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Post by Dan on Jan 18, 2018 13:37:49 GMT -5
I'm a math and science guy. I know that even the most basic facts and figures are often not understood by the press, or represented clearly to the public. So this statement -- or at least the implication it gives -- has been "smelling fishy" to me:
Divorce rates for first marriages are X. But divorce rates from second marriages are even higher.
OK, I take that on its face as true. But the implication is "if you remarry after divorce, your chances of a successful/happy marriage are worse."
Here's where I quibble with the math and social implications:
Firstly: most children are probably born to first marriages. Then folks in failing marriages stick around until the kids are out. Second marriages may fail faster because there are no young kids.
Secondly: once a person divorces (as scary as that is), they learn "hey, I survived this". So maybe the fact that second marriage fail faster is a POSITIVE factor: they learned better to "fail fast", rather than endure the misery.
Thirdly: statistically, there may be other explanations. For example, people maybe of two kinds: a) people who will NEVER divorce, b) people who will have a divorce rate of 70%. If there is an equal proportion of both in the populations, and they all get married, then 35% of the first marriages will fail. What ever portion of the divorced folks remarry, they still have a divorce rate of 70%. So the "divorce rate of group b" DID NOT GO UP... it was for both first and second marriages the same!
OK. I open this discussion to the conjectures of the ILIASM crowd. But I would also value if anyone has pointers to any DATA about such topics!
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Post by northstarmom on Jan 18, 2018 14:00:45 GMT -5
“Second marriages may fail faster because there are no young kids.”
Or because of blended families.
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Post by WindSister on Jan 18, 2018 14:20:08 GMT -5
I question what good data is in this case? Sorry, Math Guy!  Length of time together does not signify happiness within the relationship whether it's a first or second marriage. |
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Post by WindSister on Jan 18, 2018 14:25:30 GMT -5
I love being married. I believe in marriage. I believe in the vows we took, our monogamous commitment to each other and also the spiritual side of this commitment.
"Being Married" drives my behavior in POSITIVE ways, everyday.
Here's the thing, though, would I stay in a dead marriage? NO.
So --- when do the vows/commitment/covenant stop counting/working?
AND --- if the vows/commitment/covenant can be BROKEN (even for 100% valid reasons) then... what's the point?
Hmmm.... I am married (happily) and still question that one. lol
Because if he started to committ any of the "As" - abstinence from our sex life, adultery, addiction, abuse, I would definitely be quick to choose divorce.
So marriage is conditional.
Not committing any of "A's" were part of our vows, though... so it all works together.
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Post by WindSister on Jan 18, 2018 14:30:05 GMT -5
Bottom line though a marriage will only "work" as long each participating person within the marriage are working it, too. I think a lot of second marriages that do fail fail because of drama with exes, drama with kids, getting married for shallow reasons, etc. (and yes, they may fail "faster" than first marriages because of that)? Do they fail "more"  I don't know. lol But the reading I did prior to getting married pointed to those who are happy in a second marriage are VERY HAPPY together till death do they part.... but that's same for first marriages. In our case, we learned to love better and we practice that on ourselves and each other and it works. We have no drama with exes or kids. We believe in being married, he just texted me over lunch break, "I love being your husband" --- that's something I hear often. I let him know all the time I love being his wife, too. It means something to us, we want this to work and together we do that work. (Okay, that's my two-three cents). lol |
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Post by h on Jan 18, 2018 15:40:10 GMT -5
I think the old adage applies. Numbers don't lie but you can lie with them. Analyzing the rate of divorce alone doesn't take into account the reason why these marriages ended. There are too many variables to make a reasonable assumption about it. Not to mention that some of these 2nd marriages could be made up of one divorced person and one person who is married for the first time. How would a marriage like that count?
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Post by baza on Jan 18, 2018 17:28:53 GMT -5
Divorce might be more common in second marriages because people are quicker to recognise and act upon issues of basic incompatability the 2nd time around.
Rather than "hang on no matter what" like they did in marriage #1.
Of course it may well be that people are just stupid, and learnt nothing out of marriage #1 thus condemning themselves to repeat their patterns in marriage #2 and end up in divorce #2.
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Post by northstarmom on Jan 18, 2018 17:35:17 GMT -5
I suspect that impulsive people who rush into marriage without knowing spouses or thinking about what marriage entails are likely to divorce and quickly remarry another person whom theyvideslize then are disappointed by.
I also suspect that people whose “cure” for a bad marriage is to jump into a new relationship are likely to repeat the mistakes that led to the demise of their first marriage.
