|
Post by dazednconfused on Aug 25, 2017 16:49:58 GMT -5
I am new to this forum and I was encouraged to repost my introductory story here to gain more insights and to provide some updates as things progress.
I am a 58-year old man who has been married for 35 years. During the first 23 years of marriage, we made love at least 2 or 3 times per month and I was always the pursuer. Then, my wife's sexual desire totally disappeared and I found myself having sex with a "corpse". I heard this referred to as "starfish sex" on this forum. Her arms and legs limp on the bed, no eye contact... just waiting for it to be over... We were no longer "making love". Rather, she was just yielding her body to be my source of gratification. Whenever I asked why she had no desire, there was always an excuse that has changed many times over the years. For the last 10 years, there has been no sex at all and I have been masturbating. It feels like there is an unspoken understanding that my wife realizes I must be masturbating and prefers this so I don't bother her for sex any more.
We have had many discussions regarding this, some very heated. These discussions are always initiated by me but they lead nowhere. We have been to counseling twice, but neither time has helped. I am reaching the conclusion that things will never change and sadly, the comments on this forum reinforce the reality that things will not change.
Other than the lack of sex, we actually have a pretty good relationship. We raised three children who are all out of the house in houses of their own. Financially, things are pretty solid. We have good friends and I am sure that people view us as a great couple. We never fight about anything other then the lack of sex. She claims she has never had an affair and she claims she is not gay and I believe her on both counts.
How does this happen? Doesn't everyone need love and intimacy? Isn't the drive for sex greater than the drive for food and sleep?! I have been a model husband, and father. I am athletic, in excellent health and in great shape for a 58-year old. What gives?
Do I remain in a sexless marriage and accept this as my "cross to bear"? I don't believe that masturbation is an appropriate way to express one's sexuality and this is getting boring. Do I remain in a sexless marriage and cheat? This sounds inviting but could have bad consequences. Do I divorce my wife and find happiness with another woman? If I left her, the divorce would be contentious and our children, friends and relatives would likely blame me for the breakup. When I have brought up the subject of divorce, she is strongly against this and contends that we can work through our issues, but nothing ever changes.
It seems like I am trying to decide between multiple bad choices (including the choice to stay the course!) I am extremely frustrated and at a crossroads.
I keep waiting for another alternative, but the days, weeks and months continue on with no change. Please know that it really helps me to write all of this down to people that understand what I am going through! I don't expect people on this forum to provide any quick answers to my questions, but I would like to continue to engage with the people here to gain wisdom, understanding and guidance!!
Thanks for reading and listening!!!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2017 17:03:08 GMT -5
How does this happen? Doesn't everyone need love and intimacy? Isn't the drive for sex greater than the drive for food and sleep?! I have been a model husband, and father. I am athletic, in excellent health and in great shape for a 58-year old. What gives? Do I remain in a sexless marriage and accept this as my "cross to bear"? I don't believe that masturbation is an appropriate way to express one's sexuality and this is getting boring. Do I remain in a sexless marriage and cheat? This sounds inviting but could have bad consequences. Do I divorce my wife and find happiness with another woman? If I left her, the divorce would be contentious and our children, friends and relatives would likely blame me for the breakup. When I have brought up the subject of divorce, she is strongly against this and contends that we can work through our issues, but nothing ever changes. It seems like I am trying to decide between multiple bad choices (including the choice to stay the course!) I am extremely frustrated and at a crossroads. I keep waiting for another alternative, but the days, weeks and months continue on with no change. Please know that it really helps me to write all of this down to people that understand what I am going through! I don't expect people on this forum to provide any quick answers to my questions, but I would like to continue to engage with the people here to gain wisdom, understanding and guidance!! Thanks for reading and listening!!! How does this happen? It happens all the time. Some people do not care about sex nor do they care about the needs of their spouses.Doesn't everyone need love and intimacy? No, some people do not. My refuser told me on many occasions that she could go the rest of her life without sex and be perfectly happy. As for love, she wanted me to love her by doing whatever she said, making a LOT of money, getting her the house & car she wanted, and never asking her for anything. Isn't the drive for sex greater than the drive for food and sleep? For me, they are equally important. A refuser does not care about sex, but some do like to use it as a weapon to control the other spouse.I have been a model husband, and father. I am athletic, in excellent health and in great shape for a 58-year old. What gives? Your W does not care about you and those things make no difference to her. Actually, she does not love you.
