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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2018 11:41:00 GMT -5
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Post by northstarmom on Jan 29, 2018 12:40:15 GMT -5
There always have been people romancing via bs. It always has been ine’s Choice whether to engage with such people.
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Post by Dan on Jan 30, 2018 14:39:38 GMT -5
Sorry, @smartkat : this one doesn't do ANYTHING for me.
Now, I know, I'm not actually in the dating marketplace right now, and I'm sure I'll get disappointed and disillusioned if and when I feel *I* am somebody's "backup plan", or "second best", or there is just a bit too much time email replies that I'm seriously doubting that "she likes me, too... but I'm not actually sure".
But: what is the opposite of all that fumbling and dissembling? Is it "as soon as you like someone just a bit, assume you are each other's everything... 'til Official Breakup Do You Part"?
Many individual passages I get and agree with. Like: "There is nothing romantic about acting distant." OK, I agree. But the nugget of the problem, if I may suggest, is that THIS is a tricky question: how does a new maybe-couple navigate from "just met" through "kinda like each other" into the early stages of "romance"?
There's a downside to "mismatched romantic drive" early in the relationship, so I can see one or both parties acting with caution... not wanting to look the fool, or assume too much "romance" is reciprocated early on. Sure: there is the risk that being too timid or over concerned may be misperceived as "maybe not interested"... and that would be a shame.
Furthermore, it is possible that "only date one at a time" EXACERBATES the "radio silence" you hear from a new contact. Let's say you exchange intro emails with two guys -- Dreamy and Steamy -- about the same time. You decide to go out with Steamy, and after the first date is not a flop, you start ghosting Dreamy. Because, you know, you feel Dreamy doesn't want to be strung along as your "backup plan". But after a month or two, Steamy turns out to be a dud. So you drop Dreamy a line. Wait: by NOT staying in touch during your Steamy days, didn't you just commit the EXACT CRIME that the article is decrying?
The implication of the article seems to be "Hey, I have an idea: let's peg the needle on this whole serial monogamy thing. Go all in on every potential relationship." Listen, I admit that "how we date now is a bit messed up"... but is "all in, every time" really a better recipe for romantic success?
OK, set me straight: am I grossly misreading the article and/or overreacting?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2018 14:59:42 GMT -5
Dan, I think it’s mostly a good article for people who are tired of wasting their time on casual dating, brief flirtations, and things that aren’t going to work out. If you have been in a long-term relationship, and have only just gotten out, it might be good for you to do some practice dating and not anything too serious. But that gets really old after a couple of years - trust me.
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Post by Dan on Jan 30, 2018 15:11:44 GMT -5
I "get" getting tired of the time wasters.
But -- in the end -- isn't anyone in the dating pool kinda waiting until Mr/Ms Good Enough comes around? In other words: isn't everyone "not serious" until there is someone to get serious about?
Seems to me the main strategy would be "turn over a lot of rocks", "kiss a lot of toads", "fail-often, fail-fast".
The article is PERFECTLY GOOD as one woman's reflection on what she hates about wading around in the dating pool. I think the EMOTIONS are earnest and therefore "true". But I don't think it offers a vision for "this other way would be better". I guess that is what I was looking for... based in part by your rave review, and based in part because -- in advance of being in the dating pool myself -- I seem to be thinking about this very problem (how to be serious but not "falling in like too quickly") quite a bit.
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Post by Rhapsodee on Jan 30, 2018 15:15:05 GMT -5
This is a great article for a young woman in the single world. It is vital that a young single woman have a high self esteem to protect herself from the heartache of wishy-washy suitors. The rule is to never, never-ever pursue any man that does not demonstrate a true interest. I will send it to my daughter. I think her self esteem is pretty solid but it never hurts to reinforce.
If I were single and under 50, I would probably embrace it whole heartedly.
The article doesn’t and can’t apply to us, the ones in the ILIASM wasteland. Our lives get pulled in different ways. It may be weeks before we can make arrangements to be with the person that is our solace. Sometimes we have to understand and wait. Sometimes those 👍🏼’s mean the world to us. It lets us know that we are noticed, that someone looked at what we posted or wrote. It’s validation. Pathetic, but it’s still something.
