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Post by McRoomMate on Aug 18, 2017 21:20:43 GMT -5
Oh I had a very stable wealthy wife and Happy kids
Sex on average every 6 to 9 months for years I outsourced to deal with it and figured this was my destiny
Then WAM BOOM. Fell madly in love and moved out within months
Fear? Oh hell yes. Being part time Dad. Major reduction in life style / financial stability
How do deal with it?
Staying as cool as I can Budgeting (I am on vacation now staying at my parents and pinching pennies for example) Staying fit (triathlons half marathons etc) Doing my best to be a man of my word Support network of friends and family Cultivating religious /spiritual / noble virtues Much more awareness and ownership of my decisions and actions Telling my children I love them every chance I get Proving it to them (easier said than done)
Is freedom just another word for nothing left to lose?
I wl say Hell no and go with an old rocket scientist magician who said FREEDOM is a two edged sword with responsibility on the other edge
Action/ perseverance/being clever and what tix bits of wisdom I have gathered that is the core God willing that is driving me now
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2017 22:55:35 GMT -5
She is very goal-oriented so once she sets her cap on something then she works on it tirelessly. Sometimes it feels like discontentment to me but she says it isn't. I'm sure my unhappiness does weigh on our relationship sometimes although she attributes it to middle-aged man grumpiness. I would say it's more of the sexlessness breeds resentment, which has moderated in the last five years but I'm not the shields-down, open partner that I was many years ago. I think almost everyone on this forum understands that part. Like many refusing partners, she is really uncomfortable talking about intimacy or feelings so there are no deep discussions to be had and she is strongly averse to counseling, or used to be--I haven't suggested it in a decade or more. Maybe I should. I have not done counseling for myself, not necessarily because i'm against it but because I think I know myself awfully well. That, of course, may or may not be true. How did counseling help you? What did you learn that you didn't know before about you and/or your relationship? I never considered counseling as getting to know myself, although I suppose some people use it for that. For me, it was more about healing my past as well as dealing with my marriage (which was difficult and draining for many years), developing an exit strategy, and working towards the hard decision to leave (I'm just starting year 4 of a 4-year exit plan). Through my counselor, I was able to work out that I was holding up my end of the bargain, but that my H was not participating as half of the team. He has never been willing to work at our marriage. He refuses counseling, all books on marriage or relationships, and recently refused to even discuss the relationship. My counselor helped me realize that things will not change with him. If I stay, all compromise and sacrifice will be from my side. Once I realized that and got a whole lot more physically and spiritually healthy (and strong), I was able to make the decision that I want something different for the second half of my life. I hope I don't lose my courage over the next year. This marriage has not been healthy for me and I am ready to move on.
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Post by h on Aug 19, 2017 5:02:46 GMT -5
That's what I was afraid someone would say. It would take years for me to reach that point as our relationship is safe, stable, etc. I'm in a similar situation. Safe, stable, and unsatisfying. The failed affair on my part lit a fire under her. She's trying, but it's still far less frequent than I want, and pretty uninspiring, and this is as good as it's going to get. Similar here except that it wasn't an affair but the simple threat of divorce that lit the fire under my W. She has been trying more often than in previous years but it's not even close to what I need and barely a step up from starfish. This year so far, we've had more sex than in the last 3 years combined but it still only adds up to 2-3 times a month. I need 2-3 times a week just to be adequately satisfied physically and more than that if she expects to make up for the years of neglect that I still resent her for.
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endthegame
Junior Member
Posts: 96
Age Range: 46-50
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Post by endthegame on Aug 19, 2017 6:06:46 GMT -5
Maybe 10 years ago I posted my first ever post on the old ILIASM. It was called something like 'The Last Straw'. In it I asked the very same question as you.
In hindsight, I realise I was searching for affirmation. I wanted people to say "Well, if she does this, (or that), then it's fine to leave". I was asking for my own personal forgiveness, I wanted to know I could leave with a sense of righteousness, reduce the guilt, I needed to be sure I tried everything. I wanted people to be able to say to me "Well of course it was right to leave if she did THAT!" I wanted her to understand, me to understand, my children and family and everybody to understand. Of course, nobody really gives a shit other than your kids.
