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Post by bballgirl on Dec 22, 2017 11:45:45 GMT -5
Well I know what you mean and I do have hope for certain things but those things are not dependent on another person. I hope to retire someday. I hope to take my kids to the Dali Museum this Summer. Things of that nature where I'm in control. I don't hope or depend on anyone for anything. Well bballgirl, you know I have the utmost respect for your brilliance and ability to separate treasure from the turds. Suppose man or woman Hopes to have a deep meaningful relationship. But at the moment he/she is in a miserable marriage. That person: Diligently learns Exactly what "Deep Meaningful Relationships" are made of and how they are best accomplished. Diligently works to create that in their marriage using all resources available to them. Works hard to keep their mind and body occupied at a useful and always improving vocation. Works hard to keep their body in top physical condition, health, and appearance. Works hard to improve and keep their character in top condition. If that doesn't work, they develop and execute an exit plan from the marriage caring for the welfare of their kids and even the spouse that couldn't participate in the growth necessary to achieve the model relationship. Through this exit plan they continue to learn, grow, develop, and improve themselves in Character, Mind, Spirit, Body, and even Profession. They maintain the hope that the relationship is possible. Would you agree this Hope is founded? It isn't false hope or wishful thinking? While it does depend somewhat on "Someone Else", that someone else is more likely to have the character and tools necessary to deliver on the promise of a dedicated, sober, present, and conscious relationship. This person's deliberate, conscious, activity and work is Very Likely to put them in contact with a like-minded counterpart with which they are Likely to achieve that "Deep Meaningful Relationship" they have been working toward. This can take YEARS, but the Hope can sustain them through those years and give them Courage, sustain their Determination, and spur them on to do the Hard Work necessary to get to this wonderful place where none of the bad years matter anymore. I see folks EVERYWHERE rebuilding beautiful lives with WAY less than I have, and that gives me Hope. I read the stories from folks like WindSister and they give me Hope. I know she didn't just wander around aimlessly "Wishing" for something good to happen to her (Please don't burst my bubble if you did). And I Double Know, she didn't sit around complaining about how the Universe has served her a excrement sandwich she can't do anything with. I'm thinking Hope is Fun in and of itself. I'm pretty sure it Heals and Improves Life even before the things hoped for are realized. And I know from experience that folks without Hope are dead in their tracks. Zombies. They're ruining anything and everything of value in their lives. And worse yet, they destroy the people in their lives that's willing to be dragged down by them. Hope is Good and Necessary. No? I absolutely think one can have HOPE towards having a meaningful relationship with the different components that are important to them and their spouse. WindSister is an excellent example of someone who brings HOPE for life after a SM. After my divorce I was very happy and I think the reality of it is I still loved my exH but I needed to heal and sort out my emotions. I also think that I needed to divorce him, I have no regrets and that was the right thing. I do have HOPE that my relationship can be better (he even said to me last weekend "it's going to be better this time") with exH because he is my best friend, we are sexually on the same page with each other, there is affection and intimacy but not passion but I don't want that with him. The main reason I have hope that it will be better is because I understand the expectations and I accept them. I lived with him for 25 years, there is no one that I know better. He on the other hand does not know the entire bballgirl especially sexually but that is perhaps his lose or maybe not. However I have someone that can appreciate my sexuality. So in summary I do think having HOPE is important but I'm very careful with what I hope for.
