Life after death

There’s a lot of good info and advice here, and even if it is hard to hear I think it’s worth listening to.

Re: your story, when I met my husband we were BOTH fresh out of relationships with people who were pretty screwed up. Mine you know about. My husband’s ex was clinically depressed to the point she couldn’t work, physically and emotionally abusive, with probable serious personality disorder and/or something like bipolar. I never met her and I’m not a shrink, but having heard the gory details of her out of control, toxic, volatile, abusive behavior, I can say she was not in any kind of mental health.

When I met my husband, he gave me the full download. He was pretty traumatized (read: extremely) and had a lot to say. But it didn’t scare me because he wasn’t angry at her, he was more in shock. He had true PTSD. But he never called her names, never said she was evil or completely responsible for everything. He could still see her good qualities and her humanity, despite how terribly he had been treated. And he felt guilty because he had hurt her too by leaving her in a pretty dramatic way, more or less running for his life. Sort of realizing you’ve been in a cult and getting the hell out of there.

At this point I was still married—it was about a month before we split. Later, after it was over and it became romantic with my now husband, I told him the download too.

But when people ask me “why did you get divorced,” including people who do and don’t know my ex, I say “he’s not a bad guy, but he had a lot of problems he refused to deal with and eventually I couldn’t wait any more.” I feel this is accurate, not too revealing, and also takes responsibility for my part in it ending. I never told anyone about sexless part except those I felt were truly close friends, and I never told anyone he would consider his friends or family.

I think when casually dating, women (especially divorced women) REALLY don’t want to hear about what a shit your ex was on the first date (even if she was), in the same way we don’t want to hear about your mother. Keep it light!

And if you feel that you have to say more (because you’re asked about it), acknowledge your anger in a healthy way that shows you are trying to move past it, instead of calling her names. You can say, “to be honest, my marriage became pretty dysfunctional over time and I’m still angry about parts of it. But now that I’m out I feel so liberated and excited to be in a mature, healthy relationship with a mature, healthy woman.”

I doubt I would discuss my divorce if I had a first date. I really don’t want to know all about “his” divorce on a first date either. This is very personal, and can come out on possible subsequent dates and conversations. I’d use the first date to find out common interests, and just get to know each other better to see if you have a rapport/connection, before sharing something that personal, and like you alluded, once you open the gate on your former marriage and divorce, it can snowball, and you can end up saying far too much than you planned. This could be a bit much for a first date. Just my 2¢, as I have zero experience on modern day dating.

I greatly appreciate your input,along with many other posts of yours! I have just a few comments. Your date (at the time) gave you the full download, you did not run away in fear. Obviously, since he is now your Husband! You also downloaded on him, and you are now his wife. Both fresh out of relationships and pretty screwed up? That has to say something?

So much for keeping it light! yet I agree with the the truth in that. I guess there can always be exceptions.

As far as name calling goes? The very few rare times I have used the word "bitch" is when it's attached to manipulative controlling. A word/label I learned from the book " Boundaries In Marriage". In fact more people responding to my posts have used the "bitch" name than I have.

Even the term narcissist is used mostly on this forum. I recall telling my attorney " my wife is a manipulative controller". That did not seem to register, so I used the label narcissist. my attorney replied, " oh everyone claims that" I thought to myself " you will soon find out". Later my attorney said things like " your wife is a real piece of work! Your wife is one of the most manipulative people I have ever worked with, does your wife have Aspergers Syndrome?"

So the most detrimental words I use about my ex is "controlling, loveless, sexless, master manipulator and greysexual" and that's to a select few.  I don't see that as me being a person full of anger.

If keeping it light, means keeping way lighter than that and avoiding it until the time is more appropriate I certainly can give that my best shot without feeling like I am just sticking my head in the sand again.

I love your success story!

Help me understand some of this better. At times we will agree to disagree.

1) " no one can take advantage of you without your consent". have you read that somewhere, or been taught this? I immediately disagree with this when I think of people who have been physically and mentally abused without agreeing to it. Also the people who were manipulated, conned and taken advantage of who do see the light far too late.

"While I have not been taken advantage of in romantic relationships". Really? You mean like your 36 yr. marriage? I will let you go back through your own posts about how you where taken advantage of during your marriage.