To answer your question, I didn't see the last straw when it came and went. I was expecting an event, an act of such terrible and earth shattering significance I had no choice but to leave. Of course, this never happened. It was the drip, drip, drip of her combined acts and words adding up over time. The lack of a kind smile, the belittlement of me doing a kind act, the refusal to acknowledge I have emotional needs. Each act, words, or lack of... added to my understanding. When apart for a length of time for work I felt more comfortable without her. I felt less alone when alone.
Alongside this was my internal voice, logging the drip, drip, drip. Over time I realised I meant nothing to her other than sperm bank and cash cow. I saw the truth of my situation. I disengaged. Again, over time the disengagement morphed into me regaining my old self, my true self. I regained friends, activities, made new friends and found new hobbies. I reached a tipping point of realisation through being independent. Through being in control. I missed all of this at the time. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
By the time she realised she had lost me (in a bank/caretaker/childminder way - there was never true love) and she made a half-arsed effort to hoover me back in using manipulation and FOG tactics it was too late. Through the whole decade of uncoupling there was never a last straw I recognised. All I knew was that at some point I knew I could not do another day living in such loneliness. That's when I knew I would leave – and I have not a clue when that was.
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Post by baza on Aug 19, 2017 7:00:26 GMT -5
There's a lot in what Brother endthegame says. It is pretty unlikely in an ILIASM shithole that some new / additional catastrophic event is going to happen to provide *the pivotal moment* that provides you with the impetus to get out and the justification to get out. Rather, it will be the constant drip..drip..drip..drip Brother etg refers to. How long that process will take is widely variant between individuals, and will range from *tomorrow* to *never*. The *pivotal moment* - that got you googling 'sexless marriage' - has actually been and gone and you've already had the drip..drip..drip. There is very little likelyhood of a fresh dealbreaker event to rouse you into action. But what there is, is the drip..drip..drip continuing. The chinese water torture. The death by 1,000 cuts.
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Post by ironhamster on Aug 19, 2017 12:28:31 GMT -5
I'm in a similar situation. Safe, stable, and unsatisfying. The failed affair on my part lit a fire under her. She's trying, but it's still far less frequent than I want, and pretty uninspiring, and this is as good as it's going to get. Similar here except that it wasn't an affair but the simple threat of divorce that lit the fire under my W. She has been trying more often than in previous years but it's not even close to what I need and barely a step up from starfish. This year so far, we've had more sex than in the last 3 years combined but it still only adds up to 2-3 times a month. I need 2-3 times a week just to be adequately satisfied physically and more than that if she expects to make up for the years of neglect that I still resent her for. Dittos. 2-3 times a week does not make up for the years of neglect. I have laid down demands, including "something every day", but three times a week would suffice. With the fire under her ass, it's once a week, and I describe the interaction as, "better than nothing."
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Post by baza on Aug 19, 2017 19:54:00 GMT -5
The thing in these situations is, that the maximum concession you are prepared to make becomes the minimum expectation your spouse has.
Using the above as an example - You *say* - "I need something every day" - and you don't get it. So you revise that to you'll settle for "2/3 times a week". - and you don't get it. So you revise that to - "once a week".
You've conceded your opening position "every day" to "once a week"
Next, your avoidant spouse pushes the envelope a bit further and moves it out to "once a fortnight". Then, "once a month" Then "once every three months"
Chances are, that you will concede these alterations and move your position from "something every day" to "once every 3 months".
And, as there were no consequences (apart from you getting a bit pissy) as "every day" became "2/3 times a week" which became "once a fortnight" which became "once a month", then it seems that the next progression will be "once every 3 months" turning to "once every 6 months" and so on.
At some point, you have to draw your real and genuine line in the sand, and defend it.
