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Post by wewbwb on May 17, 2016 10:58:18 GMT -5
#2 #4 #8 #9 #10
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2016 14:25:39 GMT -5
Adultery. A mans " get out of jail free card". People ask me, " do you think your wife is with someone else?" I say, ( with all honesty) wouldn't that be nice. It would sure make it easier! i have even more sympathy for others who have dealt with, adultery, drinking, gambling, physical abuse, etc.. , I wish all the time that my husband/refuser would cheat on me - or hit me! It'd be a no-brainer then. |
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Post by wewbwb on May 17, 2016 14:31:50 GMT -5
That's a rough one @elle
But I understand your point.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2016 14:44:17 GMT -5
Actually, I don't know in which kind of world you live in Chatter Fox but in my world, my advice is: Man abused? Man up and LEAVE! In my experience though, there's nothing one can say, or advice one can give, to challenge the thinking of those who have already decided that they want to continue to "live" with said abuse. It is something that I'm still trying to wrap my mind around (unsuccessfully though, still remains a huge mystery...)There's two hypotheses: 1. the situation with their partners is not as "bad" as they make it to be; 2. they must have some deep psychological trauma that makes them want to prefer to live with the pain. Don't forget the damage done to one's self-esteem by living in an abusive situation. That alone can keep you in it for much, much longer. In my case, living with a manipulator, he caused me to doubt myself - to wonder if I even remembered correctly. Because he's a liar. Let's just call it what it is. He will deny things he has done in the past - to my face, things he did to me, things he said to me. At first, and for years, I thought maybe I was just mistaken - it's true I don't have the greatest memory. He even once lied about when we had sex - it had been 6 months and he told me we'd had sex 3 months prior, he named the month and I KNEW he was lying. Kinda hard to forget when you had sex when you get it so rarely. Yes, he would even lie about that. But now, my eyes are wide open. It can take years in an abusive relationship to get to a place where you are seeing it for what it is and not just taking your partner's word for it. Honestly, for the first 10 years, I really, truly believed it was all my fault just like he told me it was. I was raised to fight fair, to be a decent person, and to apologize if you hurt someone and to always, always learn from your mistakes and do better next time. He had me convinced that I wasn't being a good wife. So, I worked like heck to be a better wife. I finally started wising up when I discovered (after several self-improvement cycles) that he was an asshole no matter what I did. It did NOT matter how thin or how blond I was, how sweet and deferential I was, how well I kept the house or how awesome I was in the kitchen (can't say the bedroom because he's libido-free). Once I figured that out, I knew he was part of the problem. Maybe he's most of the problem. My part in this is having allowed it for soooo long. And now, thanks to ILIASM forum, I hope I'm on top of it and on my way out. I've got some more time to put in (though this is shifting in my mind over the last few days and might be sooner rather than later), but I am beginning to see the light at the end of this dark, dark tunnel. And I've gone back to my natural color. PINK!! Never mess with a pinkhead - isn't that what they say??  |
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Post by RumRunner on May 17, 2016 15:00:38 GMT -5
Finally! Something that simply nailed it for me! *huge sigh of relief* I needed to stumble on this today. shrink4men.wordpress.com/2009/01/30/10-signs-your-girlfriend-or-wife-is-an-emotional-bully/comment-page-2/I am by no means trying to diminish the pain of abused women when I say this, but us men have a bit of a different struggle as the recipient of abuse. It's not worse than a woman's story. It's just different. Our struggle is that, in our society, women are "supposed" to be emotional and men are "supposed" to be able to handle it. It is hard for a man to admit to being emotionally abused and women that are the perpetrators know just where to draw the line so they can claim that they are a normal woman and we are simply weak. What starts to hapen is this odd covert and manipulative mind fuck of a game. Even self help books keep the societal wheels churning. Case in point? The book, No More Mr.Nice Guy. Ever read it? In my opinion, it simply dismisses abusive behavior towards men and places the burden of change solely on the man. Again, not to diminish women's difficulty in abusive relationships, but what I typically see is this. Woman abused? Advice is to leave. Man is abused? Advice is to man up. I think men should be given the same advice under the same circumstances. Somehow though, us men are expected to grin and bear it or feel as though we are weak and a failure as a man because we couldn't "keep her in line". I don't know about you, but I don't want a woman that needs to be reminded that it's not ok to be abusive. I feel I deserve a woman that simply treats me kind. ...because that's how I treat her. Sadly, most of us men in these emotionally abusive relationships buy into these societal double standards....me included. Finally, an article that calls out abusive women for being abusive. This shit is simply what it is ... abuse. ...and men should be able to feel justified in walking just as easily as women in the same exact situation. I know of women like this, and thank God my wife is not one of them! With her, it is just the refusal of sex and affection so #8 #9 and #10 would apply. The way my step mother-in-law treats her husband, every one of these apply! She hates me because I confront her about it and that is one woman I have no respect for whatsoever. There is never any excuse for anyone to abuse anybody. I would never tell you to "man up" and take it... I would tell you to "get out", the same as I would to a woman if she was abused. To stay in that environment damages to your emotional health and well being, life is too short to be miserable. Wishing you and anyone else who is abused like this the strength and a path forward to happier life..... |
