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Post by workingonit on Oct 9, 2017 18:53:54 GMT -5
I am new to this board and pretty ecstatic to be reading all of your voices and knowing you get what I am going through!
My H of 17 years is a really great, intelligent man. We got married quickly due to outside pressure (not going into it) and sex was an issue from the beginning. I guess the summary is just that I was really passionate and wanted raw, everything-goes, soul and body intimacy and he was much more closed and insecure. He had some early experiences that lead him to have lots of self doubts about himself sexually, despite his confidence in other areas. He was willing to work on it and I thought we had such a great connection there was no reason we couldn't make this work. Well, I was vocal about what I wanted, which made him feel performance pressure. He started to get more closed instead of more open. It started with position things- he could only have sex in the missionary position with him on top, etc. He was so insecure he did not like to look at me and would cry if I gave any direction - "could you just touch here..." This was the first few months! Then I got pregnant and was horribly sick for 4 months. After the sickness passed all I wanted was sex all the time but I did not get it much.
Fast forward to a few years later. We have 2 kids, we have not had sex of anything in 2 years, we were in financial trouble and he was refusing to look for work, I was preparing to leave him. We decided to give it a serious try to save the marriage- counseling, workshops, books, articles, and my insistence that we work on making sex at least fun. He agreed and we worked really hard on everything for several years. We had sex nights marked on the calendar at least 3 times a week, we had a date night....it was better. Was it the greatest connection ever? No. But it was good and we used sex toys and we both got off and usually had a laugh and a cuddle and some beautiful making out. That lasted about 2.5 years.
Then he told me that he really never liked or wanted vaginal sex. That he is not gay but that his only fantasy is oral sex. Ok.....fine. I am game for some oral! Usually before some penetration but ok. This started a horrible cycle where he would reject any move toward sex but let me give him oral. He would then use some sex toys on me (which I could do on my own, thank you). The kissing diminished, the cuddling diminished, the fun diminished, the connection all but died. It was like he would let me service him but refused to have sex other than him laying back while I gave him oral. This got old fast. The more I pushed the more he just had a million excuses. Including, to his credit " I am just f-ed up, I just only like oral sex, I just don't need affection like you do because my life was so messed up." I basically told him I was willing to do whatever he needed in order to move forward with intimacy but there had to be some movement on his part. I stopped initiating, not wanting more rejection. This just made him more insecure.
Fast forward to today. Last month marked 8 years since I have had sex. I am 43 years old. It has been 4 years since there has been any sexual contact at all. And 2 years since we have even hugged, held hands, cuddled, kissed.
I am asking the question about hope because I am in therapy now and I feel like I am going through the motions of trying to fix this mess. However, I am starting to be honest with myself that I don't even believe it can be fixed. He does not want to do the work on himself he needs to do to be intimate. He is saying he wants to now that I am moving toward the exit but I honestly don't think I believe him. When I hope for the future it is not him that I see myself laying tangled with on a rumpled bed. It is someone who WANTs to be there with me.
So any stories of people still hoping despite the evidence in front of them? Any stories where years of SM turned around? What are your reasons to hope?
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Oct 9, 2017 20:28:23 GMT -5
Hi workingonit. Let be the first but certainly not the last to welcome you to the club that nobody wants to be a part of. :-) I am sorry you had to seek us out, but now that you are here, I am glad you found us. I hope you decide to stay awhile and find some comfort among the community. Thanks for posting your story. You are not alone in feeling what you feel. I am fairly new here myself, but if you read through the testimonials, you will see that there are folks in many states of SM. Some even making it to the other side. It is not an easy road. But that doesn't mean it has to be a lonely road. As far as I can tell, the success rates of SM are low. Some stay for the kids or the finances. Some of those who stay, outsource (discretely or not) just to keep from losing their marbles. Others ultimately get out and regret not leaving sooner. You cannot fix this yourself. You need a willing partner. And sometimes even that may not be enough if they do not desire you in the way you want to be desired. There is a phrase you will hear around these parts, "they don't want you, they want you around". This seems to apply to you. Ultimately, you will be faced with the choice: stay cheat leave Only you can decide what type of life you want to lead. But what you will find here is a rich trove of perspectives from which to inform yourself. As to your question, there is always hope. Hope is the last to go. What I find is that in staying in an SM, you eventually look for fulfillment and happiness elsewhere, in hobbies, your kids, your friends, your APs (if you choose to do that). One day you may wake up hoping for something else. All the best! |
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Post by baza on Oct 9, 2017 20:36:43 GMT -5
There's a couple of versions of *hope*.