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Post by Dan on Jan 30, 2018 15:25:57 GMT -5
This is a great article for a young woman in the single world. It is vital that a young single woman have a high self esteem to protect herself from the heartache of wishy-washy suitors. The rule is to never, never-ever pursue any man that does not demonstrate a true interest. : while on its face, your message is very empowering. And yet, there is a weird, ever-so-slightly-sexist undertone: must a man display is "true interest" before he knows if any feelings are reciprocated? Must the woman refrain from pursuing... as if that is not what a woman should do? I want both of our daughters and all young women -- and all women! -- to value themselves enough to find the best possible relationship. Or at least, to find Mr Quite-A-Bit-Better-Than-Just-Good-Enough. If my main proposal is: "kiss a lot of frogs", the article at least adds implicitly: "when you see a time-waster, move on". I guess I just figured out what I want to add to the article. This sentiment: "Don't give your heart -- or even your time -- to a time waster... but realize that dealing with "time-wasters" is just part of the process. Don't give up just because they exist." |
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Post by misssunnybunny on Jan 30, 2018 16:51:07 GMT -5
hmmm....I find it interesting how everyone has a slightly different perspective on the article, but all agree that we don't want to waste our time on "almost relationships." Seems we have all been dealing with almost relationships in our SMs...
I agree that dealing with folks who ghost, disappear/reappear, only want FWB when portraying they want more of a long-term relationship, and so on, lend to not wanting to deal with the minefield that is dating. I also think that both men and women are guilty of these behaviors. It has probably always been this way, but online dating has made it easier to connect, both with the good folks that we may click with right away, or those who are game-players.
The line that resonates most with me is "If I’m going to put my time and effort into you, then you better be serious about me." If someone wants to only casually date, be up front about it, that way each party can decide whether to continue or move on to someone else. Granted, we all have to casually date a bit in the beginning, see who we like and where there is chemistry, but after some time we have to figure out if a more exclusive commitment will be made, or if we continue to casually date. If we don't agree, we have to decide whether or not to continue seeing each other, and have enough self-esteem to own what we want and move on if necessary (don't settle!). Basically, be you, don't put up with crap you don't like, communicate, and continue the quest for a healthy, happy relationship.
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Post by Dan on Jan 30, 2018 17:19:54 GMT -5
The line that resonates most with me is "If I’m going to put my time and effort into you, then you better be serious about me." If someone wants to only casually date, be up front about it, that way each party can decide whether to continue or move on to someone else. I think this is key: be upfront; don't hide your intentions. Communication is key. That goes both way: the "casual dater" should admit that that is what they are seeking. The "serious dater", likewise, should disclose. The article has just a hint of scold: "if you are not seriously dating, you are not being fair/honest". Isn't it instead simply: "if you are not seriously dating, you are not what the author is looking for." If there is another subtext to the article it is this: the concept of "modern dating" -- probably in part due to the proliferation of social media -- FACILITATES the "casual dater"... because they can do so with less skin in the game. Dating (dressing up, hitting the bars, plying your friends to fix you up) used to take EFFORT. Now the casual daters are flooding the scene with "register and start swiping" simplicity. So bemoaning the fact that there is a flood of "casual daters" out there is railing against the wind. It still takes work to find "someone serious" who is a good match for you... and these dating sites probably DO make that a BIT easier than the pre-Internet days. Don't you think? |
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Post by baza on Jan 30, 2018 19:24:50 GMT -5
As a reknown dud dater back in the day, I offer this.
Be the real you, present yourself authentically, be honest.
Worked pretty well for me as a young bloke.
I was an authentic drunken irresponsible smartarse back in the day.
And that attracted exactly what you might expect...drunken irresponsible smartarse women.....(and even then, only rarely. Mostly it attracted nothing)
Lifes travails gradually knocked a few edges off me over the years and I morphed into a binge drinking reasonably responsible smartarse. That attracted similar women (uselessly, as I was by then married and helping my missus drive our deal into the ditch, a task which kept me occupied - and unavailable - for years)
Where this theory of "like attracting like" falls flat on its' arse is with Ms enna.
Apart from a hand full of shared core values, we are very very different people.
But some how, it works.
Anyway, my theory is -
Be yourself and see what you attract.
If you are not attracting much, or attracting duds, then mebbe a tweak / adjustment to what you are presenting might be in order - as long as you are not compromising your true self.
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Post by solodriver on Jan 30, 2018 22:03:36 GMT -5
The article doesn’t and can’t apply to us, the ones in the ILIASM wasteland. Our lives get pulled in different ways. It may be weeks before we can make arrangements to be with the person that is our solace. Sometimes we have to understand and wait. Sometimes those 👍🏼’s mean the world to us. It lets us know that we are noticed, that someone looked at what we posted or wrote. It’s validation. Pathetic, but it’s still something. I feel exactly the same way. I enjoy it when someone acknowledges what I post here and shares their thoughts on them. It makes my day when someone acknowledges my thoughts and feelings here. It means at least someone understands me.