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Post by bballgirl on Dec 22, 2017 11:51:37 GMT -5
I can sure agree with that bballgirl, but here comes the rub. This is so difficult, it's hard to put in a sentence, ... I don't have the words for it ,yet.... I/we have to depend on someone else when it comes to sex and intimacy. Putting trust in someone else, giving up a portion of control and depending on receiving back, and being submissive and vulnerable, something I was too good at! So many other aspects of your life can be structured around yourself, and a relationship with a "higher power", but with sex and intimacy? Not designed that way, it now involves another person. We're social creatures. We NEED other folks. Not just for "Sex and Intimacy", but for food and spindle bearings. If we're going to do well, we should find the best people to work with us for our Food and Spindle Bearings. The likelihood of Finding those Best People is maximized by us working hard to be our best people. And again that work, planning, and executing the plan provides Hope. And Hope energizes the plan and work. I agree. ExH is working on himself. Going to doctors, he wants to lose 50 pounds, he's eating better, I'm cooking better for him. I have lost weight too. He is the best person for me to share my life with. He is my family. I HOPE after he loses all the weight that he doesn't want sex with me! Lol However I know me I'm a gamer!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2017 12:25:53 GMT -5
I absolutely think one can have HOPE towards having a meaningful relationship with the different components that are important to them and their spouse. WindSister is an excellent example of someone who brings HOPE for life after a SM. After my divorce I was very happy and I think the reality of it is I still loved my exH but I needed to heal and sort out my emotions. I also think that I needed to divorce him, I have no regrets and that was the right thing. I do have HOPE that my relationship can be better (he even said to me last weekend "it's going to be better this time") with exH because he is my best friend, we are sexually on the same page with each other, there is affection and intimacy but not passion but I don't want that with him. The main reason I have hope that it will be better is because I understand the expectations and I accept them. I lived with him for 25 years, there is no one that I know better. He on the other hand does not know the entire bballgirl especially sexually but that is perhaps his lose or maybe not. However I have someone that can appreciate my sexuality. So in summary I do think having HOPE is important but I'm very careful with what I hope for. I KNOW you're hopeful. Trust me, I see folks without hope and it's just depressing. Walking Dead. And soon Literally Dead. Your hope is reasonable. You're not "Wishing". You're working and Hoping. That's what I'm thinking about. So, did I read correctly that there is Affection and Intimacy? Is that something like Sex? At Least Passionless Sex? If that is the case, that's a Hopeful data point for a woman in a sexless marriage marriage. It seems you've woken your husband. I'm not discounting the work and stuff you had to go through, but it is hope. (Sorry if you've already been through this -- I'm not around here too often)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2017 12:30:39 GMT -5
We're social creatures. We NEED other folks. Not just for "Sex and Intimacy", but for food and spindle bearings. If we're going to do well, we should find the best people to work with us for our Food and Spindle Bearings. The likelihood of Finding those Best People is maximized by us working hard to be our best people. And again that work, planning, and executing the plan provides Hope. And Hope energizes the plan and work. I agree. ExH is working on himself. Going to doctors, he wants to lose 50 pounds, he's eating better, I'm cooking better for him. I have lost weight too. He is the best person for me to share my life with. He is my family. I HOPE after he loses all the weight that he doesn't want sex with me! Lol However I know me I'm a gamer! I'm confused. BUT bballgirl, you gave your husband Hope. Damn Girl. Don't you see? You energized him with Hope, and I'm betting it will change his life. Big Time for the better. You should be proud of yourself. Seriously. I have a few folks I'm trying to motivate, and I just haven't been able to foster any permanent or meaningful change.
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Post by bballgirl on Dec 22, 2017 13:15:08 GMT -5
I agree. ExH is working on himself. Going to doctors, he wants to lose 50 pounds, he's eating better, I'm cooking better for him. I have lost weight too. He is the best person for me to share my life with. He is my family. I HOPE after he loses all the weight that he doesn't want sex with me! Lol However I know me I'm a gamer! I'm confused. BUT bballgirl, you gave your husband Hope. Damn Girl. Don't you see? You energized him with Hope, and I'm betting it will change his life. Big Time for the better. You should be proud of yourself. Seriously. I have a few folks I'm trying to motivate, and I just haven't been able to foster any permanent or meaningful change. Thank you for saying that. I appreciate your words more than you know. He does have hope and I gave him a second chance and he gave me a second chance but not for nothing when I texted him to see if he wanted to try again I was prepared for him to say No but at the same time he would have been an idiot to say No - I was a great wife, in terms of all that I do around the house and taking care of the kids. So yes I gave him hope and I have hope but I'm probably more realistic than him. To answer your question about affection and intimacy - That does not include sex or anything sexual. It includes a kiss, a hug, a snuggle in bed, and we say "I love you".
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Post by DryCreek on Dec 22, 2017 14:37:34 GMT -5
We're social creatures. We NEED other folks. Not just for "Sex and Intimacy", but for food and spindle bearings. *Especially* for spindle bearings! ;-) In G90 we trust!
