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Post by unmatched on May 19, 2016 19:31:43 GMT -5
From what you wrote, I would guess she probably also feels pretty lost and helpless. So going in slowly with some tact is a kind approach, and says a lot for your sensitivity and love for your wife. So now she is aware that this is very much a 'live issue' for you again and I am sure you are both dreading the conversations you are going to have to have next. I hope your therapist can help you find a way to say what you need to say and to start some real communication with your wife as you move to the next step. Best of luck!
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 19:49:01 GMT -5
@dan I am the same. I cannot get the words, "I want a divorce," out of my mouth. The truth is I am petrified. I married him when I was 25 years old. Looking back, I was just so young and should have lived a little on my own. There's nothing I can do about the past now. My husband also sticks his head in the sand about our problems. If I did not bring our issues up, he would never. He is content to live this way. I don't understand how, but it's not for me to figure out. My own therapy has helped me immensely. I have become more aware and empowered through it. My therapist recommended a marriage counselor for us. We are going together in June. (Second time around) I have not yet mentioned to him that it will be more for mediation. It is hopefully with the help of a professional that we can both agree this marriage is over, we need to move on, and do it all as peacefully as possible for our children. This all just sucks!!!!! I am sorry for what you are going through. You have my support. Do you think he'll agree after more marriage counseling that the marriage is over? Me either. The words out of your mouth, if you mean it, have to be "I'm filing for divorce," not "I want a divorce." The latter is just an expression of you desires, which he does not have a track record of paying attention too. Of course, talk to an attorney first to time this announcement correctly. |
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Post by bballgirl on May 19, 2016 20:18:00 GMT -5
ggold - I used a session of marriage counseling as a means of mediation during the period of time after I told him that I wanted to get a divorce but before I had filed. Some words that I used to make it clear to him that I wanted a divorce were: "Being married makes me feel like I'm in prison" "I no longer want to be a wife" "I'm not in love with you anymore" "I can be your friend and co parent, I just can't be your wife" "We are not compatible" We discussed mainly the sexless loveless marriage during the counseling session. That was the biggest issue for me. My purpose for going to that session, and I had a different agenda than my ex, was to make it perfectly clear that a divorce was eminent. That if he wanted to proceed with a counselor individually it would be helpful to him. That he is in a different stage of the greiving process than me and he should seek legal advice as well. He left angry. Silent treatment for two days then back to denial until he was served.
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Post by ggold on May 19, 2016 20:42:48 GMT -5
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Post by DryCreek on May 19, 2016 21:34:26 GMT -5
Then take it out! Practice, rehearse, pretend like you are a lawyer making closing arguments to get your client off of death row. Be firm, resolute and emotionless. It's going to be so hard!!!! I have to practice. ugh A common turn of events over the years on EP... Someone would logically map out their points and rehearse their speech repeatedly to make sure they could get through it to the end. Then one day opportunity presents, the discussion turns, and the decision is announced... And the speech never gets used. But they were prepared and confident. My guidance is simple when you get to that point... You're announcing a decision, not making a request. The decision is yours; own it. The more you try to justify your decision, the more you invite counter-arguments and muddy your core message. This is a reverse scenario where "the why doesn't matter". Same goes for laying blame at their feet hoping they will emerge a better person. They won't be listening, and they won't be receptive; you're running over them with a dump truck, and they'll be reeling not feeling introspective. Save your breath. Be prepared. Be concise. Be resolute. You can't put this genie back in the bottle, so be sure you're committed first. DC |
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 22:18:22 GMT -5
I made the decision a few weeks ago to return to therapy, and have selected a new therapist after a "trial" session. (My therapist from the last decade retired.) I start again next week. Which means I had to tell my wife. Even this I have been dreading: just telling her I'm headed back to therapy. I pointed out this morning that our sex and intimacy is entirely at zero, and I have no idea how to start it again. She agreed on both points. "But we're improving on other points, right? Give us credit where credit is due," she gently nudged with an upbeat tone. Out loud I agreed: "yes, better on some points"... but inwardly added "because I'm just emotionally detaching and don't care any more." Then I mentioned I've decided to go back to therapy... then quickly added -- as if to soft-pedal the news -- "where I'll also be talking about dealing with our kids, and my fears about my ailing parents". To which she replied "OK, glad to hear it is not only about me". Why was that important for me to add? Sometimes I think she is "sticking her head in the sand" about our problems. Or maybe just not bringing them up because she has no more of a solution than I do. And, well, the same could be asked about me. Hey, I'm an engineer: I *LOVE* to work on problems. Correction: I love to work on solvable problems! And, alas, I've come to admit (to myself) that I think my marriage is "unsolvable"; I can't see a path to rebuild it to something that will satisfy me. Back to the breakfast table: within a minute or two she looked really somber. I think the message "it is serious" sunk in. Which, is probably exactly what I wanted this morning: I wanted to say "things are serious, and in all likelihood headed for worse"... without ACTUALLY having to discuss the problem with her at that moment. Why oh why am I beating around the bush so much on this (telling her in my heart of hearts I don't see a future with her)? THAT is probably the main reason I'm headed back to therapy: to figure out WHY I'm dragging my feet. Tough situation. No easy answers. But I admire anyone who will seek therapy, so good for you. Personally, I think the world would be an entirely different place if everyone sought and received *good* therapy. This reminds me of that Native American quote "When in doubt, be still and wait. When you are certain, act with courage" (or something close to that anyway). Your situation feels that way to me. (So does mine, right now.) Maybe therapy will help you to be certain and to act with courage. But if it doesn't, it's OK to be still and wait too. |
