|
|
Post by baza on Aug 3, 2017 19:20:39 GMT -5
You've achieved firing "the warning shot" Sister @mrslowmaintenence - and well done for that (particularly in not being drawn into making threats you can't deliver on)
I think it would now be very smart to see a lawyer, start knocking your exit strategy into do-able shape, shore up your support network, and research everything you can find about helping your kid transition through a divorce situation.
All on a theoretical basis at this point, given that you do not, yet, know how the counselling is going to go.
The reasoning behind this suggestion is, so you are prepared for a scenario where the counselling does not deliver what you want, thus putting you in a position where you have to up the ante further, and you have to play the BIG card.
I hope it doesn't come to that for you, but I think you need to plan for that as being a pretty likely outcome.
|
|
|
|
Post by lifeinwoodinville on Aug 3, 2017 20:45:45 GMT -5
I seriously doubt that you are boiling the whole relationship down to just sex. If he said or implied that you are he was just cranking up the guilt. You went to counseling once to deal with other issues, right? So you’ve proven in actions that it is not “just” about sex to you. Sex is not sufficient but it is necessary and there is nothing selfish about insisting on it. Actually it is rather selfless of you to stay there expending your energy attempting to drag his recalcitrant butt into a functional marriage so you don't have to inconvenience him with a divorce. Bonus points to you for the use of the word "recalcitrant", I don't hear that one too often. |
|
|
|
Post by lwoetin on Aug 3, 2017 20:53:28 GMT -5
Well... Update! I did it, I know, yay me (can I go vomit a little now) Looks like I now get to find somewhere for a toddler to be so I can schedule a counselling appointment. No doctor, yet. He was quite upset, and shocked. He feels that he has been putting in a lot of effort, and while I agree wholeheartedly that things have improved as far as frequency and communication, I still have zero passion coming from him. He was upset that I had boiled our entire relationship down to just sex. I can explain until the cows come home how sex isn't just a release, but he just does not have that relationship with sex at all. It does not make a difference to him if he masterbate or has sex, which sucks for me because sex is much messier, more time consuming, and requires him to put in the effort to find me. So here we go... Plunging deep and feeling like a selfish ass. He asked a big what if. What if we weren't having sex at all. I told him straight up that he would have to open the marriage or become official coparents because I cannot live a passionless life forever. (The passionless part upset him because he feels like we have a lot of passions we share, just not sexual passion) so yeah.. oh and I told him I was unsure if I could stay married to him in the status of our sex life. I didn't say I would leave but the context of the question was where we see us in our 40's... My life. Fun fun. But today is going well, things have been peaceful and mostly normal. Not sure if that is good or bad. pretty good, mrslowmaintenance. I like your guts. You realize what you need and you told him. You are now wanting higher maintenance when it comes to your sex life. I'm sure there's a battle up ahead. Hopefully one where you both find a solution. Good luck. |
|
|
|
Post by greatcoastal on Aug 3, 2017 21:25:58 GMT -5
Ditto on baza's great advise. Just to add my own two cents,by seeing an attorney you will approach counselling with a much more positive, outlook of what you are seeking, and what you will not tolerate. Having a clearer picture of what a divorce will most likely turn out to be, will be a valuable tool in counselling.
You can set a dead line, and establish boundaries. This gains back the respect you deserve, and gives you an upper hand.
None of it's easy. NONE OF IT! There will be victories, small steps. Steps forward! For you and your whole family!
|
|
|
|
Post by northstarmom on Aug 3, 2017 21:37:11 GMT -5
Well... Update! I did it, I know, yay me (can I go vomit a little now) Looks like I now get to find somewhere for a toddler to be so I can schedule a counselling appointment. No doctor, yet. He was quite upset, and shocked. He feels that he has been putting in a lot of effort, and while I agree wholeheartedly that things have improved as far as frequency and communication, I still have zero passion coming from him. He was upset that I had boiled our entire relationship down to just sex. I can explain until the cows come home how sex isn't just a release, but he just does not have that relationship with sex at all. It does not make a difference to him if he masterbate or has sex, which sucks for me because sex is much messier, more time consuming, and requires him to put in the effort to find me. Sounds like you're trying to teach a blind man to take pleasure in seeing rainbows. In other words, sounds like your husband asexual. You aren't being selfish by trying to explain the joys of sex to him. However, you are not allowing yourself to see him for who he is. Someone who equates sexual passion with the passion of having similar hobbies is not capable fo providing you with the kind of mutually enjoyable, passionate sex you want. Counseling can't change him into being a person who feels lust. Counseling, however, could help you understand the fundamental sexual incompatibility between you and your husband and whether it's worth it to you to continue the marriage. PS If passionate sex were important to him, you wouldn't have to beg him to go to counseling. You wouldn't have to find the counselor nor would you have to be the only one looking for a babysitter so you could go to counseling. |
|
|
|
Post by h on Aug 4, 2017 4:06:19 GMT -5
Sounds like you're trying to teach a blind man to take pleasure in seeing rainbows. In other words, sounds like your husband asexual. You aren't being selfish by trying to explain the joys of sex to him. However, you are not allowing yourself to see him for who he is. Someone who equates sexual passion with the passion of having similar hobbies is not capable fo providing you with the kind of mutually enjoyable, passionate sex you want. Counseling can't change him into being a person who feels lust. Counseling, however, could help you understand the fundamental sexual incompatibility between you and your husband and whether it's worth it to you to continue the marriage. PS If passionate sex were important to him, you wouldn't have to beg him to go to counseling. You wouldn't have to find the counselor nor would you have to be the only one looking for a babysitter so you could go to counseling. I agree that he may never feel passionate about sex but if he loves her, he should feel passionate about making her feel loved. She has clearly stated what she needs in order to feel loved and cared for. Now it's up to him to decide if he is willing to do what it takes to accomplish this. I compare it to my W and her need for flowers. If I bought them and then tossed them at her and said "There, you happy now?" it wouldn't make her feel loved. The point isn't the action, it's the attitude conveyed with the action. If he can't make sex an act of love for the happiness of the woman he claims to love, just going through the motions isn't enough. |
|
|
|
Post by northstarmom on Aug 4, 2017 6:43:42 GMT -5
H, making passionate love is an expression of feeling lust. It can't be compared to giving flowers. My refuser ex gave me flowers. When he accidentally walked in our bedroom and saw me naked, he said, "excuse me," and walked out.