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Post by RumRunner on May 17, 2016 15:08:57 GMT -5
Actually, I don't know in which kind of world you live in Chatter Fox but in my world, my advice is: Man abused? Man up and LEAVE! In my experience though, there's nothing one can say, or advice one can give, to challenge the thinking of those who have already decided that they want to continue to "live" with said abuse. It is something that I'm still trying to wrap my mind around (unsuccessfully though, still remains a huge mystery...)There's two hypotheses: 1. the situation with their partners is not as "bad" as they make it to be; 2. they must have some deep psychological trauma that makes them want to prefer to live with the pain. Don't forget the damage done to one's self-esteem by living in an abusive situation. That alone can keep you in it for much, much longer. In my case, living with a manipulator, he caused me to doubt myself - to wonder if I even remembered correctly. Because he's a liar. Let's just call it what it is. He will deny things he has done in the past - to my face, things he did to me, things he said to me. At first, and for years, I thought maybe I was just mistaken - it's true I don't have the greatest memory. He even once lied about when we had sex - it had been 6 months and he told me we'd had sex 3 months prior, he named the month and I KNEW he was lying. Kinda hard to forget when you had sex when you get it so rarely. Yes, he would even lie about that. But now, my eyes are wide open. It can take years in an abusive relationship to get to a place where you are seeing it for what it is and not just taking your partner's word for it. Honestly, for the first 10 years, I really, truly believed it was all my fault just like he told me it was. I was raised to fight fair, to be a decent person, and to apologize if you hurt someone and to always, always learn from your mistakes and do better next time. He had me convinced that I wasn't being a good wife. So, I worked like heck to be a better wife. I finally started wising up when I discovered (after several self-improvement cycles) that he was an asshole no matter what I did. It did NOT matter how thin or how blond I was, how sweet and deferential I was, how well I kept the house or how awesome I was in the kitchen (can't say the bedroom because he's libido-free). Once I figured that out, I knew he was part of the problem. Maybe he's most of the problem. My part in this is having allowed it for soooo long. And now, thanks to ILIASM forum, I hope I'm on top of it and on my way out. I've got some more time to put in (though this is shifting in my mind over the last few days and might be sooner rather than later), but I am beginning to see the light at the end of this dark, dark tunnel. And I've gone back to my natural color. PINK!! Never mess with a pinkhead - isn't that what they say?? Sounds like to me you are married to a narcissist. I am glad that you no longer blame yourself for his faults. You deserve so much better than that, there is no excuse for mental abuse either.... Go Pinky!!!  |
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2016 16:24:33 GMT -5
Thanks, RumRunner. Appreciate that. (Yes, narcissistic tendencies at best, NPD at worst. Probably somewhere in between. Whew, those dudes know how to mess with your head.) |
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Post by unmatched on May 17, 2016 17:49:26 GMT -5
Adultery. A mans " get out of jail free card". People ask me, " do you think your wife is with someone else?" I say, ( with all honesty) wouldn't that be nice. It would sure make it easier! i have even more sympathy for others who have dealt with, adultery, drinking, gambling, physical abuse, etc.. , I wish all the time that my husband/refuser would cheat on me - or hit me! It'd be a no-brainer then. I think if that is how you feel, then it is already almost a no-brainer. Try sitting down with a piece of paper and writing down all the reasons why you stay. Don't censor yourself and let yourself write all the stupidest fears and doubts and longings that you have. Then step back and read it to yourself. You might be quite surprised how much is in there that either you really don't believe or that is somebody you don't want to be any more. |
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Post by bballgirl on May 17, 2016 18:17:50 GMT -5
greatcoastal , I wish all the time that my husband/refuser would cheat on me - or hit me! It'd be a no-brainer then. I think if that is how you feel, then it is already almost a no-brainer. Try sitting down with a piece of paper and writing down all the reasons why you stay. Don't censor yourself and let yourself write all the stupidest fears and doubts and longings that you have. Then step back and read it to yourself. You might be quite surprised how much is in there that either you really don't believe or that is somebody you don't want to be any more. That's good advice. I journaled a lot and I realized that getting a divorce was going to only make my life better. |
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2016 19:00:28 GMT -5