Addendum - actually, you don't "have" to do that. It is a choice. So is just drawing new lines in the sand as you retreat.
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Post by greatcoastal on Aug 19, 2017 21:29:39 GMT -5
^^^^ I picked up on that too. Only in my mind, The words manipulative controller where there.
Back to setting boundaries, and learning to love self. It takes two to compromise. That means striking a fair balance. Not caving, quiting, giving in. Say goodbye to any hope for respect too. (personal testimony).
It's like that old saying, " you shoot for the stars and you miss it, well you land on the moon. You shoot for the top of the cow pasture fence and you miss it, well.... you know what you land in!!!
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Post by greatcoastal on Aug 19, 2017 21:38:48 GMT -5
Mine was a re-set weekend after 3 1/2 years of nothing ( and only once a year for 10 yrs before that). It was set up by our therapist for "saving the marriage" instead it turned out to be a weekend full of final straws! It certainly shined a spotlight on things!
I will say that shortly after so many demoralizing words and actions came finding out that my W had already seen an attorney. That too ended up being very helpful for me as a "final straw".
Nothing is a final straw anymore. It's now considered as "confirmation" that I am making the best decision, by taking action for the whole family, and myself.
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Post by bballgirl on Aug 20, 2017 5:21:22 GMT -5
Last straw was he was getting verbally abusive too. He would say I disgust him. I thought - "I could never say that to someone that I love, like or dislike". I realized he doesn't love me the way I should be loved. The way I deserved to be loved. He also forgot my bday. The next month I looked for an attorney.
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Post by nolongerlonely on Aug 20, 2017 6:42:56 GMT -5
It was all over for me at the timing of the first aggressive, alcohol fuelled argument in 1996, about moving house. I had provided two homes by that stage and complete stability, allowed her to give up working 2 years before we started our family, and done my level best to make our lives a happy one. But nothing ever seemed enough, and we were already virtually in an SM. I tried searching the internet, it was fairly basic in those days, and I learned that women lost drive sometimes after childbirth, so I decided to be patient, and hope the attraction and desire might return. I was already under the spell of control in those days. But I didnt even mind. But then one day, completely by surprise, one evening after drinking quite a bit of wine, she announced her desire to move home. Well, we lived in a delightful cottage in a sweet village and had lovely neighbours. The house was easily big enough and if anyone needed more space it was me, because of my obsession with cars. But I was ok with it, they all lived at work. And I had let the hobby go anyway, so rarely did anything much with them. The discussion turned very quickly into a full blown argument, she smashed her wine glass onto the table and announced that unless I sold the house and bought another, she would divorce me. She even threatened to kill the dog. And then stormed out of the house into the night. It scared me. I thought that perhaps I was the one at fault over all this. But as I re-analysed it all, I knew I was not the one with the problem. She returned home several hours later, and nothing was said. I knew that day I had reached the end. But our child was only 4. And my business so busy, I knew I would never get custody. And I had employed her brother as well, my sole staff member. He was a control freak of equal standing to her. So if he wasnt pushing me around at work, she was pushing me around at home. I didnt know it, but I think I was already a lost soul. So, 21 years thrown away. I sold two very precious possessions to facilitate the move. And we moved to a home in 1997 I never thought I would achieve in a lifetime. I spent fortunes restoring the place. And then in 2002, the same event took place, the need to relocate to a different part of the country, because she liked it there. And another divorce threat. We were virtually sexless by then. I thought very long and hard about separation then. I didnt want to relocate, but daughter only 9. I decided to go with it, perhaps things would get better. I ploughed all the money from the sale of my business property into a dream home. A real dream home. And moved the business there. I was even on my own a few months here due to the logistics. I knew then, I was happier here on my own than in her presence. Every day was a trial, another potential confrontation. I absorbed myself in work, right across the yard from the house, and in the restoration. I started a second business hoping she would be involved, but there was no interest, so I ended up with two to run instead. Life became very lonely. But I got to take my little girl to school every