2)  I see myself being on an entire different track in a different direction, because the past is in the past, and I learned from it and escaped from it. I knew very little about red flags then. It's time to start putting all my current teaching into action, use it or lose it. Not ,sit at home and recover for another year, instead to actually be with another woman again, while carrying my shield of knowledge and past experience.

3) Here's a scenario for you:

I went to Honest, Honorable Henry's Used cars, and bought a used car. A very nice clean place, good service, great selection, decent prices. Larry the salesman helped me.

My car broke down completely one week later, I go back to speak to Henry. The name has changed, the used car dealership is now Lying, Lucrative, larry's Lemons. The sign doesn't change though.
Larry informs me my one week guarantee means business days ,they are open 4 days a week." you are SOL, it sucks to be you".

So do I now have to be 100% healed and healthy before I ever buy another used car? Do I have to now completely forgive Larry, and say nice things about him everywhere I go, and recommend him to other people? If I tell anyone about larry will people have the right to think " you are a bitter angry person? and that you are just as responsible for buying a car at Honorable Henry's Used Cars.

Meanwhile down the street I see a used car in a driveway. It turns out the owner has passed away, she only drove it to church on Sunday, and the family is  anxious to sell it at a low price. But i shouldn't buy it because, I am still not very pleased with Larry.

Sometimes you give a mixed message, while your efforts to be helpful is greatly appreciated!

So you basically stuck your head in the sand,but at the same time you gave him your trust.Trust is a two way street, a controler makes the decision for it to be a one way street, their way. They know that you will cave and do what it takes to satisfy them and put your needs last. A controller will fill you with lies like mine did about moving money.

It's like leaving the garage door open while you are home and someone steals your bicycle. How is that your fault that they came onto your property and stole something that was not theirs? Because you didn't lock it gives them no right to steal it.  The same goes with your trust.

No you don't refer to things, instead you make bold factual statements that are not correct.

You are baffled about me adopting children 6 times? 

I will explain that.  3 of my children are biological. Our 4th child was a miscarriage. A year later my wife asked me how I felt about adopting a girl? It was nowhere in my mind, she had already done the research. If you think about it, it was more manipulation. Her doing all that research to present her case, before even asking me how I felt about it.
Our kids where 5, 4, and 21/2 at the time. This was 12 years ago. I was 42 and she was 40. 

I was given quite a sales pitch into all the advantages of adoption, my greatest weakness was played upon," we will be helping someone as well". Little did I know that our sex and intimacy would stop then, and procreation was over.

My wife learned more and more about adoption. She counseled other couples about it, and gave talks and classes about it to numerous people, especially on line. It became her thing, not mine.

5 years passed and my wife approached me numerous times about adopting another child, during those 5 years. I wasn't interested or ready. However I had been working/volunteering with child care for 7 yrs,so I too was very heavily involved with children and homeschooling my own 4 kids.

I slowly caved to the pressure. My mind rationalized the idea of another older child, " what's one more? WE have the money, our house was big enough, my younger son would no longer feel like the middle child, I am home and available, I am already buying and cooking for 7 (most meals are packaged for 4 so I often had enough cooked for 8) all kinds  of rationalizations went through my mind. I also put myself last. I was quit used to it with our children first approach, all for the good of the children.

We applied to adopt a  10 yr old boy .7 months into our adoption we found out the boy had violent behaviors and did not want to put our daughters at risk. He would need lots of mental and physical therapy, there were no doctors in the state of Fl. qualified to meet his needs. We where asked to pick another child. With help from the whole family we did that. ( my son has his own unique story of his abandonment)

26 days before our trip to China my wife showed me pictures of a 13 yr. old boy who had been up for adoption for 3 1/2 yrs. In 26 days he would be 14. You are no longer eligible for adoption  at that age. At 16 they put kids in the street and no one will hire them, due to there new name that says adopted. They have 3 choices, join a gang, beg for food, or become a prostitute.  We were the only couple on the planet who were far enough in the process to adopt him. 

I was very hard for me, to say no to that! I would have felt very selfish.

I gave it a lot of thought, mostly all about my other children and how an older boy would even things out for the other children. 

