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Post by greatcoastal on Dec 16, 2017 12:41:07 GMT -5
Sham’s post made me think of an older post from Dan. The W was throwing bricks at H. H picks up those bricks & builds a defensive wall around his heart, & claims to not be angry but is defending uhimself. But the wall is very hard to tear down. I replied that I thought there IS anger, it’s just hidden- as mortar. Not noticeable, much, but it’s what makes the wall so hard to tear down. Dan pointed out that the H in this story could just leave the thrown bricks. We, the refused, don’t have to pick them up or build anything with them. We could leave them where they thrown. I love building analogies. As to the OP, I don’t believe that the time period itself is what cannot be recovered from. It’s the attitudes. When I am the only one in a marriage with the willingness to change, that is what can’t be recovered from. Anger AND resentment. Yesterday I had a day chock full of both. But every day I feel a little less resentment for that cold frigid bitch who made me believe I was a worthless piece of shit. Hmmmm.... Perhaps I need to work a touch harder on resentment Good for you!! Sounds like progress! The less resentment is part of the healing, letting it go, calling it out for what it truly is and knowing how it affected you, daily, and above all FORGIVING YOURSELF! Emotions are a lot like laundry; you have to dump them out before you sort them The longest distance is from your head to your heart. I am not a product of my circumstances, i am a product of my decisions. Focus on the HOPE that is being given to you by the people around you. People who are with you as you take ground. ( take ground because there are people counting on us. It's not just about you, we all fail) Fight for your joy by getting help to recover your joy! It's okay to get help!! Have people in your life you can be honest with. Passion is a root word for compassion.
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Post by DryCreek on Dec 16, 2017 14:15:52 GMT -5
Building a strong marriage is like building a strong brick house. Great analogy.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2017 17:54:12 GMT -5
and then you'll be like me and it will be 18 years with no sex. SoloD, this is precisely what I’d like to avoid! Thanks for the heads up.
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Post by solodriver on Dec 17, 2017 3:07:31 GMT -5
and then you'll be like me and it will be 18 years with no sex. SoloD, this is precisely what I’d like to avoid! Thanks for the heads up. Elle, Barney Fife had it so right: "You gotta nip it in the bud!"
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Post by snowman12345 on Dec 17, 2017 6:09:30 GMT -5
“Hope” is the thing with feathers - BY EMILY DICKINSON “Hope” is the thing with feathers - That perches in the soul - And sings the tune without the words - And never stops - at all - And sweetest - in the Gale - is heard - And sore must be the storm - That could abash the little Bird That kept so many warm - I’ve heard it in the chillest land - And on the strangest Sea - Yet - never - in Extremity, It asked a crumb - of me. Emily Dickinson, "'Hope' is the Thing with Feathers" from The Complete Poems of Emily Dickinson, edited by Thomas H. Johnson, ed., Cambridge, Mass.: The Belknap Press of Harvard University press, Copyright © 1951, 1955, 1979, 1983 by the President and Fellows of Harvard College. Reprinted by permissions of the publishers and Trustees of Amherst College. Source: The Poems of Emily Dickinson Edited by R. W. Franklin (Harvard University Press, 1999) Related I will agree with greatcoastal ; you can not give up hope - but, you need to change what you hope for and then go out and get it. Easy to say, not so easy to do.
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Post by lwoetin on Dec 17, 2017 11:56:13 GMT -5
Does a marriage ever recover from that? I think so, if.... Does your husband love you, and how certain are you? That's the track my marriage is on.
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Post by DryCreek on Dec 17, 2017 15:04:08 GMT -5
Does a marriage ever recover from that? I think so, if.... Does your husband love you, and how certain are you? That's the track my marriage is on. And if they insist they do, but their actions say otherwise?
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Post by northstarmom on Dec 17, 2017 15:21:19 GMT -5
“And if they insist they do, but their actions say otherwise?”
Their actions demonstrate That either if they are lying or they are not capable of loving you the way you experience romantic love. They may love you as a sibling, close friend, or for the various things that you are able to do for them. But they do not love you the way you desire to be loved by a romantic partner.