day and collect her in the afternoon. So I could enjoy her more than at the previous place, where I only took her twice a week and rarely could get away to pick her up. I wondered whether I would ever get out. Then in 2008, I overheard a conversation between wife and daughter about relationships and sex. The wife was telling our 15 year old that she should never accept a relationship which failed to satisfy her physically. I couldnt believe my ears. And so attempted to discuss it the following day. As usual, a vicious attack in response from my wife. She told me I was un-attractive, not sexually stimulating, didnt possess the power of touch. She said in her own words. You are not sexual. She then told me to go and find it elsewhere. I spiralled into a complete loss of self confidence. And I did outsource. But it was meaningless, there was no connection. I might as well have paid for it. I endured dreadful guilt about what I had done, and then afterwards, became even more lonely. Confrontations between wife and daughter were regular, they always had been. I had become some kind of referee. I didnt know what to do. I tried to speak to a close friend, who told me, its easy, just leave. Relationships fail he said. But it wasnt as easy as that. I had no confidence in myself any more. Then one day, in 2009, an enormous argument between wife and daughter one evening when I was having dinner with friends. I received a phone call from my daughter who was sobbing about what had happened. I left the dinner table and went straight home. And it was a war zone. I picked up the pieces and asked immediately for divorce. I had never felt so disgusted with myself for allowing something like this to happen. And the following day, wife got on her horse, and announced she was going to ride him into oncoming traffic. I talked her down and she promised to see the doctor. So, once again the tables were turned onto her. I agreed to stay, and work towards the future. We were at this point, totally sexless. We rarely ever hugged, and if we kissed, then on the cheek at christmas. I had lost my opportunity to follow through, and once again everything was on her terms. During that year, 2009, I lost interest completely in my business. I couldnt be bothered any more. I decided to take up a hobby I hadnt done since before we met. And so I absorbed myself in that. I knew it was a temporary fix, but initially it worked. I was told by the wife that I was an idiot, I would look ridiculous, be competing against people half my age, etc etc. But I ignored her, and did it anyway. I imagined in my dreams that she wouldnt show any interest, and perhaps this would be my escape. How stupid. She came along too, and soon began to take everything over. Within two years she was telling me what to do and when to do it. I didnt even enjoy that either. And then, one day, about 4 years ago, she said she wanted to move home. What, from this dream place I spent 5 years restoring and used every penny of my savings to achieve ? The place we solemnly promised we would never leave ? The place that in itself had stopped me following through with separation on many occasions ? Yes, that one. So I explained all of that, and was told no, it was time to move. And then the divorce threat came. I actually laughed. And said yes, lets. And as fast as the threat came, it disappeared. But I lost my chance. Again. I became quite ill. I got shingles from stress. And then again a year later. I tried to plan my own demise on a few nights when lying awake. But didnt have the courage to do that either. Another 2 years passed. And finally one night, after another discussion between wife and daughter about a friend of daughters in a sexless relationship, I broke down into tears in front of daughter and asked for a divorce. Little did I know that she knew I was in an SM. I had no idea. And apparently she disagreed with it. I was asked to continue the discussion the following day. I should have refused. I was offered joint counselling, and another attempt to rebuild the relationship. I knew it would be a fail, as I was way passed wanting to separate anyway. But I accepted it. But it wasnt delivered upon. Not a bit of it. All hollow promises. So it took me another 2 years to build up to doing it all over again. And this time I followed it up by doing it. I couldnt care about selling the home anymore. I couldnt care if she gets half. I should have done this years ago. I've lived in a passionless wasteland for over 21 years. It was pretty dreadful before that. I tell friends, and they say sorry. I say no, please dont say sorry, this is the best thing I have done in years.
I'm not good at answering questions am I ? Lol. What was the last straw, thats the topic isnt it. Sorry. Well it was the wedding night. She didnt want me then. I found it really weird that I had just pledged everything to someone who didnt even want me on the night of our wedding. That was the last straw. It just took me 28 years to sort it out.
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