Version #1 is where you *hope* that the sub-optimal situation you are in will change by some cosmic event without you having to make some very challenging choices.
Version #2 is where you *hope* that there is a way to exit the sub-optimal situation you are in, and that better days lay ahead, if you are prepared to make some very challenging choices.
In all my time in this group, I've not seen version #1 of hope work.
Over the same period, I've seen hundreds of cases where version #2 of hope worked.
What hoping for a cosmic event has going for it is that it doesn't require you to do anything - other than endure indefinitely - and handle each crisis on an ad-hoc basis as they come up. That has appeal to a lot of people, and so that's what people tend to do. And, it is a perfectly valid position to take.
On the other hand, exiting the sub optimal situation has nothing going for it as far as instant pay off goes. Quite the reverse. It involves additional pain in the short term and the pay off is a longer term proposition. This doesn't have much appeal to people and so people are very reluctant to take this route, even though it too is a perfectly valid position to take.
Essentially, you face a choice of short term gain (latest crisis averted) for long term pain (ongoing misery) in "hope #1".
In "hope #2", you face a choice of short term pain (ending the core problem) for long term gain (autonomy to drive your own future).
And lucky you get to choose whether you will stick with "hope version #1", or mebbe start exploring "hope version #2".
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Post by h on Oct 9, 2017 20:43:29 GMT -5
I have been married for almost a decade now. Our SM started when I was rejected on our wedding. We only had sex once on a 10 day tropical getaway honeymoon and that was out of guilt, not passion or desire. Our entire marriage since has been the same. Long periods of nothing broken up by unsatisfying rounds of guilt induced pity sex. We have had so little sex that we have no children. There have been medical issues that have complicated sex but those have not prevented oral sex. Still, she isn't interested in me at all. I am currently waiting for one last medical excuse to expire. According to her doctor, her scarring from her last surgery could take up to a year to heal. If after that, she still doesn't show any interest in me, I will have to ask her for a divorce. I have stayed for too long already. I have wasted the best years of my life and regret every day lost. I am grateful that I don't have any kids to worry about through this but also saddened by the thought that I will likely never have a family of my own. Too much time has gone by. My peak is gone and never coming back and I feel like a shell of the man I used to be.
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Post by tirefire on Oct 9, 2017 20:44:36 GMT -5
Welcome, workingonit. I wish you didn't need to be here but it sounds like you do. I do keep having little cycles of hope but whereas it used to take a few weeks for me to realize things were messed up, over time I have shortened that cycle to usually just a few seconds or minute or two. This weekend I've realized that one of my weaknesses is that I am the puppy that will just keep coming back emotionally no matter how I've been yelled at or whatever. Something in my brain keeps seeing a glimmer of hope but the glimmer just doesn't last very long very more. I guess that is really settling in. I'm a slow learner. š I don't feel like there is much long term hope with your H but I feel sorry for him like he was abused or something. Or, are you really sure deep down he isn't gay? Anyway, welcome aboard. |
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Post by workingonit on Oct 9, 2017 21:05:45 GMT -5
Welcome, workingonit . I wish you didn't need to be here but it sounds like you do. I do keep having little cycles of hope but whereas it used to take a few weeks for me to realize things were messed up, over time I have shortened that cycle to usually just a few seconds or minute or two. This weekend I've realized that one of my weaknesses is that I am the puppy that will just keep coming back emotionally no matter how I've been yelled at or whatever. Something in my brain keeps seeing a glimmer of hope but the glimmer just doesn't last very long very more. I guess that is really settling in. I'm a slow learner. š I don't feel like there is much long term hope with your H but I feel sorry for him like he was abused or something. Or, are you really sure deep down he isn't gay? Anyway, welcome aboard. Thank you. It is a sad group to be a part of but finding you all is like a lifeline. It is a lonely problem! and LOL I wish he were gay!! That would be great! He thought so too when he was younger and had a brief fling with a guy but said he could only get off imagining the guy was a woman! |
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Post by tirefire on Oct 9, 2017 21:16:23 GMT -5
h, I am worried for you, bro. I have had times where I look back and feel the same way. Problem is, looking back is the fuel for bitterness. Only one person loses from you getting caught up in bitterness and regret. Then you end up losing not only the past but part of your future. Cut your losses by finding a way to make peace with the past. You won't be able to forget it but you need a way to let it go. Therapy? Walking the entire Pacific Coast Trail alone (I know someone who did this)? A few good benders with some buddies? Whatever is your way forward, it probably includes cutting ties with Mrs. h asap. Take care my brother. PM me if you want to chat. Warning, I may just be full of crap because I'm still figuring this all out for myself.
