|
|
Post by mrslowmaintenance on Aug 2, 2017 12:00:15 GMT -5
When giving your talk, I'd do one thing different from what you suggest. You suggest letting him know all the things that are wrong then have an end game of getting him to counseling. I'd take a (modified) page from any speech writing handbook. Tell them what you're going to tell them Tell them Tell them what you told them In your case, you have a list of concerns. Then you ask for action. I would suggest you ask for action "We need to go to counseling". Then tell him your concerns. Then be sure to ask for action again. But on the second "ask", don't make it a request. I would actually schedule a counseling time and tell him you'd expect him to attend, but you are going regardless. I mean, this ain't the first time you've "asked". That will give you a fairly good feel for whether he will EVER go to counseling. Perhaps there is a scheduling conflict. Resolve the conflict then and there. Then call the counselor, and reschedule. The only word of warning I'd give comes from what I've seen others say about counseling. It is the ultimate "reset". You can go round and round for years, making "progress" with a counselor who has a vested interest in you continuing to come back week after week (this is one huge reason I didn't do counseling). In the end, though, a counselor cannot make your husband desire you more. Only your husband can do that. And in many cases? Not even he can do that (this is the other reason I didn't do counseling). But one thing is certain. Nothing will change if he will not make an effort. And going to a counselor to talk about it is about the lowest bar you can set (note: this was not a joke about your height). However...it is a good start. I wish you luck. I love this, all of this ^^^ You are truly amazing shammy. And we have actually been to counseling before, there was some serious shit that went down, but he refused to talk about our sex life. It helped with a lot of things, particularly our communication, but not discussing sex and his aversion to so much of it has clearly followed me. |
|
|
|
Post by lyn on Aug 2, 2017 12:38:14 GMT -5
Ok girl - you are an intelligent, capable, awesome af woman. Remember this as you approach this next "talk".
He will only get something out of any counseling if HE WANTS TO GO. I have a feeling it's the last thing he wants to do.
From my own experience with a sexually averse, avoidant spouse, the more you talk about it - sex - the more he will withhold emotionally, little by little. You might get a bit more action, but, it comes at a price typically. Whether we like to look at it this way or not, a lot of our refusers seem to be very *transactional* people with clear limits in their own minds to what they are willing to give.
If he is "convinced" by you or a counselor or anybody else that he *should* be f*cking you more - going down on you - you name it, these "acts" may be performed, however, the more he gives you physically, there is a huge chance that he'll be willing to give less and less emotionally.
Humans are tricky beasts.
I do realize I'm projecting my own sh*t here in what Ive written to you, but just maybe some of it will ring true for your situation too.
Big hugs honey
|
|
|
|
Post by shamwow on Aug 2, 2017 12:40:21 GMT -5
When giving your talk, I'd do one thing different from what you suggest. You suggest letting him know all the things that are wrong then have an end game of getting him to counseling. I'd take a (modified) page from any speech writing handbook. Tell them what you're going to tell them Tell them Tell them what you told them In your case, you have a list of concerns. Then you ask for action. I would suggest you ask for action "We need to go to counseling". Then tell him your concerns. Then be sure to ask for action again. But on the second "ask", don't make it a request. I would actually schedule a counseling time and tell him you'd expect him to attend, but you are going regardless. I mean, this ain't the first time you've "asked". That will give you a fairly good feel for whether he will EVER go to counseling. Perhaps there is a scheduling conflict. Resolve the conflict then and there. Then call the counselor, and reschedule. The only word of warning I'd give comes from what I've seen others say about counseling. It is the ultimate "reset". You can go round and round for years, making "progress" with a counselor who has a vested interest in you continuing to come back week after week (this is one huge reason I didn't do counseling). In the end, though, a counselor cannot make your husband desire you more. Only your husband can do that. And in many cases? Not even he can do that (this is the other reason I didn't do counseling). But one thing is certain. Nothing will change if he will not make an effort. And going to a counselor to talk about it is about the lowest bar you can set (note: this was not a joke about your height). However...it is a good start. I wish you luck. I love this, all of this ^^^ You are truly amazing shammy. And we have actually been to counseling before, there was some serious shit that went down, but he refused to talk about our sex life. It helped with a lot of things, particularly our communication, but not discussing sex and his aversion to so much of it has clearly followed me. One thing going through my experience has taught me is that I no longer have time for bullshit. Even though you are quite a bit younger than I am, I'd suggest you also don't. Nobody has time for bullshit. If he will go to counseling and not discuss the root problem (I don't care if you want to call it sex, intimacy, eating your pussy, etc...) nothing will be done. All I suggest is that you go in there with the clear expectations that these are the things you expect to come out of counseling. If