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Post by elynne on Mar 5, 2018 3:57:38 GMT -5
I recommend reading this book: iliasm.org/thread/787/emotional-blackmailAt the moment you still are in a 'fog' = fear obligation guilt. Caused by the way your spouse is twisting everything. And as Baz says - a dysfunctional marriage fucks with your head. My ex was also very good in making me doubt myself. This book can help you. Thanks for the book recommendation! I will read it! |
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Post by elkclan2 on Mar 5, 2018 7:22:46 GMT -5
No, not oversensitive.
If you this happened once and you knew he was super distracted and he happened to have his hands full of raw meat or something when you came up to him with the battery, then I'd say 'over-reaction'. But I bet that's not what happened and I bet that this isn't the first time he's treated you like this.
You made a little effort to be nice and he showed you that you don't matter and that your efforts don't matter - to him. You called him on it.
The correct response - as others have said and you yourself said- was "Oh, sorry I didn't mean to be, my mind was elsewhere...thanks for bringing the battery."
But this is the way my sm spouse would have reacted, or similar, and you can bet there would have been an explosion to any perceived criticism of his actions. That's how they train you to be on edge and not criticise.
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Post by WindSister on Mar 5, 2018 10:46:51 GMT -5
The more you step back from the marriage, the more you will realize how very NOT crazy you are. Or how you are NOT 'overly sensitive' and NOT "this or that." It's amazing. In a dysfunctional union, we believe lies.
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Post by elkclan2 on Mar 5, 2018 13:17:03 GMT -5
elynne I've seen a few of your other responses in other threads. This is a pretty minor incident in the big picture of all the shitty things he does. But everything he does tells me he doesn't value you. He doesn't value your kindness, your time, your financial contributions, your household contributions. This is one more signal that he doesn't value you. But you know that. When someone shows you who they are - believe them! You know that, too. I know that you're still trying to convince yourself that you're wrong. I was there. It's very, very painful to admit that you're unvalued by someone who pledged to value you. You sound like a smart cookie. A talented woman. You deserve better than this.
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Post by elynne on Mar 5, 2018 16:40:39 GMT -5
elynne I've seen a few of your other responses in other threads. This is a pretty minor incident in the big picture of all the shitty things he does. But everything he does tells me he doesn't value you. He doesn't value your kindness, your time, your financial contributions, your household contributions. This is one more signal that he doesn't value you. But you know that. When someone shows you who they are - believe them! You know that, too. I know that you're still trying to convince yourself that you're wrong. I was there. It's very, very painful to admit that you're unvalued by someone who pledged to value you. You sound like a smart cookie. A talented woman. You deserve better than this. I swing between thinking WTF?!!! And come on. Is it really so bad? Maybe I’m just overreacting. He’s only choked me once and that was 8 years ago. (said with a sort of ironic sarcasm and disbelief). I should have left then. I had a baby and a toddler, but I still had a job and could have afforded a mortgage on my own. I know I need to go. I’m working to get there. When I started this journey 9 months ago I was really really struggling. I still had feelings for him. Now when I wake up in the morning I look at him laying beside me with a sort of slightly repulsed curiosity. Who is this person laying beside me? I think you’re right. This is another flavor of a sexless marriage. I’ve suspected he avoids intimacy as an abusive technique. Just taking the silent treatment over some imagined slight to a new level. I’ve said to him, You don’t love me. I get the feeling you don’t even like me. Why in the world do you want to stay married to me? Wouldn’t it make sense to end this and give you a chance to find someone you actually enjoy spending time with? His response was if you make that commitment that you stick to it. There is no out. But give him two months and he tells me “I want you to put on a good face for the kids for Christmas. They should have a good time and we’ll get divorced right after the holidays.” Two months later I asked him have you spoken with a lawyer? His reply. “No. I thought things were going better. Why get divorced.” Double-take? What?!!! How could you expect me to know that?! It’s all so hard to follow. I feel like I spend so much energy just keeping my equilibrium in the chaos that I struggle to set a course to get out. |
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Post by bballgirl on Mar 5, 2018 16:51:37 GMT -5