MY opinion is that it is time to leave. And when you tell other people the reason, you may be surprised that so many of them will understand and support your decision. Except for your kids. They don't want to know about your sex life. And of course she says you can work through it. That is what she thinks you want to hear. Of course, she never follows through. Why should she? She knows it is an empty threat. I say you need to go see a lawyer and get the ball rolling. And I can tell you from my personal experience. There is a very good chance you will find happiness with another woman. I suggest this much more than outsourcing. I don't think you can cheat on a spouse who has already cheated you out of the most basic part of marriage: sex.
|
|
|
Post by cagedadventurer on Aug 25, 2017 17:24:19 GMT -5
10 years!! AHHHHH, I am in pain for you. Realize that if at 58 you are fit and athletic.... what about 10 years ago when it all stopped? You were just 48! This has nothing to do with age, fitness, looks or wealth. Laws in this country make it a financial train wreck to bust out and you are in that spot where she knows you will likely stay. The consequences to date have been bearable for her.... your argue, it's over and so on.
And you WILL be here in 10 more years just with more regret and incredible sadness weighing on your heart. You can tell her "I really do love you and want nothing more than your relationship to be a marriage to the end and not this state of perpetual companionship. That simply, I need the sex and reciprocating sex at that. But since it appears this cannot happen, I have to go....I have to live!" But as you will be advised here, get legal advice in order so you know the fallout, expect to give up 1/2 but no more. This is the price to get out of jail even if it is/was an unjust sentence. I live south of a large retirement Community in Florida. Those folks are living large and screwing each others brains out like there is no tomorrow - as there may not be! There is just something about the secure environment of traditional marriage that closes up spouses...both men and women you will find on this forum. BTW - most of us have some sort of exit strategy and it begins with un-tethering credit cards, utility bills, etc. A D does not have to be contentious. For that matter, just file for separation if anything at all or just leave and stay in touch but remove yourself from the "tortuous" environment. She is too close, you live together and you want to have sex. It's too cozy as it is supposed to be. So she needs to understand your need to have your own place. You may not even have to file. But don't let $ be your captor not social pressure as to who is to blame. It is your life, you shared it and she refuses to be part of it as needed.
|
|
|
Post by bballgirl on Aug 25, 2017 17:27:56 GMT -5
dazednconfusedIt sounds like your wife is asexual. She just doesn't enjoy sex or have a need for it. I believe that sexuality is an evolving and changing thing for people. I also believe that your wife will not change in regards to her sexual preferences or lack there of. I believe she loves you in her own way according to her love language instead of your love language and therefore you guys are incompatible. What you need to do is focus on yourself and figure out what you want for the rest of your life. It sounds like you guys have a pretty good life together. Maybe outsourcing is a workable solution but definitely talk to a lawyer just to figure out what a divorce would mean and look like.
|
|
|
Post by greatcoastal on Aug 25, 2017 17:35:29 GMT -5
MY opinion is that it is time to leave. And when you tell other people the reason, you may be surprised that so many of them will understand and support your decision. Except for your kids. They don't want to know about your sex life. Lets add on to that an "or". Or your adult kids are already very well aware of how their mother treated you (sexually), showed no intimacy, no compassion, and was manipulative throughout the marriage. Instead they will run to your aid! Giving you full support by saying, "yea, dad (or mom) we know. We've been wondering what took you so long". This does happen quite often. it also opens the doors for future conversations with them about "don't make the same mistake". And, "do you find yourself behaving that way as well?" Very good response flashjohn!! Thank you for being there!