You can not change them. You can accept that if you count on them for romantic love, you will never get it.
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Post by lwoetin on Dec 17, 2017 15:41:35 GMT -5
I think so, if.... Does your husband love you, and how certain are you? That's the track my marriage is on. And if they insist they do, but their actions say otherwise? I'm curious how DC would handle such a situation as well. I'm not there yet.
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Post by DryCreek on Dec 17, 2017 16:33:51 GMT -5
And if they insist they do, but their actions say otherwise? I'm curious how DC would handle such a situation as well. I'm not there yet. "Talk is cheap." I wish I had an answer, because that's where I'm stuck. If this is love, we have wildly different definitions. On paper, it's simply a matter of acknowledging that you're incompatible and moving on. In the real world, it's not so easy.
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Post by allworkandnoplay on Dec 17, 2017 23:29:21 GMT -5
Just a quick note of practicality. I have noticed that most people here contemplating divorce are not interested in "hurting" their spouse through the process. Finding the "easy" or the "fairest" way out is the way most of us would prefer to go. Given that so many places nowadays have No Fault Divorce allows for such an arrangement as long as the partner does not contest too strenuously. In my state, however, withholding sex for more than 12 months is know as "Constructive Abandonment" and is grounds for a Fault Divorce. I would wager that many spouses are aware of this, which makes reset sex all the more hurtful.
If you are now at 13 mos, it may be something to consider if your location has this rule. A little research or a meeting with a lawyer might be a good idea.
Best to you.
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Post by brian on Dec 18, 2017 6:19:20 GMT -5
Just a quick note of practicality. I have noticed that most people here contemplating divorce are not interested in "hurting" their spouse through the process. Finding the "easy" or the "fairest" way out is the way most of us would prefer to go. Given that so many places nowadays have No Fault Divorce allows for such an arrangement as long as the partner does not contest too strenuously. In my state, however, withholding sex for more than 12 months is know as "Constructive Abandonment" and is grounds for a Fault Divorce. I would wager that many spouses are aware of this, which makes reset sex all the more hurtful. If you are now at 13 mos, it may be something to consider if your location has this rule. A little research or a meeting with a lawyer might be a good idea. Best to you. In my jurisdiction, withholding sex isn’t enough for constructive abandonment, other duties also would need to be part of it. If greatcoastal wasn’t already in the process, I would think what his spouse is doing would constitute constructive abandonment. Sry to bring you into the conversation gc 😉
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Post by shamwow on Dec 18, 2017 7:18:30 GMT -5
Just a quick note of practicality. I have noticed that most people here contemplating divorce are not interested in "hurting" their spouse through the process. Finding the "easy" or the "fairest" way out is the way most of us would prefer to go. Given that so many places nowadays have No Fault Divorce allows for such an arrangement as long as the partner does not contest too strenuously. In my state, however, withholding sex for more than 12 months is know as "Constructive Abandonment" and is grounds for a Fault Divorce. I would wager that many spouses are aware of this, which makes reset sex all the more hurtful. If you are now at 13 mos, it may be something to consider if your location has this rule. A little research or a meeting with a lawyer might be a good idea. Best to you. I was at 3 years (to the day) at the moment of my divorce. I didn't want to hurt my ex wife any more than the process itself demanded. But that had to do with the fact I don't like yo hurt ANYONE unnecessarily. This and the fact we are still co-parenting children together is why I choose to be as kind as I can. At least as kind as I'd be to a stranger despite the fact she has hurt me more than any other person ever has. I don't believe that my acts of kindness during or after this process has resulted in more or fewer such acts returned to me. "No fault divorce" doesn't mean easy, simple, or pain free. But I chose to be kind. I didn't cheat on her during the marriage or try to cheat her during the divorce itself. I walked out with my head held high. That was my choice and I feel infinitely better on the other side having made it. Edit: Just one side note. She abandoned the marriage as soon as we got back from the honeymoon 20 years ago. I don't care what the legal definition of abandonment is. I was abandoned.