elynne I've seen a few of your other responses in other threads. This is a pretty minor incident in the big picture of all the shitty things he does. But everything he does tells me he doesn't value you. He doesn't value your kindness, your time, your financial contributions, your household contributions. This is one more signal that he doesn't value you. But you know that. When someone shows you who they are - believe them! You know that, too. I know that you're still trying to convince yourself that you're wrong. I was there. It's very, very painful to admit that you're unvalued by someone who pledged to value you. You sound like a smart cookie. A talented woman. You deserve better than this. I swing between thinking WTF?!!! And come on. Is it really so bad? Maybe I’m just overreacting. He’s only choked me once and that was 8 years ago. (said with a sort of ironic sarcasm and disbelief). I should have left then. I had a baby and a toddler, but I still had a job and could have afforded a mortgage on my own. I know I need to go. I’m working to get there. When I started this journey 9 months ago I was really really struggling. I still had feelings for him. Now when I wake up in the morning I look at him laying beside me with a sort of slightly repulsed curiosity. Who is this person laying beside me? I think you’re right. This is another flavor of a sexless marriage. I’ve suspected he avoids intimacy as an abusive technique. Just taking the silent treatment over some imagined slight to a new level. I’ve said to him, You don’t love me. I get the feeling you don’t even like me. Why in the world do you want to stay married to me? Wouldn’t it make sense to end this and give you a chance to find someone you actually enjoy spending time with? His response was if you make that commitment that you stick to it. There is no out. But give him two months and he tells me “I want you to put on a good face for the kids for Christmas. They should have a good time and we’ll get divorced right after the holidays.” Two months later I asked him have you spoken with a lawyer? His reply. “No. I thought things were going better. Why get divorced.” Double-take? What?!!! How could you expect me to know that?! It’s all so hard to follow. I feel like I spend so much energy just keeping my equilibrium in the chaos that I struggle to set a course to get out. Why wait for him to see the attorney? Go for a free consult and if you want the divorce you file for it, borrow the money from family or save up for it. I know it can vary but in my state if you file for divorce then you are suing for divorce and the spouse can be sued for half of your lawyer fees. For me that was a threat I threw out to get the divorce resolved quickly. I filed in November and I was divorced 2 months later in January. |
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Post by elynne on Mar 5, 2018 17:03:42 GMT -5
I swing between thinking WTF?!!! And come on. Is it really so bad? Maybe I’m just overreacting. He’s only choked me once and that was 8 years ago. (said with a sort of ironic sarcasm and disbelief). I should have left then. I had a baby and a toddler, but I still had a job and could have afforded a mortgage on my own. I know I need to go. I’m working to get there. When I started this journey 9 months ago I was really really struggling. I still had feelings for him. Now when I wake up in the morning I look at him laying beside me with a sort of slightly repulsed curiosity. Who is this person laying beside me? I think you’re right. This is another flavor of a sexless marriage. I’ve suspected he avoids intimacy as an abusive technique. Just taking the silent treatment over some imagined slight to a new level. I’ve said to him, You don’t love me. I get the feeling you don’t even like me. Why in the world do you want to stay married to me? Wouldn’t it make sense to end this and give you a chance to find someone you actually enjoy spending time with? His response was if you make that commitment that you stick to it. There is no out. But give him two months and he tells me “I want you to put on a good face for the kids for Christmas. They should have a good time and we’ll get divorced right after the holidays.” Two months later I asked him have you spoken with a lawyer? His reply. “No. I thought things were going better. Why get divorced.” Double-take? What?!!! How could you expect me to know that?! It’s all so hard to follow. I feel like I spend so much energy just keeping my equilibrium in the chaos that I struggle to set a course to get out. Why wait for him to see the attorney? Go for a free consult and if you want the divorce you file for it, borrow the money from family or save up for it. I know it can vary but in my state if you file for divorce then you are suing for divorce and the spouse can be sued for half of your lawyer fees. For me that was a threat I threw out to get the divorce resolved quickly. I filed in November and I was divorced 2 months later in January. I’m an American citizen living overseas. I need to get my citizenship in order prior to the divorce or I have to leave the country. At this point I have a legal right to citizenship, but it takes 8 months to a year. I applied August 17, 2017. Counting the days... April if I’m lucky. I could start divorce proceedings before the citizenship but it’s a risk. If the citizenship is delayed, I have to leave the country, reapply, and wait another year. Then the question is- I’m the primary caretaker - do the kids leave the county with me? And wait a year before coming back home? But I’ve met with a lawyer - I’ll come out ok. Though being a single mom in a foreign country without any family isn’t ideal, it’s certainly better than staying in a marriage where I don’t count. |
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Post by elkclan2 on Mar 6, 2018 2:39:15 GMT -5
Elynne - please go see an immigration lawyer first - not a divorce lawyer, but an immigration lawyer. I don't know what country you're living in (Holland? Sweden? Denmark?), but I suspect that what you're saying isn't quite correct - it's a worst case scenario. YOU and YOUR CHILDREN have rights under European Law - rights to a family life.
