omixochitl
Junior Member
“They should tell you when you’re born: have a suitcase heart, be ready to travel.” ― Gabrielle Zevi
Posts: 27 
Age Range: 61-65
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Post by omixochitl on May 19, 2016 12:19:23 GMT -5
Ok, I have told my refuser that he now can sleep on the couch without my acting like it's not ok. From now on the bedroom is mine and the living room will be his. We started sleeping together in the bedroom about 3 or 4 months ago after a fairly long period of him on the couch. Gradually, he started slipping back to the living room, first by requesting Fridays as a regular night ("I'm so exhausted after the work week and I have to catch up on my sleep." "I really need to stretch my legs." etc. etc.). Then other nights started to creep back like "I can hear the neighbors with the window open". About 2 weeks ago, I tried to slip closer to him. We were babysitting his grandsons and he was on an upper step of my son in laws house . I tried to sit between his legs on the lower step for closeness and touch. He reacted angrily. I persisted (why do we do this?). The next week as the weekend approached I felt a lot of anger myself and it was like the straw that broke the camels back. I told him for about the 40th time in the 5 bad years that we have had together (out of 6 total) that I'm done. This time I think I mean it. I want to take it one day at a time. He keeps trying to reset, but I do not want this to happen. Too many resets that go south quick and I mean quick. I have no idea what to expect, except I want to be kind. I'm so sick of fighting about the "Lack". I'm hoping that eventually I can wear him down with non resistance. Maybe if I don't "fight back" he will eventually move into another bedroom ("No, I don't want that, I want to sleep with you" OH REALLY?  ). And then eventually move out? |
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Post by LITW on May 19, 2016 13:58:06 GMT -5
Wow, thats really sad. What I wouldn't give to have a lover sit between my lets, or on my lap. Every situation is (obviously) different, but here is what happened for me.
She would go though periods where she slept on the couch for weeks upon weeks despite my asking her to come to bed with me. When we were both awake, she could not seem to be bothered to look up from her kindle or her computer when I tried talking to her. Finally, about a year ago, I got tired of reaching for something that was seemingly not there, and I detached. Then she noticed that I was detached and accused me of refusing her.
Sexless Marriages are a mind game :/
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Post by unmatched on May 19, 2016 14:37:46 GMT -5
omixochitl I read your other post and we are in a similar situation. My wife and I actually agreed to split up and then she backtracked and we agreed to go through counselling together to get some clarity on whether this can work out not. We are doing Emotion Focused Therapy which seems to come from a very similar viewpoint to your therapist. The question we both had at the beginning was if we try to end this pattern of me wanting more and her feeling pressurised and backing away, how does that work if she has a load of childhood baggage that causes her not to want intimacy in the first place? The counsellor's response was basically there are no guarantees but that she has seen it work well for people in similar situations, especially combined with some individual counselling as well. I actually do trust her (the counsellor), but I can't see it happening for us and I am feeling the same disconnect that you are. The one thing I feel very confident about is that if your husband is not doing this therapy with you (and probably some of his own too) then whatever you change in your own behaviour is going to make zero difference to anything in the long term. You might get reset for a while but he would need some real insight and motivation for that to last.
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Post by worksforme2 on May 19, 2016 15:27:21 GMT -5
I can remember when I finally came kicking and screaming to the realization that my now X really didn't love me anymore. And after years of trying every trick the experts said would rekindle the relationship I finally accepted it could not be fixed. Once I had done that I made a conscious decision to disconnect from her and the marriage. It took a lot of reminding myself about the demeaning and castigating words and actions she had dumped on me over those years. But eventually I put my feelings for her in a box and locked it away. I took off my ring and stopped every action that might speak of desire or love for her. Once I had done that it was merely a formality moving to the divorce.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 17:23:01 GMT -5
Ok, I have told my refuser that he now can sleep on the couch without my acting like it's not ok. From now on the bedroom is mine and the living room will be his. We started sleeping together in the bedroom about 3 or 4 months ago after a fairly long period of him on the couch. Gradually, he started slipping back to the living room, first by requesting Fridays as a regular night ("I'm so exhausted after the work week and I have to catch up on my sleep." "I really need to stretch my legs." etc. etc.). Then other nights started to creep back like "I can hear the neighbors with the window open". About 2 weeks ago, I tried to slip closer to him. We were babysitting his grandsons and he was on an upper step of my son in laws house . I tried to sit between his legs on the lower step for closeness and touch. He reacted angrily. I persisted (why do we do this?). The next week as the weekend approached I felt a lot of anger myself and it was like the straw that broke the camels back. I told him for about the 40th time in the 5 bad years that we have had together (out of 6 total) that I'm done. This time I think I mean it. I want to take it one day at a time. He keeps trying to reset, but I do not want this to happen. Too many resets that go south quick and