Anything that helps the authentic *you* emerge out of your rut, and gets you making fully informed choices based on your longer term best interests. I would point you toward Brother greatcoastal in this respect, his run of stories (all of them right back to when he started thinking about divorce) show this 'personal development' and 'making informed choices based on his longer term best interests' rather well. It includes a few fuck ups along the way too ! Essentially, his is a tale of helping the authentic greatcoastal emerge - and then, the authentic greatcoastal sorting the rest out himself. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2018 14:20:17 GMT -5
This is the reason whey I've taken so long to ponder, plead my case with my refuser and other things to not have to go down the road I will be going down. I've never threatened to do anything with her, I've just expressed numerous times over the years that I'm very unhappy and disappointed in the relationship and that something has to change. I made suggestions to help change things and improve the relationship, each one rejected.
So now my thinking is, she had her chance! No amount of pleading, tears, promises are going to make me come back to the table. If it wasn't important in the past, it won't be important in the future. She will only be trying to protect herself and still not give a shit about me. That's the way I see it.
I'm using the vision of a happier time in my future to keep me motivated. Being in loving arms trumps her needs at this point. Game over.
Call me an asshole I guess. After being kind and patient for so long, something has to give. Eventually it becomes "it's not about you anymore, it's about me". That doesn't make you an asshole. It does, however, give the other person an opening to call you a selfish asshole. Back when I cared more, almost any time I brought up sex I was told the usual things "All you care about is sex." "Men are always so horny" etc. The underlying message is that you are selfish for wanting more sex, more support, more love as you understand it. When you've lived with that for a long time it's almost impossible to not feel a little selfish when you make it about you. Just keep reminding yourself that's not you. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2018 14:33:11 GMT -5
After being kind and patient for so long, something has to give. Eventually it becomes "it's not about you anymore, it's about me". That doesn't make you an asshole. It does, however, give the other person an opening to call you a selfish asshole. Back when I cared more, almost any time I brought up sex I was told the usual things "All you care about is sex." "Men are always so horny" etc. The underlying message is that you are selfish for wanting more sex, more support, more love as you understand it. When you've lived with that for a long time it's almost impossible to not feel a little selfish when you make it about you. Just keep reminding yourself that's not you. @tooyoung ... my husband calls me NEEDY all the time. He says my sex drive is higher than any other woman he's ever been with. He tells me I'm insatiable and all I think about is sex. 7 years of that. You know what, I don't care anymore what HE says. It will hit me at times, that feeling of, "maybe there is something wrong with me" or maybe "my expectations really are too high" but then I quickly remind myself SO WHAT IF THEY ARE?! It's my life to live as I please. It's MY job to be ok with MY life and MY choices, not his. I LOVE SEX! Lots of it! Just because MY drive is high, doesn't make it any more wrong than HIS drive being so comparatively low. The challenge is finding a way to come together and find a middle ground. Neither side / desire (IMO) is wrong, and I have stopped myself from thinking that way .... am trying to at least. Yes, keep reminding yourself that there's nothing wrong with you for wanting what you want. As I said, eventually it does become ME or HIM? Am I living for HIM or am I living for myself? I choose me. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2018 17:37:24 GMT -5
It does, however, give the other person an opening to call you a selfish asshole. Back when I cared more, almost any time I brought up sex I was told the usual things "All you care about is sex." "Men are always so horny" etc. The underlying message is that you are selfish for wanting more sex, more support, more love as you understand it. When you've lived with that for a long time it's almost impossible to not feel a little selfish when you make it about you. Just keep reminding yourself that's not you. @tooyoung ... my husband calls me NEEDY all the time. He says my sex drive is higher than any other woman he's ever been with. He tells me I'm insatiable and all I think about is sex. 7 years of that. You know what, I don't care anymore what HE says. It will hit me at times, that feeling of, "maybe there is something wrong with me" or maybe "my expectations really are too high" but then I quickly remind myself SO WHAT IF THEY ARE?! It's my life to live as I please. It's MY job to be ok with MY life and MY choices, not his. I LOVE SEX! Lots of it! Just because MY drive is high, doesn't make it any more wrong than HIS drive being so comparatively low. The challenge is finding a way to come together and find a middle ground. Neither side / desire (IMO) is wrong, and I have stopped myself from thinking that way .... am trying to at least. Yes, keep reminding yourself that there's nothing wrong with you for wanting what you want. As I said, eventually it does become ME or HIM? Am I living for HIM or am I living for myself? I choose me. As you can imagine, I have thought about this a lot over the last 29 years of marriage. I have consoled myself by thinking of her libido as just another physical attribute like foot size. You can wish that your spouse had bigger feet or smaller feet all you want, you can talk about it, go to therapy but if the basic problem is just that they have a different size of feet then it's unsolvable. But consoling isn't true understanding. Sex is unique in a relationship in a way that is allegorical to other elements but also is difficult to provide in other ways. If you have a partner that craves dialogue but you're an introvert, the partner can find friends and family to talk with. But, if a more active, intimate, sharing sex life is important to your happiness then you can only get that within the relationship. What my wife has never understood is that it's not a physical need (there's the needy thing) but a metaphysical one. Sex without a close, loving relationship doesn't interest me much. Sex within one is impossible where I am now. No wonder it's so hard, even after you choose you. That's what I find so difficult and why this board often reads like "oh god people, just leave the relationship". |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2018 18:02:35 GMT -5
No one said it was easy, or even fair for that matter @ tooyoung. I am right there with you in wanting the physical closeness and connection to my spouse that sex provides. To my husband, sex is just that, an emotionless physical act. To me, it is so much more. What I say to myself ... if I don't / can't connect to him the way I need to and am programmed to, then how connected are we really? Then the choice comes up again: accept and stay, or desire more and leave. Sending you hugs. I understand how hard this dilemma is. @tooyoung ... my husband calls me NEEDY all the time. He says my sex drive is higher than any other woman he's ever been with. He tells me I'm insatiable and all I think about is sex. 7 years of that. You know what, I don't care anymore what HE says. It will hit me at times, that feeling of, "maybe there is something wrong with me" or maybe "my expectations really are too high" but then I quickly remind myself SO WHAT IF THEY ARE?! It's my life to live as I please. It's MY job to be ok with MY life and MY choices, not his. I LOVE SEX! Lots of it! Just because MY drive is high, doesn't make it any more wrong than HIS drive being so comparatively low. The challenge is finding a way to come together and find a middle ground. Neither side / desire (IMO) is wrong, and I have stopped myself from thinking that way .... am trying to at least. Yes, keep reminding yourself that there's nothing wrong with you for wanting what you want. As I said, eventually it does become ME or HIM? Am I living for HIM or am I living for myself? I choose me. As you can imagine, I have thought about this a lot over the last 29 years of marriage. I have consoled myself by thinking of her libido as just another physical attribute like foot size. You can wish that your spouse had bigger feet or smaller feet all you want, you can talk about it, go to therapy but if the basic problem is just that they have a different size of feet then it's unsolvable. But consoling isn't true understanding. Sex is unique in a relationship in a way that is allegorical to other elements but also is difficult to provide in other ways. If you have a partner that craves dialogue but you're an introvert, the partner can find friends and family to talk with. But, if a more active, intimate, sharing sex life is important to your happiness then you can only get that within the relationship. What my wife has never understood is that it's not a physical need (there's the needy thing) but a metaphysical one. Sex without a close, loving relationship doesn't interest me much. Sex within one is impossible where I am now. No wonder it's so hard, even after you choose you. That's what I find so difficult and why this board often reads like "oh god people, just leave the relationship". |
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