People who divorce due to having addictions or similar problems are likely to carry those problems into a second marriage and then divorce.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2018 19:02:02 GMT -5
Or because of blended families. This is what I've read. I think there's good data out there on the higher failure rate of second marriages (though I don't have any sources off the top of my head). But I know I've read that it's because 2nd marriages often have complicated step-parenting situations that can cause all sorts of trouble. I know of personal stories relating to this as well. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 18, 2018 19:48:27 GMT -5
I would like to see new statistics on how many people, in the year 2017, have realized that once the kids are old enough there is no more reason to stay in the fake marriage. (some stats show a very large increase in the late 40's early 50's range) They then go on to live with another partner, duel incomes,practically remarried- minus the worthless marriage document. Part of that is to continue receiving the life long alimony check.
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Post by elkclan2 on Jan 24, 2018 5:40:56 GMT -5
I think that there are a few people who are super dysfunctional and shouldn't be married - either because they will walk away too quickly or they're batshit crazy and it's impossible to stay married to them for a whole host of possible reasons. They will have failed in their first marriage. And they will be a greater proportion of the people who marry a second time...
Anyway, I know these stats and they make sense.
Hopefully I'll be a winner, if I do get married at all... but I'm planning to move in with my boyfriend some time in 2018.
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Post by northstarmom on Jan 24, 2018 7:47:46 GMT -5
“They then go on to live with another partner, duel incomes,practically remarried- minus the worthless marriage document. Part of that is to continue receiving the life long alimony check.”
Many are like me and have no lifelong alimony check but simply have no interest in remarrying even though we love our parners.Not marrying also protects our kids’ inheritance and means that our savings won’t be drained if our partner gets seriously ill. I also like being able to leave relatively easily if the love dies.
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Post by WindSister on Jan 24, 2018 10:17:13 GMT -5
Throwing this out there because my defenses are tingling a bit.. lol.. one needn't be crazy (not even of the batshit variety of crazy) or dysfunctional to choose marriage a second time. From my perspective being fearful of "marriage" is putting fear in the wrong thing. It wasn't "marriage" that failed it was the relationship between two people - the energies they brought to the marriage.
My first marriage was nothing like anything I wanted, though, not even close. So it didn't "turn sour" like a lot of the relationships here we see. It never was great, never had a good foundation to begin with - that wasn't the fault of "marriage" - it was the fault of us for choosing to go so willy-nilly into marriage in the first place.
As a childless woman, I also get prickly at the idea that marriage is "just for kids." Daresay, that's the main reason most marriages fail anyway - people get married TO HAVE kids? Not a great reason when the kids grow up and move away and here you are... still married.
I don't know. It's not all black and white and numbers don't tell whole stories. I want to explore it more but have work to do. I just had to get it out that some people who are married are actually, genuinely happy. Second marriages too. Second weddings are actually my favorite to go to because they lack the bullshit one sees in firsts. They tend to stick to the heart of the matter and they are FUN!
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Post by greatcoastal on Jan 24, 2018 22:03:20 GMT -5
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Post by elkclan2 on Jan 25, 2018 0:51:41 GMT -5
WindSister - I wasn't saying it was crazy to marry again, just that there are people out there who ARE batshit crazy. It's no surprise that their first marriage failed - this leaves them available for a 2nd marriage - and given their batshitness was unlikely to be cured by divorce, they're likely to fail a 2nd time (and some serial wedders -3, 4, 5 times). Plenty of people fail at first marriages, I did. Like many here not because I didn't try, but because I didn't choose well. Frankly, the way things are going with my current partner, I think I'd like to get married again. But I'm not divorced yet. :-) And I'd rather spend money on sorting my housing first as I would like to spend money on the wedding if I do get married again. And yes, like Northstarmom, I need to protect some assets that I want for my son and for myself if things go badly. He brings zero capital to the partnership (he makes ok money, but his bad first marriage left him broke), so I'm happy to wait to get married til after I'm really sure and I'm in secure housing. And we need to find a fair way to do that, so that he gains equity as time goes on. WindSister - and you're right about 2nd weddings - even though I want to spend money on it should it happen, it would mostly go for the bar bill and very little for the faff. My partner and I are both tight fisted people, so the ££ would go on the celebration with our friends side of things - and given our social circles that means booze and certainly doesn't mean rubber chicken and overpriced catering. A big piss up down the rugby club with dancing to embarrass our kids.
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I don't know. lol 