A lot of miracles happened! One of them was the strings that were pulled by a friend who knew a former ambassador to China. We arrived during Chinese New Year. The entire Government is closed for weeks. They opened the consulate just for us on that one day. We arrived a day late. They changed our sons birth certificate and made him 13 yrs and 366 days old!

That is why I have 6 children. As time went on and my wife continued in her career much of the load of teaching and raising 6 kids was more and more on me. My wife liked the tax right offs, she probably liked all the excuses for putting our relationship way on the back burner, she liked the status of " you are such good people, look at your wonderful family!" While she detached herself from her husband more and more. She had her daddy living with her and all these children and her job, who needs a husband anymore? 
In fact I believe it was ...you! who told me back on EP " your wife is using you and is going to throw you away like a dirty diaper once the last child is 18. She has no respect for you at all, dump her and get out of there!"

And that's what I did.

The thief is wrong and will be prosecuted,and justice will be served.I am not going to keep everything locked all the time and live in fear. Especially in a marriage. A marriage is designed for both parties to trust, submit,and share on an equal bases.Fear and a locked up heart, has no place in a marriage.

There are very few regrets to our two adoptions. I was easily led. ( I did say no to adoption for many years), I said maybe,let's try it for a year to homeschooling. During therapy ,with help, I told her "I hate it, I hate it, I hate it, and our kids do too". Homeschool was dismantled, but not totally she still had control by using the children and playing on their fears. I said let's try it for a year to FIL living with us, I said after two years, he is a problem and not needed. My no's where ridden over like a tank. it took divorce to give my "no" any power.

Much of my ex's control revolved around the computer , her passwords, and government clearances. Even the kids declared, "mom is a terrible teacher on the computer, she is to fast and really doesn't want to show you too much ,she wants to have control and do it herself".

I would think you would understand all that is involved under the broad umbrella of "codependent" more than anyone? I guess I am wrong?

Are there specific actions that I took that affected my marriage negatively? YES.

I desired strong sex and intimacy after the wedding , not vanilla. My actions of asking for more drove her further away.
I allowed her to handle finances. my requests to be informed and involved drove her to more isolation and secrecy.
I allowed her to put EVERYTHING on the computer. That allowed her to deceive the whole family. She would keep things on her computer at work and spy on our home computer from work. Something I will never get my hands on.
I allowed her to continue her career while mine ended. I gave her power and trusted her to use it fairly.
I allowed her to convince us that homeschool was needed. My arguments where quickly reversed and it would take days before I would realize what happened.
I ignored her detachment since she was never all that attached to begin with. Any action to inform her of her ways lead to her digging in her heels and retreating more and more.
I stayed for my children. I put myself last.

Changes so I won't end up in another dysfunctional relationship?

I am financially independent and will remain that way.
I say no much easier, I enforce consequences even when that means not being liked or accepted.
I say no to volunteering and feel that continuing to raise my children is enough.
I am much more interested in giving , AND receiving. Not just giving and then holding out for a crumb.
I am independent and don't need a woman. Marriage and family are no longer my everything. I may get my heart broken again, but recovery will be easier because I will have boundaries.
My teens are older and more independant. Future relationships will not revolve around children.
I am not letting pride and fear stop me from asking for things that give me joy.
I am more open minded to experiencing new things, being bold and taking risks.
My mind needs a break!

I sent a text to this new woman, I said " your neighbor told me more about you, I wanted to share some of the same information with you". I proceeded to tell her more about myself.

A half an hour later I get a response. She tells me her correct age, she is ten years older than me. That feels above what I am wanting. She tells me of her three wonderful sons, a lot about them!

Then came this," I am not looking for a boyfriend, I have been single for the last 10 years and God seems to have that best for me, though I have very close friends that are like brothers and a few woman. And she thinks all of my children would love her sons artwork.

I told her " I received her message and that I had 4 lawns to mow. I hope to speak with you more later today."

She told me to "stay Hydrated"

I almost responded with " yes mother" but I did not!

After our brief communication  I felt that I would be happy with a platonic friendship.

I texted back " maybe you and I can make it on each others friends list? Friends can be priceless! It's always good to continue to meet new people!" Then I told her where she can see some of my paintings on line.

I've heard nothing back.

All new ground for me. Sometimes I feel I have no idea what i am doing, and then other times I feel I did pretty good. I am always learning.