|
|
|
Post by worksforme2 on Aug 25, 2017 18:03:18 GMT -5
As you are new to the forum I will advise you to continue reading the many stories and varying advice given. You may find those here whose advice or tone resonate with you read their back stories and see how they dealt or are dealing with their S/M. You echo what many (including me) often state upon first arriving here. Everything is pretty good except for the sex. Take some time to really examine your marriage. Is there any other form of intimacy there? Any kissing, hugging, cuddling or pillow talk? I bet not. Flashjohn is correct in that there are lots of people who could care less about intimacy. They are essentially asexual. My X has said on several occasions she could care less if she never had sex again. I do not think your W loves you. If she did she would not be doling out starfish sex. What you look like, how you treat her, what matters to you are of little concern to her. She may be an excellent room mate. But it highly unlikely she will ever be the W you once had. Those days are gone. The advice on seeing a lawyer is spot on. Your W is dead set against divorce, so it's almost a given she will not hold still in allowing a FWB for you. You could go outside the marriage but if you are caught the price you are likely to pay will be high. One thing you might consider doing is to stop covering for her. Let your friends and family know there is trouble in paradise and let they know why. See if she is OK with everyone knowing she is holding you prisoner in a S/M.
|
|
|
Post by GeekGoddess on Aug 25, 2017 22:48:39 GMT -5
Welcome. Sorry you qualify. On the W's input that "we can work it out" - you may find she means that you will work out your acceptance of her preference. In the observation that everything else is great - you may come to see that most topics are only "great" because you defer to her preferences in those areas. Anyway - that was my case. I thought everything was great bar the sex. But when I tried to get a preference of my own here & there, I found out that the reason other areas of life seemed ok was only because I always gave him his way. Everything that went his way were the only parts that were ok. Keep reading. I'm sorry you have this to deal with. Good luck navigating the mine field we call SM.
|
|
|
Post by dinnaken on Aug 26, 2017 2:22:47 GMT -5
Hi dazednconfused Thank you for posting your story; I was struck by the many similarities with my own. When I joined this forum in January I was 58 (and I called it 'corpse sex' as well) and the pattern of my marriage was much like yours. You ask why this situation happens - that's a question you'll never find an answer to so stop looking, you have better things to do with your time. Accept that if your wife loves you, she does so in her own way and that way is incompatible with your needs. I would say that your options are to put up with the state of your marriage until one of you dies or you leave and live the remainder of your life as you want to not according to whatever script your wife has in her head. Read as much as you can in order to understand the situation so that you can make the best informed choice. Best wishes p.s. I was 58 when I asked my wife for a separation. That happened amicably nine weeks ago. I am very content.
|
|
|
Post by McRoomMate on Aug 26, 2017 3:56:28 GMT -5
dazednconfused As for the Cause? It sounds like low libido then got worse when Menopause hit. Woman can actually in some cases have a shrinking vagina and zero libido after menopause. But whatever the cause, the situation sounds dire. I am going to go out on a limb and bet that no amount of therapy/threats/coaxing/manipulations will ever get her to have a healthy libido and passionate lovemaking with you. Nevermore nevermore. Is the current situation (Starfish Sex, masterbation, or no sex until "death do you part") acceptable? Remainng options. 1. Cheat 2. Leave You are definitely not alone here and in the right place. Welcome.
|
|
|
Post by h on Aug 26, 2017 5:05:47 GMT -5
If you decide to divorce, you can prevent the blame from friends and family (to some extent) by preparing them ahead of time. Tell people about the situation before bringing up divorce. Don't hide behind the facade of "happy couple" any longer. Bring her cruel and heartless behavior out into the light for everyone to see. Then if/when divorce happens, it will be received with more understanding.
I have already started telling some of my family members about our nearly celibate marriage and that divorce has been on my mind. They were shocked but supportive. They never saw past the fake happy couple act. Now I know that I will have support if the marriage ends.
|
|
|
Post by dinnaken on Aug 26, 2017 6:25:43 GMT -5
I took a different tack to h when it came to talking to my friends and family. I am not saying what I did was better - it worked for me and my family, that's all. In January, after my wife and I had spoken to our child, I told my family and a couple of close friend that my wife and I were to separate. We didn't tell them the real reason(s). We told them what we had told our child - 'mum and dad are separating because we have grown apart...' the usual anodyne story. Most people just accept this, they're not stupid, they know that there is more to the story than that, but they also know that it's not really any of their business. My wife and I were grown-ups making grown-up choices. Personally, I think that the children shouldn't learn from a third party anything that they haven't been told first by their parents. I also told them that there was to be NO taking sides. This was my personal choice and I think that in our situation it helped keep things amicable up to and beyond the separation. Some people will take sides, that's inevitable but F**K 'em - they're not your friends. Your real friends will ask how you are and let you know that they'll be there for you if you ask for help. Keep those people close, they are more precious that diamonds. I do agree with h about the loss of the 'happy couple' facade. I am so happy that that has gone. That is one of the best things about my separation, I now live honestly without pretence and that is such a relief.