I mean quick. I have no idea what to expect, except I want to be kind. I'm so sick of fighting about the "Lack". I'm hoping that eventually I can wear him down with non resistance. Maybe if I don't "fight back" he will eventually move into another bedroom ("No, I don't want that, I want to sleep with you" OH REALLY? ). And then eventually move out? Good for you, wanting to take the high road. That has always been my goal as well, sort of unconsciously usually. He deserves retaliation, it's just not me, yk? So, kindness it is. It is my goal to leave with my head held high, to know that I gave my best effort and that I gave him as many chances as my heart could handle. So, my thoughts on your post are this... I think emotional detachment is where we naturally go at the end, after far too much has been said and done to try to fix things and once we have resigned ourselves to the fact that nothing is ever going to be fixed. If you are at that point with it, then the end may indeed be near. If, on the other hand, you are like me and (almost subconsciously) using these tactics to effect change, to push the envelope with him, then in my experience, it won't work. I did this for years. Kicked him out of the bedroom, begged him back, told him I had one foot out the door, made him go to counseling, told him I didn't care anymore... Except that, somewhere deep down, I really *did* care. I was saying and doing all of those things in a twisted attempt to get him to change already, to get him to come to his senses, to no avail. But it took me years of that drama to see what I was doing by "detaching." Check in with yourself. Are you detaching b/c you are truly done or is there some part of you that hopes this latest detachment will bring him back to you, ideally on hands and knees? I wanted that. For too long and outside the realm of all possibility, given a history that I couldn't see, couldn't make sense of. I hope I'm making sense. I'm trying to be helpful. I'm really sorry that he's hurting you in this way. I know that pain. And I think I am finally ready to break the cycle. |
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omixochitl
Junior Member
“They should tell you when you’re born: have a suitcase heart, be ready to travel.” ― Gabrielle Zevi
Posts: 27
Age Range: 61-65
|
Post by omixochitl on May 19, 2016 17:28:23 GMT -5
unmatched I am in this therapy alone (even tho it's called family therapy). We gave up on couples counseling about a year ago. The therapist was skilled and compassionate, but he suggested that my husband needed to go very deeply into his childhood trauma to find the reasons why he is so closed off to love. Needless to say, he didn't follow through on this suggestion. He has stayed with his old familiar therapist, seeing her monthly. He has said at times that she doesn't really help, and yet, he won't change therapists. worksforme2 , not sure that he ever loved me. Not sure he can love, really. He was skilled at faking it, initially. And saying this, he doesn't even know that he is faking it. There is so much denial. He certainly thinks he loves me. It's very sad and sadder still when I lash out at him in utter frustration. This is why I think it's essential for me to truly detach. Because I AM some kind of codependent. How else can I have stayed for 5 years, hoping for a change? And finally, @elle , I know exactly what you are saying and no I truly think it is different this time (not like the previous 40 times). I have never felt the "one day at a time" thing until THIS time.
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omixochitl
Junior Member
“They should tell you when you’re born: have a suitcase heart, be ready to travel.” ― Gabrielle Zevi
Posts: 27
Age Range: 61-65
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Post by omixochitl on May 19, 2016 19:01:27 GMT -5
I keep playing this song, my new theme
I'm goin' to a wedding
I'm going to a wedding dressed in black
I'm going to a party
Going to party, won't be back
And I'm not going with you
No
Trees are no longer a comfort
Messages sad in the wires
My hair is hung down
With the blackest of rain that I'm feeling
I'm going to the river
I'm going to the river wash my tears
I'm going to the mountains
Going to the mountains cool my fears
That I'm not going with you
No
Skies are no longer a comfort
Leaves turning black in the autumn
The corn is hung down
With the heaviest rain I am feeling
I'm going to a funeral
I'm going to a funeral dressed in white
I'm going to a nightclub
I'm going to a nightclub to sleep with night
And I'm not going with you
No
Love is no longer a comfort
Fantastic times are forgotten
My heart is hung down
With the saddest of rain that I'm feeling
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Post by greatcoastal on May 19, 2016 19:41:35 GMT -5
Detachment is something I learned in therapy. My wife announced, " yes I detached myself two years ago". This was news to me. Since we have had a SM for over 14 yrs, and there already is little communication and much avoidance due to her control issues, I saw no difference. Weeks later I found were she had downloaded a sight sent to her from her newly divorced sister about detachment. Here's what I remember, ( this was almost a year ago) that article was telling women to share the house but, do not show any emotions, be a cold hearted person for as long as it takes, and your wicked husband will come running back to you, begging for mercy. There were170 comments following it. All of them were women saying what poor innocent victims they are, and how there spouse is just pond scum! ( not at all saying that you are like that)
So after reading that I shared it with my councilor, and during our session I asked her " how is that working for you?" Her answer," total silence, avoidance". To me that says just another control issue.
Now that my eyes are open to the fact that I am getting tired of feeling dishonored, disrespected, simply because I did what seemed right. I agreed to try the things my wife wanted, I stepped aside when she said I was wrong, and said "fine you do it!"