When this morning, my post sm lover saw my naked breasts, his eyes widened and he said, "pretty tits' he caresses my breasts in his sleep. He also gives me flowers but that expression of love isn't all he gives me. He lusts after me, enjoys touching me and giving me sexual pleasure while I do the same for him.
It's not something either of us has to force ourselves to do. The idea is laughable that our passionate sex life is the same as our passion for nonsexual hobbies.
Think of a food that you tolerate.could you force yourself to regularly eat it for at least 15 minutes with gusto to make your spouse happy? Would counseling help you achieve that goal? Her husband can no more make himself feel passion for making love to her than you can make yourself enjoy eating a food you barely tolerate. He might be able to touch her in ways that make her happy, but he can't make himself feel lust that would make lovemaking mutually passionate. She wants him to enjoy lovemaking but at best he will go through the motions hoping she will get off soon so he can stop doing something that he doesn't enjoy.
What she wishes is what most people here unrealistically hope for. It's what I hoped for. Even in the early days of marriage, my husband's lovemaking lacked passion. I was in my 20s looking with envy at couples who obviously loved each other's touch. It wasn't until decades later after I finally got out of that marriage that I experienced the love and passion I'd longed for. I learned that it's not something my partner or I make ourselves feel . It's just there.
|
|
|
|
Post by greatcoastal on Aug 4, 2017 7:36:41 GMT -5
Just your tittle "A talk is approaching" reminds me of recent world news, and how much it relates to a SM.
As North Korea continues to build and test fire nuclear missiles with the capacity to reach the United States, more and more talks about strategic patients goes on for decades.
Actions speak loader than words. Go into counseling ready. Write things down. Make lists of your demands, wants, needs, and concerns. It's time for taking.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2017 9:29:19 GMT -5
H, making passionate love is an expression of feeling lust. It can't be compared to giving flowers. My refuser ex gave me flowers. When he accidentally walked in our bedroom and saw me naked, he said, "excuse me," and walked out. When this morning, my post sm lover saw my naked breasts, his eyes widened and he said, "pretty tits' he caresses my breasts in his sleep. He also gives me flowers but that expression of love isn't all he gives me. He lists after me, enjoys touching me and giving me sexual pleasure while I do the same for him. It's not something either of us has to force ourselves to do. The idea is laughable that our passionate sex life is the same as our passion for nonsexual hobbies. Think of a food that you tolerate.could you force yourself to regularly eat it for at least 15 minutes with gusto to make your spouse happy? Would counseling help you achieve that goal? Her husband can no more make himself feel passion for making love to her than you can make yourself enjoy eating a food you barely tolerate. He might be able to touch her in ways that make her happy, but he can't make himself feel lust that would make lovemaking mutually passionate. She wants him tonenjoyblovemaking but at best he will go through the motions hoping she will get off soon so he can stop doing something that he doesn't enjoy. What she wishes is what most people here unrealistically hope for. It's what I hoped for. Even in the early days of marriage, my husband's lovemaking lacked passion. I was in my 20s looking with envy at couples who obviously loved each other's touch. It wasn't until decades later after I finally got out of that marriage that I experienced the love and passion I'd longed for. I learned that it's not something my partner or I make ourselves feel . It's just there. This is very much my take on it too. I view my wife's desire in almost the same way I view physical attributes like height. Let's say that it's the most important thing in the world for my wife to feel secure if her husband is 6'2". I'm 5'11" so even if she shared how she felt about height on a daily basis, it wouldn't be possible for me to be 3" taller. |
|
|
|
Post by worksforme2 on Aug 4, 2017 9:42:33 GMT -5
Not a lot to add. Before our 1st "talk" I set about fixing the things I realized were lacking in me. I realized I had not been initiating so I saw my physician and started a program to raise my testosterone levels back into a normal range. I went to the gym and worked on my physique to make myself more physically appealing. I did a lot more around the house to insure my spouse came home to a clean and tidy house. Meals were easy as I cooked most of the time but I put more effort into them. I upped the frequency of fresh flowers. In short I tried to do what a man should do when he wants his spouse to be available and as interested in intimacy as he is.