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Post by tirefire on Oct 9, 2017 21:21:42 GMT -5
Welcome, workingonit . I wish you didn't need to be here but it sounds like you do. I do keep having little cycles of hope but whereas it used to take a few weeks for me to realize things were messed up, over time I have shortened that cycle to usually just a few seconds or minute or two. This weekend I've realized that one of my weaknesses is that I am the puppy that will just keep coming back emotionally no matter how I've been yelled at or whatever. Something in my brain keeps seeing a glimmer of hope but the glimmer just doesn't last very long very more. I guess that is really settling in. I'm a slow learner. š I don't feel like there is much long term hope with your H but I feel sorry for him like he was abused or something. Or, are you really sure deep down he isn't gay? Anyway, welcome aboard. Thank you. It is a sad group to be a part of but finding you all is like a lifeline. It is a lonely problem! and LOL I wish he were gay!! Ā That would be great! Ā He thought so too when he was younger and had a brief fling with a guy but said he could only get off imagining the guy was a woman! Ā , he is not fully straight if he was able to even entertain the idea of a fling with a dude. It seems like women sometimes have a little more grey area here (or maybe us men just fantasize that they do š) but I really don't think any straight guy could do the fling thing. Straight guys will never be recording "I kissed a guy", know what I mean? |
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Post by workingonit on Oct 9, 2017 21:26:37 GMT -5
Thank you. It is a sad group to be a part of but finding you all is like a lifeline. It is a lonely problem! and LOL I wish he were gay!! That would be great! He thought so too when he was younger and had a brief fling with a guy but said he could only get off imagining the guy was a woman! , he is not fully straight if he was able to even entertain the idea of a fling with a dude. It seems like women sometimes have a little more grey area here (or maybe us men just fantasize that they do š) but I really don't think any straight guy could do the fling thing. Straight guys will never be recording "I kissed a guy", know what I mean? Haha! I do hear you though there are pockets of places in this world where it is more ok for guys to explore and question their sexuality. It helps my ego to think that maybe he is gay and it would relieve me of the burden of making this decision but he is pretty adamant that he is not attracted to men. Point taken though, he is more gay than lots of guys! |
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Post by GeekGoddess on Oct 9, 2017 22:12:07 GMT -5
Welcome workingonit - sorry you qualify for our little community. But I know how lonely of a problem it is, and Iām sure glad you found us. I have to say: Run. Now. Get out. Itās not you, itās him! Ok - grain of salt & all, I know that with kids things are very different. When I realized that the hope I still clung to for my own future didnāt include my Hus-Bro, thatās when I knew I had to go. I have to have hope. I canāt live without it. But my hope was then pinned on divorce, freedom to command my own life choices, autonomy to sink or swim on my own. After leaving- it aināt no bed of roses. But I do not regret leaving. If anything, I may regret my own actions the last few years as my toxic man-baby slowly eroded my spirit, my already-beaten esteem, and nearly drowned my sense of self. I hope you find what you need here. And I hope you find a clear vision for what you want in life. Like bballgirl says often: find your happiness. For me, it meant divorce. For you - you get to choose. |
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Post by wom360 on Oct 9, 2017 23:49:07 GMT -5
I think the odds against hope are extremely poor in the vast majority of cases.
