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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2018 12:46:16 GMT -5
This has been on my mind a lot lately. My wife and I don't sleep in the same bedroom anymore, she was a reluctant sexual partner at best and then it all ended almost completely 18-months ago, we do things together but mostly it's just daily management. What chores are we doing tonight, tomorrow? We need a smaller house. What things need to be done to sell next Spring? What does this kid or that kid need?
The balance of good/bad isn't yet bad enough to say, "end the marriage" but is it a marriage at all?
How do you all manage that internal dialogue?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2018 13:14:38 GMT -5
Legally, yes. Emotionally, no.
What to do about that is entirely up to you - and your legal spouse.
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Post by flashjohn on Aug 20, 2018 13:35:52 GMT -5
In my opinion, without sex, you are not in a marriage, you are mere roommates. I think this mindset helps a person stay. If you don't expect sex, you don't worry about it so much. The flip side is that you stop thinking of your spouse as a sexual person.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2018 14:58:26 GMT -5
In my opinion, without sex, you are not in a marriage, you are mere roommates. I think this mindset helps a person stay. If you don't expect sex, you don't worry about it so much. The flip side is that you stop thinking of your spouse as a sexual person. That's exactly where I'm finding myself. I stopped expecting sex and, wha-la, it suddenly felt better to be me. Now I'm on the back side of that and can clearly see that the downside is that it's impacted not only my expectations of her (very little) but that I'm drifting away without the connection that even occasional/bad sex brought. Be careful what you ask for.
Flashjohn, if I recall correctly, you are out of your marriage now?
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Post by flashjohn on Aug 20, 2018 15:04:49 GMT -5
In my opinion, without sex, you are not in a marriage, you are mere roommates. I think this mindset helps a person stay. If you don't expect sex, you don't worry about it so much. The flip side is that you stop thinking of your spouse as a sexual person. That's exactly where I'm finding myself. I stopped expecting sex and, wha-la, it suddenly felt better to be me. Now I'm on the back side of that and can clearly see that the downside is that it's impacted not only my expectations of her (very little) but that I'm drifting away without the connection that even occasional/bad sex brought. Be careful what you ask for.
Flashjohn, if I recall correctly, you are out of your marriage now?
Yes, I am. However, I stayed with the marriage for 28 years. So I really think I understand why a person would want to stay and how he/she can do it effectively. I feel like staying was the right decision even though I lost so much time and lost so much of myself. However, I did not have to deal with child support and custody issues. |
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Post by choosinghappy on Aug 20, 2018 15:06:05 GMT -5
In my opinion, without sex, you are not in a marriage, you are mere roommates. I think this mindset helps a person stay. If you don't expect sex, you don't worry about it so much. The flip side is that you stop thinking of your spouse as a sexual person. That's exactly where I'm finding myself. I stopped expecting sex and, wha-la, it suddenly felt better to be me. Now I'm on the back side of that and can clearly see that the downside is that it's impacted not only my expectations of her (very little) but that I'm drifting away without the connection that even occasional/bad sex brought. Be careful what you ask for.
Flashjohn, if I recall correctly, you are out of your marriage now?
I agree with this. Once I realized all my H and I would be is roommates/coparents and that we’d had sex for the last time it was pretty easy to detach myself from thinking of him like a husband anymore. I stopped desiring him and started desiring others. It made my life inside my affectionless marriage EASIER on me but it also came with a shelf life because I refused to live in a “marriage” like that. Marriages include sex. And lots of it IMO. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2018 15:19:20 GMT -5
What did you find to be the shelf life in months between "no sex expected" to "outta here"?
I hit "nothing expected" at 28 years of marriage, that was about a year ago.
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Post by choosinghappy on Aug 20, 2018 17:10:43 GMT -5
What did you find to be the shelf life in months between "no sex expected" to "outta here"? I hit "nothing expected" at 28 years of marriage, that was about a year ago. @tooyoungtobeold2 I think it would be different for everyone. Mine was pretty quick (maybe 8 mos between starting to outsource until making the decision to leave) but I think part of that was because I had real clarity on it being extremely unlikely to EVER get better. The other part of that is just due to my personality; I am quite independent and also I just blatantly refused to remain unhappy. |
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Post by baza on Aug 20, 2018 18:57:05 GMT -5
You're not really "choosing to stay" as a brand new thing here Brother @tooyoungtobeold2 .