|
|
|
Post by baza on Aug 27, 2017 5:29:08 GMT -5
dazednconfused - you say that - "It seems like I am trying to decide between multiple bad choices (including the choice to stay the course!)" That is a totally accurate summation of the choices in front of you. Whereas staying is a legitimate choice, as is cheating, and as is divorcing, none of them is *easy* or *good*. Indeed, it usually comes down to which choice you regard as "the least worst". The 3 choices have their upsides, and their downsides. This group might be able to help in recounting our experiences in these 3 choices for you to take under advisement, but the onus of the choosing part of the deal falls entirely on you.
|
|
|
Post by dazednconfused on Aug 27, 2017 11:25:15 GMT -5
First, I have mucho RESPECT and GRATITUDE to all of you for responding and offering your sincere thoughts and advice!! It really helps to share my situation with people who can relate and care. Bballgirl suggested that our "love languages" may no longer be compatible ... this is something that our last therapist indicated and a pastor at our church even gave us the Love Languages book several years ago. I did not pay too much attention to the concept of love languages before, but maybe the universe is trying to tell me something! I have taken the book off the shelf and read through it again. If my wife is unable or unwilling to speak my love language, we will still be at the same crossroads, however, this may provide a context for a productive conversation between us. I may bring this up to her again today and see where that leads.
Thanks bballgirl for bringing this back to my attention!
I will respond again in a day or two and let you know how things are.
|
|
|
Post by McRoomMate on Aug 28, 2017 0:56:01 GMT -5
If you decide to divorce, you can prevent the blame from friends and family (to some extent) by preparing them ahead of time. Tell people about the situation before bringing up divorce. Don't hide behind the facade of "happy couple" any longer. Bring her cruel and heartless behavior out into the light for everyone to see. Then if/when divorce happens, it will be received with more understanding. I have already started telling some of my family members about our nearly celibate marriage and that divorce has been on my mind. They were shocked but supportive. They never saw past the fake happy couple act. Now I know that I will have support if the marriage ends. "fake happy couple act" - oh did we look so good on family photos. And yes, when I told family and trusted friends, we were having sex once every 6 months to 18 months over a period of years . . . Instant sympathy and understanding from most. And a noticeable minority of friends (in their 40s and older) who admitted their marriage was just as sexless too and one or two that were not bothered by being sexless (1 one was quite comfortable and but his wife very frustrated).
|
|
|
Post by h on Aug 28, 2017 4:30:33 GMT -5
If you decide to divorce, you can prevent the blame from friends and family (to some extent) by preparing them ahead of time. Tell people about the situation before bringing up divorce. Don't hide behind the facade of "happy couple" any longer. Bring her cruel and heartless behavior out into the light for everyone to see. Then if/when divorce happens, it will be received with more understanding. I have already started telling some of my family members about our nearly celibate marriage and that divorce has been on my mind. They were shocked but supportive. They never saw past the fake happy couple act. Now I know that I will have support if the marriage ends. "fake happy couple act" - oh did we look so good on family photos. And yes, when I told family and trusted friends, we were having sex once every 6 months to 18 months over a period of years . . . Instant sympathy and understanding from most. And a noticeable minority of friends (in their 40s and older) who admitted their marriage was just as sexless too and one or two that were not bothered by being sexless (1 one was quite comfortable and but his wife very frustrated). It turned out to be easier than I thought. The topic came up on its own and I went with it. My younger sister just had her first child and a few family members asked when I was going to start. My response was: "You're old enough to know how babies are made, right? Well there aren't any baby making activities going on in our household." That started the conversation about how our marriage has been a joke of near celibacy for the entire duration of it. The hardest part is waiting for the opportunity to arrive naturally. It's not really something you can just blurt out without a context. Once the initial topic is out, the conversation goes much easier. The biggest shock and sympathy came when I tell how she turned me down on our wedding night and only gave me one round of pity/guilt sex on our ten day long honeymoon.
|
|