Okay. So, I can see my husband checking off #s 1-7. Maybe not to the extent they are described but I would bet dollars to donuts he feels victimized. Now, he would never say, "when you do this it bothers me" because he won't talk. His inability to talk leaves me lashing out at times and I do get frustrated with the lack of help around the house. I cannot tell you how frustrating it is to try and discuss an important issue and not get a simple acknowledgement or a word about his own opinion. A lot of times, he just walks away. It's not like I begin these conversations from an adversarial view point either. I am sincere in "let's work this out" or "here's a problem, how should we fix it" and I even have gone as far to offer it up and give him time to think through it and table the discussion. I have tried every which-way. He would still say I am emotionally abusive. Stonewalling is the pits. Yes. If something I'm doing is bothering you, you need to TELL me. And tell me why. |
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2016 21:56:24 GMT -5
Stonewalling is the pits. Yes, stonewalling is terrible. My husband does it all the time and has done it for years. Pretty hard to get somewhere with someone who can't/won't even work with you. I'm sorry you have to deal with this. I don't have any answers, just commiseration. My husband once told me that I was the one who taught him to stonewall. I nearly fell off my chair. Oh really?? But, then, everything's my fault at our house. This reminds me of that book by Mira Kirshenbaum, Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to stay - her term is "off the table-itis" I think. So, if something's really that important to you and your spouse refuses to engage over it, it's a deal breaker in her eyes. I read the book probably a year ago and determined I should leave, but I'm still here. It's just not that simple. At the moment, I am waiting for my husband to do something stupid so I can pull the plug. He will, it's only a matter of time. |
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2016 21:59:06 GMT -5
That's a great idea to journal all those things. I might do that. But I am more and more ready after just being on this site for a few days. But writing it out would be helpful. A friend of mine mentioned that she had a good divorce lawyer the other day. Hmm, I think I need to have that number. |
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Post by itsjustus on May 19, 2016 13:41:18 GMT -5
No. 1) "If She doesn't get her way, there's hell to pay". ( put that on the back of my SM t-shirt!) I am going to start quoting that, anytime I hear the lame excuse, "happy wife, happy life!" Sorry it took so long. Two front and back shirt is the way I decided to go, more dramatic, but harder to print....lol.
p.s. - I made one for me as well. You know my background...trust me, I've earned it....
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Post by angryspartan on May 19, 2016 14:28:17 GMT -5
#2 for sure, #5 to a degree, and I suspect she engages in 6.
She's touched on others on the list, but not consistently for me to say they apply.
She's one that will complain about something in her life, and then complain how the remedy to the situation is causing other problems. I am the poster boy for a "no win situation."
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Post by itsjustus on May 19, 2016 14:31:16 GMT -5
Actually, I don't know in which kind of world you live in Chatter Fox but in my world, my advice is: Man abused? Man up and LEAVE! In my experience though, there's nothing one can say, or advice one can give, to challenge the thinking of those who have already decided that they want to continue to "live" with said abuse. It is something that I'm still trying to wrap my mind around (unsuccessfully though, still remains a huge mystery...)There's two hypotheses: 1. the situation with their partners is not as "bad" as they make it to be; 2. they must have some deep psychological trauma that makes them want to prefer to live with the pain. In my case, living with a manipulator, he caused me to doubt myself - to wonder if I even remembered correctly. ............ He will deny things he has done in the past - to my face, things he did to me, things he said to me. At first, and for years, I thought maybe I was just mistaken - it's true I don't have the greatest memory.
It can take years in an abusive relationship to get to a place where you are seeing it for what it is and not just taking your partner's word for it.
Honestly, for the first 10 (30) years, I really, truly believed it was all my fault just like he told me it was. I was raised to fight fair, to be a decent person, and to apologize if you hurt someone and to always, always learn from your mistakes and do better next time. He had me convinced that I wasn't being a good wife. My part in this is having allowed it for soooo long. OH WOW!!! THIS!!! GASLIGHTING!!! And destruction of self-esteem!! Being told that this was never said, that was never done, that you must be forgetting things or remembering things wrong.... All during an argument where thoughts are coming fast, words are flying, tempers are flaring, and they plant that first little seed of doubt, to which you say "Wait....what? That...what you just said. You never did that? Stop...no...please...wait....stop for a moment...what did you just say??" and you get accused of not wanting to "discuss" the real issue, but wallow in minor details of who said what or who did what...which they self-righteously ARE NOT GOING TO GET INTO!!!
You end up actually apologizing, for getting it wrong. And you walk away thinking: What the hell just happened? Am I really losing it, like they always say??? It's me. I really suck at this! Take that for a few years (decades) and zoom...there goes your self-esteem, right out the window.
My therapist for what I thought were work issues caught it. I told her I was losing it, I was scared. I was always forgetting things, especially about my marriage.... She looked over her reading glasses at me. Ding, ding, ding! It wasn't work
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