"Staying" has actually been your choice up until now, it's not like it's a brand new option for you.
Really, it is more a matter of "choosing to continue the path you're already on".
Anyway, taking ownership of, and responsibility for, your choice to continue staying is the way to go.
Accept your missus for who and what she is.
Cease taking her inventory and stop trying to change her.
Recognise the reality of the situation (in my case back in the day it was that the marriage was a "Financial Partnership") and adjust your expectations according to the reality.
Forget any notion of there being an "us" in play.
Take the pressure off, by ceasing to try and make the relationship in to something it cannot be.
Accept it for what it is.
This approach was successful for me back in the day...it worked (if we are judging success by us staying under the one roof) for over 5 years, which is a pretty good result (in my opinion).
But it is like any short term solution....it has a shelf life.
However, if it works (even if only for a while) then it has value.
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Post by flashjohn on Aug 21, 2018 9:25:39 GMT -5
What did you find to be the shelf life in months between "no sex expected" to "outta here"? I hit "nothing expected" at 28 years of marriage, that was about a year ago. I stopped expecting anything after 2 years of celibacy AND being screamed at that my penis didn't even work anymore. She cut me off in 2010, and I stopped expecting anything in 2012. When she would start her criticism, I would remind her of celibacy. My youngest went to college in the fall of 2015. On Jan 18, 2016, she asked why I seemed so depressed. I told her that I was down because I had not had sex in 6 years, and it looked like I never would again. She told me that it was all my fault, and I should be happy and fulfilled in a marriage that never included sex. A week later, she agreed to make an appointment with a gyno to find out what the problem was. She agreed to make an appointment in 2 weeks. After 2 weeks, she told me she had NOT made an appointment and would if/when she felt like it. I started looking for an apartment. Three weeks later, I moved out.
I decided that since there were no kids at home and we no longer owned a house, there was no reason for me to allow myself to be treated this way. I stayed for so long because she had told me that if I divorced her, she would move my daughters away and do everything she could to make sure I never saw them again. However, I am proud of myself that once my daughters were out of the equation, I only put up with her abuse and neglect for 6 months before I had enough.
And I am very glad that I did not have to deal with custody/child support issues. It is interesting to point out that my ExW absolutely refuses to help my daughter at all with her college expenses. Oh, and she has about $85,000 in the bank. She can have it. I got out with my health and most of my sanity.
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Post by greatcoastal on Aug 21, 2018 11:01:35 GMT -5
What did you find to be the shelf life in months between "no sex expected" to "outta here"? I hit "nothing expected" at 28 years of marriage, that was about a year ago. It sounds like you have had a 'tipping point" ? a "deal breaker" a "breaking point", an "ahah moment"? Some of us need more than one, and that's okay. Mine took about a year before I felt justified in my actions to pull the plug. Or, in your case to realize "this is how it's going to be and I can accept that". One thing that was helpful , in my case, was couples counseling.This way with a mediator in the middle my ex did not have as much manipulating control, compared to at home, same environment, kids around, etc... You also have the power and control to know you can bring it up next week. One that comes to mind was how my ex called my conversations with her "useless dribble". That is a tipping point. Very disrespectful, but it sure explains where her mind is. It exposed the truth. The ball was then in my court as to what I wanted to do about it. |
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Post by workingonit on Aug 21, 2018 11:53:17 GMT -5
In my opinion, without sex, you are not in a marriage, you are mere roommates. I think this mindset helps a person stay. If you don't expect sex, you don't worry about it so much. The flip side is that you stop thinking of your spouse as a sexual person. This is helpful to read so starkly explained. I think this has been the main thing that has kept me in my deal for the last 9 sexless years. I think I just stopped expecting anything to ever change and just accepted the roomate status. But yes I totally stopped thinking of my spouse as sexual. He is like a friend or even a brother. This is the thing that makes me believe more than anything else that there is no hope. As desperate as I am to have sex if he offered I do not think I could. |
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Post by flashjohn on Aug 21, 2018 15:42:11 GMT -5