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Post by WindSister on Dec 26, 2017 12:21:33 GMT -5
I see folks EVERYWHERE rebuilding beautiful lives with WAY less than I have, and that gives me Hope. I read the stories from folks like WindSister and they give me Hope. I know she didn't just wander around aimlessly "Wishing" for something good to happen to her (Please don't burst my bubble if you did). No, I didn't. I took the hard advise of many here and took action in my life for being responsible for my own happiness. For me that meant leaving because, yes, after working on myself, from my attitude to my body and also on the spiritual side of things, nothing changed with my EXhusband. He didn't join me in a life of finding and sharing joy, which is, ultimately, my own life's quest. He had no joy, he was a dead, cold man and I couldn't live like that anymore. When a damn trip to Las Vegas isn't even FUN? Time to go in my book. So, go, I did. I am prepared to do it again if I have to, now that I find myself remarried, only it wouldn't take me as long. OR I would do what Bball is doing... hey, since we are no longer sharing the joy of sex, perhaps it's time we just be roommates and open up the relationship? If he didn't agree to that, I would definitely go. bballgirl girl, I just have to ask -- is that what your relationship is now? Open? Does your ex know you are seeing others right now? Sorry for asking, just wondering how you are making things work for yourself. Anyway, in our case, I really HOPE it doesn't come to that because I really love my husband and want THIS to be "it" for me - the man I get to grow old with. I want to be committed through the good AND the bad, but a life without joy/sex/intimacy? Nope. Won't do that to myself. As we get older, sex may change, frequency, style - but as long as we are both happy, there is hope. Right now, I have zero complaints in the sex/intimacy department. Our Christmas gifts to each other come from Sexy Santa and his twin Dirty Santa, so -- yeah, sex is not an issue right now. lol I intend a life of joy, love, intimacy and passion. These can come in many forms from romantic love to platonic to even just love for myself and for life, so I try to recognize them in all the various forms, but, yes... that's my HOPE for myself in life.
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Post by WindSister on Dec 26, 2017 12:32:01 GMT -5
Does a marriage ever recover from that? You received a lot of answers and the thread kind of went all over the place. I will just say in my case, my ex and I went TEN YEARS without sex and that was unrecoverable (for us, someone else may have different results). (I am laughing a bit as I type that because, holy shit, how does someone let themselves go TEN YEARS WITHOUT SEX??) But, I allowed it. We didn't have enough foundation, as Sham pointed out, to make a GOOD marriage. To make a THRIVING marriage. It was just... dysfunctional. Now that I am remarried? We are having conversations if we have gone 2 weeks without sex and we get it going again. I won't let myself go a month, two, a year.. more..... and if he REFUSED sex? Oh, hell no... then we open the marriage or I am gone because I think that's not a marriage at all, as others have said. I trust my husband, though, so it's kind of "easy" for me to say this... I trust him not to let us go down that road. But, on the flip, I trust myself not to settle if that's a path we ended up on. As hard as it would be, I don't think I would put up with it like I did in my previous marriage. As I get older, however, I DO recognize that "starting over" is not as fun. But I also know I can't live in depression/darkness by living a lie. I would rather be alone, living authentically, than live a lie. My hope is we don't end up there, so we do work hard at our relationship -- he is on board with the work, though. That's key.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2017 12:39:02 GMT -5
I see folks EVERYWHERE rebuilding beautiful lives with WAY less than I have, and that gives me Hope. I read the stories from folks like WindSister and they give me Hope. I know she didn't just wander around aimlessly "Wishing" for something good to happen to her (Please don't burst my bubble if you did). No, I didn't. I took the hard advise of many here and took action in my life for being responsible for my own happiness. For me that meant leaving because, yes, after working on myself, from my attitude to my body and also on the spiritual side of things, nothing changed with my EXhusband. He didn't join me in a life of finding and sharing joy, which is, ultimately, my own life's quest. He had no joy, he was a dead, cold man and I couldn't live like that anymore. The lack of joining in the growth and living as "Walking Dead" is too much, isn't it? In my case, a constant drop of high dose hatred and negativity was the cherry on top. That lead me to terminate the mess. Thanks for keeping the hope coming! I'm sure as long as you're both working on the relationship diligently, it has to keep growing. It's not dead until someone Quits. Rule #1: No Quitting! You are an inspiration.
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Post by bballgirl on Dec 26, 2017 15:26:28 GMT -5
WindSister It's not open it's don't ask don't tell. He doesn't want to know. After we got back together he never asked me if I dated, if I had sex with anyone because he doesn't want to know - typical avoidant refuser behavior. So it's the stay and cheat option that is going to work for me. I'm actually content to have sex once or twice a month with fwb and get the companionship and stability with my ex. I will not remarry him and I'm going to save a lot of money in case this doesn't work out. However if he did want to remarry it would have to be an open marriage.