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 30, 2018 22:28:48 GMT -5
hmmm....I find it interesting how everyone has a slightly different perspective on the article, but all agree that we don't want to waste our time on "almost relationships." Seems we have all been dealing with almost relationships in our SMs... I agree that dealing with folks who ghost, disappear/reappear, only want FWB when portraying they want more of a long-term relationship, and so on, lend to not wanting to deal with the minefield that is dating. I also think that both men and women are guilty of these behaviors. It has probably always been this way, but online dating has made it easier to connect, both with the good folks that we may click with right away, or those who are game-players. The line that resonates most with me is "If I’m going to put my time and effort into you, then you better be serious about me." If someone wants to only casually date, be up front about it, that way each party can decide whether to continue or move on to someone else. Granted, we all have to casually date a bit in the beginning, see who we like and where there is chemistry, but after some time we have to figure out if a more exclusive commitment will be made, or if we continue to casually date. If we don't agree, we have to decide whether or not to continue seeing each other, and have enough self-esteem to own what we want and move on if necessary (don't settle!). Basically, be you, don't put up with crap you don't like, communicate, and continue the quest for a healthy, happy relationship. For those of us who will "just be coming out of the gate" newly divorced or making the decision to outsource, I can see more of a NEED for an "almost relationship" especially if there's finally going to be that HUGE EGO BOOSTER of sex and intimacy and a mutual desire for each other. Is that a casual date? Not in my book. That's not even a practice date. Much more is going into it, part of my heart ,while the rest remains guarded. It's going to have to be. Their is going to be much personal communication as well. I know that some woman (just like men) will eat me alive. But I HAVE to be willing to suffer and learn to mend myself back, pick my self up and find much of the good that comes from such an encounter. Perhaps then, I can concentrate on being more choosy about not settling. There is still so much to happen! My attitude can be very different in a year from now. |
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Post by GeekGoddess on Jan 30, 2018 23:26:26 GMT -5
I think the article is a good reflection of where the author is and what she is feeling. I don’t necessarily agree with her vehemence, and that’s a reflection of where *I* am and what *I* feel.
I think FWB can be romantic, but I had gotten too far into my fantasy life with Loverman and that ended up with a large dose of heartbreak. It wasn’t even really his fault - he said out loud enough things that I glossed over and just plain ignored. I wanted more from him than he wanted to give.
Now with my BF, the same still holds true. I want more than he wants to give. That isn’t so much about HIM, as it is about ME. Why do I keep feeling attracted to people who want to give less than I want? Why do I keep thinking it, or they, may change & decide they DO want to give after all (because I’m so special?). It does seem like I think I’m “more unique” and I’ll somehow inspire them to be different. It’s foolish of me.
Still learning.
I’ve quit dating sites. I don’t have the self knowledge as firmly as I tho those sites require for successful usage. I’m an in-person type of girl, I guess.
I don’t want to settle, but even more so: I never want to be settled FOR. Just keep moving if that’s how you feel about me.
And yet I do believe BF is settling for me and I haven’t had the nerve to call it off. I’m chicken. And I guess that verifies I’m a hypocrite because it means HE is MY backup plan for now.
So much to think about.
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Post by WindSister on Jan 31, 2018 10:13:07 GMT -5
I can recall feeling as the article did a time or two when I was in the dating world. I get it. I also remember reading about rejection from Naked Dating and the hard cold fact that just because someone isn't into you, it doesn't make them an asshole or a bitch. And you can't fake "into you'ness." (we all know that) Some people are always looking for "the next best thing" but then, aren't we freed if they pass us up, because they would be settling if they stuck with us? When it clicks, it clicks. I mean, that's really all I can say. I met someone with whom it all just "clicks." He isn't settling. I am not settling. We are actively CHOOSING each other every day, yes, even after getting married (even more so). When I met my husband, it just all CLICKED: we talked freely, we excited each other physically and emotionally and mentally, we dropped all walls (like instantly), we didn't want anyone else. It's about finding someone who is into you, at the same time you are into them, and who wants what you want at the same time as you. It's as complex as it sounds, we all know this. But it's not impossible. Dating sites are just another way to "get out there." They aren't guaranteed to end in love. I do agree that modern ways make it more tough, though -- texting, emailing, eh... Facebook??? That's why I love, love, LOVE my husband, though. He's not into technology. We don't even have internet. Or cable. Or satellite. We are very much into real life. No video games (thank the lord), no porn on computers, no dating apps. He doesn't even know how to copy/paste a text message or take a picture of his screen. lol Yes, I love him. So, we are both a bit more old fashioned, perhaps, than most modern folks. But it works for us. I knew what I wanted, and held out for it. As did he. And here we are. So, no - don't settle for bread crumbs, wishy-washy. And, Dan-- just be yourself. If/when you get out there, just be YOU. It all works out.  |
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Post by surfergirl on Jan 31, 2018 12:22:58 GMT -5
DanThe thing you don't understand is that ghosting people is THE thing to do nowadays. You are too mature for that, and so you don't "get" what the author and the women are saying. Men come on strong and then they ghost. Like 99% of them, from my extensive experience (okay, mostly just data gathering). You would never do that, but that is THE culture now.
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