I am also an American woman living in the UK, I have ILR - basically a green card. That's mine and being divorced doesn't affect it (I can lose it if I leave for a long period of time).
You are in an abusive relationship and special circumstances may apply. Go to a women's group, one that specialises in supporting immigrant women (their usual client list won't be like you, but they will have resources.) I just don't want the citizenship thing hanging over your head without all the facts.
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Post by elynne on Mar 6, 2018 16:38:14 GMT -5
I had a (verblijfsvergunning) green card as a knowledge immigrant when I first moved to the Netherlands. It gave me a 30% tax break, and had some other perks.
I should have applied for citizenship years ago but never really thought it was critical.
When I stopped working 6 years ago I informed immigration - had to reapply for a green card with a change of reason for residency. That was a huge amount of paperwork (like a telephone book!) €900 in fees and my green card was given because of being married to a Dutch man.
I asked these questions when I applied for my citizenship- not coming outright and saying the marriage was abusive... but the advice was if divorce was a future possibility- get the citizenship first.
There is a expedited process for abused women but I have no proof of abuse. He choked me once, hit me in the face once when I was driving. It sounds a lot worse than it was. (huh... ) Maybe that’s not true. In those moments it was pretty awful. But those were two isolated incidents in over 10 years. The rest was pretty much me not rocking the boat and him being generally condescending, critical, or giving me the silent treatment.
I guess I look at the relationship and think - it sucks. But is it abusive? He certainly doesn’t think so. I think it’s unpleasant, but think ‘real’ abusive relationships are a lot worse.
In the end, I guess it doesn’t matter whose criteria of abuse my relationship fits or doesn’t fit. I think most important is that I’m sick of it. I’d rather be alone. And here’s the big one, I’m seeing the impact that it has on the kids and it’s not positive.
My invitation for citizenship is likely here in a month or two! Oh fuck! It just occurred to my H always brings in the mail. He could “misplace” my letter if he wanted to screw with me.
I think I’ll start bringing in the mail myself.
And thank you for your concern. It really helps to get some perspective that our relationship dynamics aren’t ok.
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Mar 6, 2018 17:21:12 GMT -5
Hi elynneFWIW, I would offer that you might gain a different perspective were you to reread your posts as if you were someone else trying to size up your situation. |
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Post by choosinghappy on Mar 6, 2018 18:01:04 GMT -5
Hi elynneFWIW, I would offer that you might gain a different perspective were you to reread your posts as if you were someone else trying to size up your situation. Agreed. Try to see it all from an objective perspective: what would you tell someone else if they had written what you had? And it needs to be said that even if it was “only” 2 incidents over 10 years - that is abuse and it is never okay. Please get out of this marriage. Sexlessness is the least of your concerns. |
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Post by Caris on Mar 6, 2018 19:36:58 GMT -5
No, you are not being too sensitive. It seems you are an “agreeable” personality type, and your H is the “disagreeable” type. We need both types in the world, but they do not work well together. He was dismissive of you, and rude, and being the agreeable type you are, it hurts your good nature and feelings because as you explained, your reaction would be more pleasant and agreeable, if roles were reversed. That’s how you are, and that’s how he is. It’s like oil and water. I’m sorry.