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Post by WindSister on Dec 26, 2017 15:35:05 GMT -5
No, I didn't. I took the hard advise of many here and took action in my life for being responsible for my own happiness. For me that meant leaving because, yes, after working on myself, from my attitude to my body and also on the spiritual side of things, nothing changed with my EXhusband. He didn't join me in a life of finding and sharing joy, which is, ultimately, my own life's quest. He had no joy, he was a dead, cold man and I couldn't live like that anymore. The lack of joining in the growth and living as "Walking Dead" is too much, isn't it? In my case, a constant drop of high dose hatred and negativity was the cherry on top. That lead me to terminate the mess. Thanks for keeping the hope coming! I'm sure as long as you're both working on the relationship diligently, it has to keep growing. It's not dead until someone Quits. Rule #1: No Quitting! You are an inspiration. Eh, no inspiration, trust me. lol But, I love that "No quitting" - on life or love and all the stuff that make both work.
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Post by WindSister on Dec 26, 2017 15:36:56 GMT -5
WindSister It's not open it's don't ask don't tell. He doesn't want to know. After we got back together he never asked me if I dated, if I had sex with anyone because he doesn't want to know - typical avoidant refuser behavior. So it's the stay and cheat option that is going to work for me. I'm actually content to have sex once or twice a month with fwb and get the companionship and stability with my ex. I will not remarry him and I'm going to save a lot of money in case this doesn't work out. However if he did want to remarry it would have to be an open marriage. Well, Bballgirl -- I just wish you happiness. Thanks for sharing your journey with us as we all do have different paths, little details are different for each of us, there can never be one golden rule way to live. I wish you the best!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2017 19:03:44 GMT -5
The lack of joining in the growth and living as "Walking Dead" is too much, isn't it? In my case, a constant drop of high dose hatred and negativity was the cherry on top. That lead me to terminate the mess. Thanks for keeping the hope coming! I'm sure as long as you're both working on the relationship diligently, it has to keep growing. It's not dead until someone Quits. Rule #1: No Quitting! You are an inspiration. Eh, no inspiration, trust me. lol But, I love that "No quitting" - on life or love and all the stuff that make both work. In the spirit of full disclosure, and to stay on the right side of copyright laws, "No Quitting" doesn't belong to me. It's @elle 's. It's in most of what she writes here. She's a whole lot like you. Sometimes I have to check the name. Yes, you give hope, and that's the definition of "Inspiring".
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Post by WindSister on Dec 26, 2017 20:35:12 GMT -5
Eh, no inspiration, trust me. lol But, I love that "No quitting" - on life or love and all the stuff that make both work. In the spirit of full disclosure, and to stay on the right side of copyright laws, "No Quitting" doesn't belong to me. It's @elle 's. It's in most of what she writes here. She's a whole lot like you. Sometimes I have to check the name. Yes, you give hope, and that's the definition of "Inspiring". Thanks for clarifying. Lots of inspiration on these boards, that's for sure!
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Post by M2G on Dec 27, 2017 8:54:17 GMT -5
This is a great thread and thank you all - I am drawing quite a lot of inspiration from you guys. Finding out yesterday that a divorce would cost (both of us) damn near everything I decided for now I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing (working on myself) and trust that my W will continue doing the same. I give us 6 months, and if there isn't any change toward a semi-normal sex life it will be time to re-evaluate.
For now, I only worry that my W is fixated more on keeping people out of her life than letting anyone in (or in my case back in). She is a master of shutting people out. That's to be expected given all that's happened to her. Over the years she's said things that lead me to believe there was much more abuse from her adoptive father aside from the sexual assault he was guilty of when she was in her 30's. I think it may go back much farther, perhaps all the way to the beginning. Maybe, all of that stuff is starting to finally roll back up to her doorstep like a monster.
Still, even though I have a great deal of respect and empathy for her I still have my own needs to consider and the balance between all of this crap is very hard to find. Maybe it will be divorce, maybe open marriage, maybe "don't ask don't tell" - or maybe we can find our way back to a relationship that includes intimacy. Hoping for the last one but I try not to be (too) delusional.
She is still my best friend, and that's one thing I hope we can keep intact no matter what the final outcome may be.
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