Now I want detachment from me to her. I no longer want her to ever touch me, ( that rarely happens) I want her out of the house I avoid her, I speak to her as little as possible, there is no physical attraction,and I remind myself daily that I want my freedom and respect back that I had before marriage, and that others give me outside of my family.
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Post by JMX on May 19, 2016 19:56:02 GMT -5
@elle - damn, girl, that was spot on.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 20:01:10 GMT -5
He's not likely to change anything. Refusers like the way things are. If it comes to a divorce, get this idea of kindness out of your head. You are dissolving a legal union. This is hardass business. Hopefully you can both be civil and reasonable. But leave kindness in your sock drawer.
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Post by baza on May 19, 2016 20:07:50 GMT -5
It is a long drawn out and painful process, but the avoidant spouse eventually behaves themselves into a position of irrelevancy in your life.
It is not so much a case of you "emotionally detaching" but rather a position where there is no emotion present in the avoidant spouse for you to attach to.
You see it in story after story here (and in the old EP group) where the disenfranchised spouse attempts continually to engage / attach themselves to the avoidant spouse in word and deed only to be rebuffed.
There is nothing (or very little) to engage with or attach to in the avoidant spouse.
So at some point, the disenfranchised spouse stops their fruitless attempts to engage / attach to the avoidant spouse.
And at that point, the deal is toast.
That doesn't mean the marriage ends of course. It may stagger on for years / decades more.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 22:13:41 GMT -5
That doesn't mean the marriage ends of course. It may stagger on for years / decades more. And therein lies the rub.  |
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Post by baza on May 19, 2016 23:07:21 GMT -5
Yes elle.
And at that point, some people choose to formalise the dead status of the marriage and end it, others choose to stay in the dead environment and prolong it.
They are both legitimate choices.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 23:36:37 GMT -5
Ok, I have told my refuser that he now can sleep on the couch without my acting like it's not ok. From now on the bedroom is mine and the living room will be his. We started sleeping together in the bedroom about 3 or 4 months ago after a fairly long period of him on the couch. Gradually, he started slipping back to the living room, first by requesting Fridays as a regular night ("I'm so exhausted after the work week and I have to catch up on my sleep." "I really need to stretch my legs." etc. etc.). Then other nights started to creep back like "I can hear the neighbors with the window open". About 2 weeks ago, I tried to slip closer to him. We were babysitting his grandsons and he was on an upper step of my son in laws house . I tried to sit between his legs on the lower step for closeness and touch. He reacted angrily. I persisted (why do we do this?). The next week as the weekend approached I felt a lot of anger myself and it was like the straw that broke the camels back. I told him for about the 40th time in the 5 bad years that we have had together (out of 6 total) that I'm done. This time I think I mean it. I want to take it one day at a time. He keeps trying to reset, but I do not want this to happen. Too many resets that go south quick and I mean quick. I have no idea what to expect, except I want to be kind. I'm so sick of fighting about the "Lack". I'm hoping that eventually I can wear him down with non resistance. Maybe if I don't "fight back" he will eventually move into another bedroom ("No, I don't want that, I want to sleep with you" OH REALLY? ). And then eventually move out? Good for you, wanting to take the high road. That has always been my goal as well, sort of unconsciously usually. He deserves retaliation, it's just not me, yk? So, kindness it is. It is my goal to leave with my head held high, to know that I gave my best effort and that I gave him as many chances as my heart could handle. So, my thoughts on your post are this... I think emotional detachment is where we naturally go at the end, after far too much has been said and done to try to fix things and once we have resigned ourselves to the fact that nothing is ever going to be fixed. If you are at that point with it, then the end may indeed be near. If, on the other hand, you are like me and (almost subconsciously) using these tactics to effect change, to push the envelope with him, then in my experience, it won't work. I did this for years. Kicked him out of the bedroom, begged him back, told him I had one foot out the door, made him go to counseling, told him I didn't care anymore... Except that, somewhere deep down, I really *did* care. I was saying and doing all of those things in a twisted attempt to get him to change already, to get him to come to his senses, to no avail. But it took me years of that drama to see what I was doing by "detaching." Check in with yourself. Are you detaching b/c you are truly done or is there some part of you that hopes this latest detachment will bring him back to you, ideally on hands and knees? I wanted that. For too long and outside the realm of all possibility, given a history that I couldn't see, couldn't make sense of. I hope I'm making sense. I'm trying to be helpful. I'm really sorry that he's hurting you in this way. I know that pain. And I think I am finally ready to break the cycle. IOW, you can't just pretend to detach, as a tactic or a strategy. You have to truly detach - which means letting go of the result. |
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Post by DryCreek on May 20, 2016 0:23:43 GMT -5
That doesn't mean the marriage ends of course. It may stagger on for years / decades more. And therein lies the rub. "Zombie" marriage?... The "wed undead"?... |
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). And then eventually move out?