What I'm saying, and I know you have heard and read this many times on this site. A man does what he needs to do to show his SO that he desires her and wants to be intimate on a host of levels. He finds out what she likes between the sheets and does his best to insure she gets exactly that.
I wish you luck on the counselling effort. Perhaps there are some psychological issues that if addressed will help him be more forthcoming, but don't count on finding a pot of gold in a counselors office. Make sure you have a "plan B" if things doesn't come about as you hope. Good luck...
|
|
|
|
Post by mrslowmaintenance on Aug 4, 2017 11:56:29 GMT -5
I wish there was a love or hug button on here.. you guys make my heart happy.
Thank you so much for all your wonderful words. I reorganized my talk based on the comments, we talked more in bed that night. I feel okay right now, disappointed that it is me putting in the effort for a counselling session, but I know I have to try. My daughter deserves for me to try.
He has not tried to initiate, which surprised me, but we shall see if his decreased masterbation happens and changes anything (this I doubt). I will update more after I figure out a situation for my little.
I agree with you all, plan B should be looked into with an open mind. Not that I am setting a date or making official plans, but knowing what could be may bring me confidence or realization. We shall see! Onwards!!!!
|
|
|
|
Post by molecularchoas on Aug 5, 2017 3:50:27 GMT -5
I seriously doubt that you are boiling the whole relationship down to just sex. If he said or implied that you are he was just cranking up the guilt. You went to counseling once to deal with other issues, right? So you’ve proven in actions that it is not “just” about sex to you. Sex is not sufficient but it is necessary and there is nothing selfish about insisting on it. Actually it is rather selfless of you to stay there expending your energy attempting to drag his recalcitrant butt into a functional marriage so you don't have to inconvenience him with a divorce. Bonus points to you for the use of the word "recalcitrant", I don't hear that one too often. Extra bonus points for "not sufficient but it is necessary" (mainly because it's a common phrase in deductive logic/proofs.... but loved seeing it out in the real world hahaha.) |
|
|
|
Post by h on Aug 5, 2017 4:16:27 GMT -5
Bonus points to you for the use of the word "recalcitrant", I don't hear that one too often. Extra bonus points for "not sufficient but it is necessary" (mainly because it's a common phrase in deductive logic/proofs.... but loved seeing it out in the real world hahaha.) Is laura a mathematician? That's extra hotness points in my book! 😉😁 |
|
laura
Junior Member
Posts: 72 
Age Range: 31-35
|
Post by laura on Aug 6, 2017 18:17:02 GMT -5
Extra bonus points for "not sufficient but it is necessary" (mainly because it's a common phrase in deductive logic/proofs.... but loved seeing it out in the real world hahaha.) Is laura a mathematician? That's extra hotness points in my book! 😉😁 Haha! Thanks molecularchoas and h . I'm afraid I'll have to forego the extra hotness points though; I'm no mathematician! lifeinwoodinville recalcitrant is too good a word to ignore! I first heard it used by a friend's father in reference to the fat old pony she was trying to ride. In my child's mind, I tried to figure out the word and concluded that the pony's joints had literally "re-calcified" thus the reason that no amount of prodding would make her move. That image of my friend frantically flailing about trying to motivate an utterly unconcerned pony now makes me think of some of the refused/refuser dynamics described here. |
|
|
|
Post by Apocrypha on Aug 10, 2017 13:38:14 GMT -5
I wish there was a love or hug button on here.. you guys make my heart happy. Thank you so much for all your wonderful words. I reorganized my talk based on the comments, we talked more in bed that night. I feel okay right now, disappointed that it is me putting in the effort for a counselling session, but I know I have to try. My daughter deserves for me to try. He has not tried to initiate, which surprised me, but we shall see if his decreased masterbation happens and changes anything (this I doubt). I will update more after I figure out a situation for my little. I agree with you all, plan B should be looked into with an open mind. Not that I am setting a date or making official plans, but knowing what could be may bring me confidence or realization. We shall see! Onwards!!!! Decreased masturbation does not cause someone to develop sexual feelings for someone they don't want to have sex with. Decreasing his masturbation does not solve the problem YOU are having in your relationship. You are putting more effort into counselling because you value the intimate romantic relationship with a person who does not value that aspect of his relationship with you. His lack of initiation is consistent with his goal of avoiding such contact with you, with the minimum amount of hassle. Plan B is really Plan A, in terms of efficacy. Never once have I ever seen anyone "appear" to take things seriously until either an affair was known to them, or until dwelling arrangements made. That appears to be the starting line for any action at all, once you've passed the Rubicon of going celibate. |
|