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Post by saarinista on Mar 7, 2018 4:53:43 GMT -5
I had a (verblijfsvergunning) green card as a knowledge immigrant when I first moved to the Netherlands. It gave me a 30% tax break, and had some other perks. I should have applied for citizenship years ago but never really thought it was critical. When I stopped working 6 years ago I informed immigration - had to reapply for a green card with a change of reason for residency. That was a huge amount of paperwork (like a telephone book!) €900 in fees and my green card was given because of being married to a Dutch man. I asked these questions when I applied for my citizenship- not coming outright and saying the marriage was abusive... but the advice was if divorce was a future possibility- get the citizenship first. There is a expedited process for abused women but I have no proof of abuse. He choked me once, hit me in the face once when I was driving. It sounds a lot worse than it was. (huh... ) Maybe that’s not true. In those moments it was pretty awful. But those were two isolated incidents in over 10 years. The rest was pretty much me not rocking the boat and him being generally condescending, critical, or giving me the silent treatment. I guess I look at the relationship and think - it sucks. But is it abusive? He certainly doesn’t think so. I think it’s unpleasant, but think ‘real’ abusive relationships are a lot worse. In the end, I guess it doesn’t matter whose criteria of abuse my relationship fits or doesn’t fit. I think most important is that I’m sick of it. I’d rather be alone. And here’s the big one, I’m seeing the impact that it has on the kids and it’s not positive. My invitation for citizenship is likely here in a month or two! Oh fuck! It just occurred to my H always brings in the mail. He could “misplace” my letter if he wanted to screw with me. I think I’ll start bringing in the mail myself. And thank you for your concern. It really helps to get some perspective that our relationship dynamics aren’t ok. Definitely start bringing in the mail on your own. Even though he didn't kill or maim you, I see huge red flags because there was physical abuse, albeit relatively minor, if there is such a thing. You deserve so much better. Please see an attorney. PLEASE! You deserve better. You can't have a good life when you're walking on eggshells. Again, you deserve better, |
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Post by elynne on Mar 7, 2018 5:19:15 GMT -5
I had a (verblijfsvergunning) green card as a knowledge immigrant when I first moved to the Netherlands. It gave me a 30% tax break, and had some other perks. I should have applied for citizenship years ago but never really thought it was critical. When I stopped working 6 years ago I informed immigration - had to reapply for a green card with a change of reason for residency. That was a huge amount of paperwork (like a telephone book!) €900 in fees and my green card was given because of being married to a Dutch man. I asked these questions when I applied for my citizenship- not coming outright and saying the marriage was abusive... but the advice was if divorce was a future possibility- get the citizenship first. There is a expedited process for abused women but I have no proof of abuse. He choked me once, hit me in the face once when I was driving. It sounds a lot worse than it was. (huh... ) Maybe that’s not true. In those moments it was pretty awful. But those were two isolated incidents in over 10 years. The rest was pretty much me not rocking the boat and him being generally condescending, critical, or giving me the silent treatment. I guess I look at the relationship and think - it sucks. But is it abusive? He certainly doesn’t think so. I think it’s unpleasant, but think ‘real’ abusive relationships are a lot worse. In the end, I guess it doesn’t matter whose criteria of abuse my relationship fits or doesn’t fit. I think most important is that I’m sick of it. I’d rather be alone. And here’s the big one, I’m seeing the impact that it has on the kids and it’s not positive. My invitation for citizenship is likely here in a month or two! Oh fuck! It just occurred to my H always brings in the mail. He could “misplace” my letter if he wanted to screw with me. I think I’ll start bringing in the mail myself. And thank you for your concern. It really helps to get some perspective that our relationship dynamics aren’t ok. Definitely start bringing in the mail on your own. Even though he didn't kill or maim you, I see huge red flags because there was physical abuse, albeit relatively minor, if there is such a thing. You deserve so much better. Please see an attorney. PLEASE! You deserve better. You can't have a good life when you're walking on eggshells. Again, you deserve better, You’re spot on. The problem isn’t the minor physical abuse, it’s the atmosphere in the relationship that allowed it to occur. When I brought up the time when he had his hands on my throat, shouting and pushing me across the room (baby on my hip) - his response was “you deserved it. You defied me.” That’s a huge red flag. I had stepped between him and our toddler as he was reprimanding her. I said, “Hey. You need to calm down. You’re out of control. She didn’t do anything wrong and you don’t realize how big and scary you are.” In his eyes that justified grabbing me by the throat and growling threats into my face as he pushed me across the room. “Don’t you ever fucking defy me...” I don’t remember the rest. I was white with anger. I didn’t cower but was glowering at him- my entire body rigid as he shoved me through the kitchen until I slid into a threshold on the floor and stumbled. He let go as I caught my balance not dropping the baby. That was a bad time. We have couples therapy tonight. He refers to it under his breath as “fucking therapy”. I’m in the mood to push things in therapy - to say that our marriage misses the foundation of respect and safety. That standing up for myself over small things causes angry outbursts. That there isn’t a atmosphere conducive to repairing the dysfunction and there isn’t anything left to save. We really need to put our energy into repairing the damage we’ve done to the children by raising them in this toxic environment and I hope he’ll join in my solving the problems instead of exacerbating them. But I have to do it in Dutch - which makes me sound like a five year old. The message It sort of loses it’s power. Though I have a feeling it’ll go over like a ton of bricks. Starting the wheels in motion. |
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Post by elkclan2 on Mar 7, 2018 5:52:55 GMT -5
elynne - come to London for a day or a weekend - cheap flights from schipol. Have coffee with me or a beer. Let's chat. You need to get out. I want you to go to this website as well: 866uswomen.org/
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