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Post by h on Dec 18, 2017 7:38:02 GMT -5
Just a quick note of practicality. I have noticed that most people here contemplating divorce are not interested in "hurting" their spouse through the process. Finding the "easy" or the "fairest" way out is the way most of us would prefer to go. Given that so many places nowadays have No Fault Divorce allows for such an arrangement as long as the partner does not contest too strenuously. In my state, however, withholding sex for more than 12 months is know as "Constructive Abandonment" and is grounds for a Fault Divorce. I would wager that many spouses are aware of this, which makes reset sex all the more hurtful. If you are now at 13 mos, it may be something to consider if your location has this rule. A little research or a meeting with a lawyer might be a good idea. Best to you. I was at 3 years (to the day) at the moment of my divorce. I didn't want to hurt my ex wife any more than the process itself demanded. But that had to do with the fact I don't like yo hurt ANYONE unnecessarily. This and the fact we are still co-parenting children together is why I choose to be as kind as I can. At least as kind as I'd be to a stranger despite the fact she has hurt me more than any other person ever has. I don't believe that my acts of kindness during or after this process has resulted in more or fewer such acts returned to me. "No fault divorce" doesn't mean easy, simple, or pain free. But I chose to be kind. I didn't cheat on her during the marriage or try to cheat her during the divorce itself. I walked out with my head held high. That was my choice and I feel infinitely better on the other side having made it. Edit: Just one side note. She abandoned the marriage as soon as we got back from the honeymoon 20 years ago. I don't care what the legal definition of abandonment is. I was abandoned. Even though it looks like there is a slim chance that my W is going to turn it around, I totally get that. My W abandoned our marriage as soon as we left the wedding reception. She acted like she was this physically affectionate person but the only thing she wanted was non sexual touch. Apparently since I went without before we got married, she assumed that I would be fine without after we got married. I spent 9 years abandoned before I finally snapped and started searching the internet for answers.
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Post by Apocrypha on Dec 18, 2017 11:15:30 GMT -5
The refused is now a counter-refuser and no longer feels very forgiving!! I am sick to death of forgiving. One person cannot fix a marriage alone. So. Done. It is reasonable to observe the difference between a wedding ceremony and a marriage. You can live the life of either one without having the other. Neither one of you stood on a wedding dais to take a solemn celibate vow, and yet your stated commitment to a monogamous relationship has been swapped with a vow of chastity. I doubt either one of you would have married on those terms. Marriage includes a romantic, invested, sexual relationship - and you don't have that. Can you "save" what you don't have? It's not really as complex as it seems when you are inside it. If you are into each other, then you'll find a way to have sex - even if it's difficult or risky. Presumably, you had a sexual relationship prior to marriage? The nature of the relationship you have today has less romantic investment than what you had prior to being married. If you are also now no longer interested in sex with that man, then neither of you are interested in that kind of relationship, at this point. So, if you have a stacking hierarchy of levels of investment, you have less than what you had, prior to the wedding ceremony; however, it is likely you have a more blended lifestyle in other respects. A shared bank account, shared dwellings, a shared bed, food and supplies, possibly kids and recreational plans. All of those things (as well as a sexual relationship) can also be had outside of a marital relationship, a la carte. "Forgiving" implies wrongdoing that requires forgiveness. If a lack of sex (at least within the marriage) is a result of a lack of desire for one's sexual partner, then I'm not sure that's a thing that can be controlled. While it is understandable that hurt and resentment can build, I DO think the lack of sex (on both sides) is an honest reaction to the way each of you feels. The lie, then, is on both your parts in pretending and upholding the fantasy of a marriage, in order to retain the other positive benefits you associate with marriage. And, you are both in that lie together. Neither of you have a sexual relationship with your partner. Neither of you is living a married life - as surely as if one of you had moved to Africa 13 months ago, with no definite plans to return. He doesn't desire you, and while you want sex, you don't want it with him because you know he doesn't desire you. You can't ask someone to desire you, so even if he acquiesces to sex neither of you really wants - what's it going to prove? The marriage you have is a fantasy - a memory of a fantasy you used to have. Reality is that your relationship resembles amicable ex-spouses. Maybe strive toward doing the latter really well, and it might remove some of the hurt.
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