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 22:19:44 GMT -5
ggold - I used a session of marriage counseling as a means of mediation during the period of time after I told him that I wanted to get a divorce but before I had filed. Some words that I used to make it clear to him that I wanted a divorce were: "Being married makes me feel like I'm in prison" "I no longer want to be a wife" "I'm not in love with you anymore" "I can be your friend and co parent, I just can't be your wife" "We are not compatible" We discussed mainly the sexless loveless marriage during the counseling session. That was the biggest issue for me. My purpose for going to that session, and I had a different agenda than my ex, was to make it perfectly clear that a divorce was eminent. That if he wanted to proceed with a counselor individually it would be helpful to him. That he is in a different stage of the greiving process than me and he should seek legal advice as well. He left angry. Silent treatment for two days then back to denial until he was served. Beautiful, bballgirl . I may have to do it this way as well, if I ever get there that is. |
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omixochitl
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“They should tell you when you’re born: have a suitcase heart, be ready to travel.” ― Gabrielle Zevi
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Post by omixochitl on May 21, 2016 16:54:53 GMT -5
This reminds me of that Native American quote "When in doubt, be still and wait. When you are certain, act with courage" (or something close to that anyway). Your situation feels that way to me. (So does mine, right now.) Maybe therapy will help you to be certain and to act with courage. But if it doesn't, it's OK to be still and wait too. I love this, it's so apropos. Thanks again, @elle |
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 0:28:14 GMT -5
I love that poem so much I had to go and find it... Figured you guys might want to see it too.
Go Forward With Courage
When you are in doubt, be still, and wait;
when doubt no longer exists for you,
then go forward with courage.
So long as mists envelop you, be still;
be still until the sunlight pours through
and dispels the mists-- as it surely will.
Then act with courage.
White Eagle
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omixochitl
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“They should tell you when you’re born: have a suitcase heart, be ready to travel.” ― Gabrielle Zevi
Posts: 27
Age Range: 61-65
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Post by omixochitl on May 22, 2016 5:15:56 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 7:22:35 GMT -5
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Post by ggold on May 22, 2016 10:45:28 GMT -5
I love that poem so much I had to go and find it... Figured you guys might want to see it too. Go Forward With Courage When you are in doubt, be still, and wait; when doubt no longer exists for you, then go forward with courage. So long as mists envelop you, be still; be still until the sunlight pours through and dispels the mists-- as it surely will. Then act with courage. White Eagle LOVE! Am going to print! xo |
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Post by Dan on May 23, 2016 21:10:06 GMT -5
UPDATE:
First "full session" of therapy tonight.
I realized that I've been in agony approaching The Talk because I'm thinking I have to convince her -- intellectually -- that "a divorce is a good idea, given where we are". The main reason it won't work is she doesn't want a divorce. It wasn't in her plans; things aren't bad enough for that in her mind.
But what I realized is that the REASON I'm approaching it that way is -- well, it is who I am. EVERY OTHER discussion I have in my life is based on intellect. My work, discussion about politics/policy, even parenting and other household decisions are made by TALKING rationally.
I think I've been approaching it that way to sidestep the HUMONGOUS amount of selfishness I feel for wanting a life without her. If I convince her it is a good idea, then it isn't [so] selfish.
My therapist pointed out that it is not selfish to want to be happy, and it's damn tough being a martyr to some abstract ideal of "sticking with a marriage for the sake of it".
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Post by greatcoastal on May 23, 2016 21:21:58 GMT -5
Way to go Dan! Fist bump!!
Read your post again, and again, this summer.
Let me slip this in the back door. My wife, the electrical engineer sounds like you. Her approach to things. I find myself trying, trying, to relate to her thoughts through some of your posts. ( that's a compliment by the way!)
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Post by unmatched on May 24, 2016 0:57:04 GMT -5
UPDATE: First "full session" of therapy tonight. I realized that I've been in agony approaching The Talk because I'm thinking I have to convince her -- intellectually -- that "a divorce is a good idea, given where we are". The main reason it won't work is she doesn't want a divorce. It wasn't in her plans; things aren't bad enough for that in her mind. But what I realized is that the REASON I'm approaching it that way is -- well, it is who I am. EVERY OTHER discussion I have in my life is based on intellect. My work, discussion about politics/policy, even parenting and other household decisions are made by TALKING rationally. I think I've been approaching it that way to sidestep the HUMONGOUS amount of selfishness I feel for wanting a life without her. If I convince her it is a good idea, then it isn't [so] selfish. My therapist pointed out that it is not selfish to want to be happy, and it's damn tough being a martyr to some abstract ideal of "sticking with a marriage for the sake of it". In some ways you want agreement. I understand that, and I think to some extent I am in counselling with my wife because I want it to be undeniably obvious to both of us exactly where we are and what it might take for each of us to be happy. I don't think that is a bad thing if you have what is a basically OK relationship (apart from minor details like emotions/intimacy/sex). If she doesn't think things are bad enough to be considering divorce, then you are not being vocal enough about how you feel. You need to make her understand that for you they are absolutely that bad. She might not be convinced, but at least she will see where you are coming from. |
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