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Post by DryCreek on Oct 10, 2017 0:04:13 GMT -5
Welcome, workingonit. "Hope" is believing in an outcome when the facts say otherwise. And the whole "If only he were actually gay"... doesn't change the facts. Knowing why doesn't change the situation; it only provides a cover story. |
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Post by nolongerlonely on Oct 10, 2017 1:36:33 GMT -5
Welcome workingonit I'm really sorry you are here but by reading your sad story I think,just as I did, being here is a real lifeline. So to try and answer your questions. I tried in a similar way to you just as so many people here have with their own current or ex partners. I thought for many years it was fixable and in the end it affected my personal wellbeing and began to cause me to question why I even existed. I think the thing you need to grasp if only by reading current and older posts on here is that you have given and given and given and it's gotten you nowhere, well apart from that is watching your life tick past in an unhappy unfulfilled way. I think very sadly you need to get out and sooner rather than later or if that's not an option then either to make a plan for that or by at the very least prioritising your needs over everything else. I'll use an example of my own SM to explain that comment: I was in a virtual sexless marriage by marriage year 3 and then we started a family. Desire from her side completely lost the building after that and years of once weekly lifeless sex followed. I read about women who lose their urges after childbirth or pre-menopause so not wishing to be selfish I decided to wait. Nothing happened. In the end around 11 years ago I decided to stop requesting the what had become traditional once or twice monthly starfish sex session and see if anything happened. It didn't. So in about year 2 of my by then totally sexless marriage I decided to try to calmly discuss the situation. It was a waste of time. I endured nearly another decade of personal hell after that before finally finding the strength to start a divorce. Imagine my surprise to discover my now 24 year old child had discussed the sm with my wife on a bunch of occasions in fact trying to persuade her to seek counselling or help. Imagine my disgust to learn my wife had said some time ago that she didn't care about it. I have lost alot of years. Don't be me. Please. There is hope for sure - hope that you will put yourself first after years of sacrifice. Just as others have already written there are lots of ways to achieve that either by staying or going. I hope you can make good use of all the support and advice here to achieve the goal you deserve |
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Post by h on Oct 10, 2017 5:02:06 GMT -5
h , I am worried for you, bro. I have had times where I look back and feel the same way. Problem is, looking back is the fuel for bitterness. Only one person loses from you getting caught up in bitterness and regret. Then you end up losing not only the past but part of your future. Cut your losses by finding a way to make peace with the past. You won't be able to forget it but you need a way to let it go. Therapy? Walking the entire Pacific Coast Trail alone (I know someone who did this)? A few good benders with some buddies? Whatever is your way forward, it probably includes cutting ties with Mrs. h asap. Take care my brother. PM me if you want to chat. Warning, I may just be full of crap because I'm still figuring this all out for myself. No need to worry. Thanks to my discussions with members here, I am coming to terms with the fact that this will likely never change. I've opened up to some of my family about it and working on a support system for if/when this marriage finally falls apart. I've been working on financial issues in advance so I can afford to pay legal fees when the time comes. It's a slow process but I'm preparing for the exit. |
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Post by takestwototango on Oct 10, 2017 11:22:49 GMT -5
Welcome, workingonit . I wish you didn't need to be here but it sounds like you do. I do keep having little cycles of hope but whereas it used to take a few weeks for me to realize things were messed up, over time I have shortened that cycle to usually just a few seconds or minute or two. This weekend I've realized that one of my weaknesses is that I am the puppy that will just keep coming back emotionally no matter how I've been yelled at or whatever. Something in my brain keeps seeing a glimmer of hope but the glimmer just doesn't last very long very more. I guess that is really settling in. I'm a slow learner. š I don't feel like there is much long term hope with your H but I feel sorry for him like he was abused or something. Or, are you really sure deep down he isn't gay? Anyway, welcome aboard. Thank you. It is a sad group to be a part of but finding you all is like a lifeline. It is a lonely problem! and LOL I wish he were gay!! That would be great! He thought so too when he was younger and had a brief fling with a guy but said he could only get off imagining the guy was a woman! Oh my goodness, the thought of my H being gay has crossed my mind so many times!! He said when he lived in Wisconsin that he had gay male friends and would frequent the gay bars with them and his female friends. A huge red flag went up for me. But he insists he is NOT gay. My thing is, most gay men have a LOT of female friends, and he has more female friends than any other man I know. He also says he's been propositioned several times by gay men. And you know, they say a gay man can spot another one from miles away! One day we were at a gas station filling up and he purposely asked me, "Did you see that gay guy checking me out?" I was like, "what are you talking about??" And he told me again and pointed to a car pulling away. He actually wanted me to know some gay guy was checking him out. Very weird!! But what really makes me think he is gay is that he can "tell" when a gay man is hitting on him or checking him out, but when a woman is doing it, he is TOTALLY clueless. TOTALLY!! I have watched it happen and he is oblivious! |
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