In my opinion, without sex, you are not in a marriage, you are mere roommates. I think this mindset helps a person stay. If you don't expect sex, you don't worry about it so much. The flip side is that you stop thinking of your spouse as a sexual person. This is helpful to read so starkly explained. I think this has been the main thing that has kept me in my deal for the last 9 sexless years. I think I just stopped expecting anything to ever change and just accepted the roomate status. But yes I totally stopped thinking of my spouse as sexual. He is like a friend or even a brother. This is the thing that makes me believe more than anything else that there is no hope. As desperate as I am to have sex if he offered I do not think I could. It helped me tolerate the situation. Actually, for about the last 3-5 years of when we were still having sex about 6-8 times a year, I could not climax unless I thought of someone else. Heather Locklear worked for me, LOL! |
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Post by twotimesone on Aug 31, 2018 0:48:58 GMT -5
What did you find to be the shelf life in months between "no sex expected" to "outta here"? I hit "nothing expected" at 28 years of marriage, that was about a year ago. I stopped expecting anything after 2 years of celibacy AND being screamed at that my penis didn't even work anymore. She cut me off in 2010, and I stopped expecting anything in 2012. When she would start her criticism, I would remind her of celibacy. My youngest went to college in the fall of 2015. On Jan 18, 2016, she asked why I seemed so depressed. I told her that I was down because I had not had sex in 6 years, and it looked like I never would again. She told me that it was all my fault, and I should be happy and fulfilled in a marriage that never included sex. A week later, she agreed to make an appointment with a gyno to find out what the problem was. She agreed to make an appointment in 2 weeks. After 2 weeks, she told me she had NOT made an appointment and would if/when she felt like it. I started looking for an apartment. Three weeks later, I moved out.
I decided that since there were no kids at home and we no longer owned a house, there was no reason for me to allow myself to be treated this way. I stayed for so long because she had told me that if I divorced her, she would move my daughters away and do everything she could to make sure I never saw them again. However, I am proud of myself that once my daughters were out of the equation, I only put up with her abuse and neglect for 6 months before I had enough.
And I am very glad that I did not have to deal with custody/child support issues. It is interesting to point out that my ExW absolutely refuses to help my daughter at all with her college expenses. Oh, and she has about $85,000 in the bank. She can have it. I got out with my health and most of my sanity.
I have a similar thinking like you. If me and my W are in the house with the kids flew the coup, I would've imagined that my W would drive me nuts. Though I probably would've stayed until when the kids are finished with college because the money that you could've saved would allowed you to retire earlier. The other week I had a chat with my in laws where one of their kids got married already and left the coup and another one graduated and got a job in another state and starting to move out. I asked them of their plans for retirement and they said that they still owed money and will pay off the house in one or 2 years. Their plans is to work until 70 and hope to get social security. Meanwhile, the husband and wife sleep in different beds and don't like each other. They have no plans to downsize and they even brought an overpriced luxury car with a big monthly payment. I tell myself I definitely don't want to be like them. For me, my plan is that the day when I get out is the day when I go for early retirement to live in another country by myself. I mean that I hope that I will be relatively healthy to do the things that I wanted to do. At least I hope that I can enjoy the prime of my years doing the things I want living the life that I want. |
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Post by timeforliving2 on Sept 6, 2018 18:53:27 GMT -5
In my opinion, without sex, you are not in a marriage, you are mere roommates. I think this mindset helps a person stay. If you don't expect sex, you don't worry about it so much. The flip side is that you stop thinking of your spouse as a sexual person. This is helpful to read so starkly explained. I think this has been the main thing that has kept me in my deal for the last 9 sexless years. I think I just stopped expecting anything to ever change and just accepted the roomate status. But yes I totally stopped thinking of my spouse as sexual. He is like a friend or even a brother. This is the thing that makes me believe more than anything else that there is no hope. As desperate as I am to have sex if he offered I do not think I could. The quality of *anyone's* life will improve when they no longer "accept" things that they shouldn't. Years ago, back when the EP site was around, I stumbled across this meme and I shared it there. I thought I'd share it again here. Have the courage to take new actions and give yourself a chance to achieve different results.
TL2
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