you have consequences in mind, lay them out. If you do not have consequences in mind, don't imply them. Not following through would be disastrous. Honestly, from previous conversations, you really do get along with the man bar the sex. But you need the sex and he doesn't have the desire. Your libidos are mismatched, and he doesn't want to discuss it. That makes a ton of sense since he knows it likely has dire consequences. You've been with him long enough to know this is probably not going to change, counseling or not. But I understand the need to check the box so you can say "you tried everything." So the basic question come back to the question all of us face: Stay - Decades of frustration and misery, but you fulfill your obligation in martyred silence. You will experience happiness commensurate to a martyr Cheat - Get the itch scratched physically, but probably not emotionally...and risk discovery. You will experience happiness from the physical experience and the mixed blessing of possible emotional bonding with your new partner Leave - Recognize this isn't going to ever work and address that reality. Of course this means your family also splits up and everything that comes with that. You will have the greatest opportunity for happiness, but only after short/medium term suffering. I'm a barrel of laughs today, aren't I? But as baza says, all three are legitimate choices, and each requires a different strategy. |
|
|
|
Post by shamwow on Aug 2, 2017 12:50:59 GMT -5
Wow! I just woke up this morning to the best gift. You guys are so wonderful, seriously, I am smiling and near crying by all the wonderful things you guys ahv said, encouraged and advised... I am so glad I talked to you guys first, I needed this before I talk to him. I know if I cry he won't listen so I like to say the main hurtful points out loud to myself before I tell him (get that muscle memory and get the initial shock of what I shave just said out of the way) so... Yes. Okay. I can do this. Right? Yeah.. yeah I can do this. There is not a damn thing wrong with crying. 6 months ago, I prided myself that I had only cried 4 times in my adult life. Since then, there have been times I've cried 4 times in an hour. If you need to cry, cry. The benefits of holding it in (appear calm and rational) are far outweighed by the benefits of letting it out (he knows exactly where you stand and that you are serious). |
|
|
|
Post by merrygoround on Aug 2, 2017 13:19:19 GMT -5
MLM, just wanting to send you hugs and all the best for the talk. I truly hope that it goes the way you want it to, I really do, but it saddens me so much of what the situation has already done to you, that you feel yourself slipping. Please take good care of YOU. It's not selfish AT ALL. If he can't, or doesn't want to, just know that whatever depths of pain you feel, we are all here for you. Some have trodden your path, some are trudging along with you. But we are all on your side xx
|
|
laura
Junior Member
Posts: 72 
Age Range: 31-35
|
Post by laura on Aug 2, 2017 16:18:16 GMT -5
Good for you, knowing to have the talk while you still have the energy for it! You are an inspiration. From everything I've read from you here I think your feelings of depression are entirely situational and justified. You shouldn't have to beg and with virtually any other man you wouldn't have to. There is a lot of great advice and encouragement here and I'm too late to the game to have much to add. I'll just say that you have everything going for you, intelligence, resourcefulness, toughness... no mater how the talk goes, I think you have a lot of success in your future. You probably don't realize just how exceptional you are, but it comes through unmistakably in in your writing. You have a lot of options.
I hope your talk goes incredibly well and I hope you'll post about it no matter what happens.
Good Luck!
|
|
|
|
Post by nolongerlonely on Aug 3, 2017 4:11:35 GMT -5
I'm sorry to read this too. And I have lots of thoughts on the subject by comparing your relationship to mine. The two things that pop into my head more than any other are ;
If you cry, it is the ultimate display of your emotions running out of you. If he ignores this, quite frankly the relationship will ultimately go nowhere. I cry, usually alone.Have done for years, over my broken relationship which has taken me years to address. I cry More openly these days, although in front of a dear friend rather than my stbx. The action should be responded to with comfort and compassion, not ignorance.
And that leads onto my second thought. You cant ignore your feelings. No amount of counselling will change it. I've tried and tried since shortly after our child was born (she is 24 now !). I was in receipt of 'diminished' affection, physical rejection and much worse than that pretty well ever since she arrived, well beforehand actually. I used every tool in the cupboard to attempt to carry on.But in the back of my mind, the relationship was a fail. Her (the stbx) control, and aggression, sent me into a sad and lonely place where I lacked the confidence in myself to do anything. I lost at least 22 years of my life over this scenario. I started crying probably 10 years ago, on long country walks on my own, wishing I was sharing my life with someone who loved me back, reminiscing about a marriage which was a sham almost from the beginning.
Please dont be me. I am not advocating divorce or separation here, I took those vows very seriously and passionately agree with the principle of marriage. But I was lied to, and at best she lied at the church. So,I deliberately decided to stay for my child. Even though by the time she was about 16, tv programmes were saying this is the wrong choice. Bit late !! So I waited some more. I got so stressed about it all, watching my life slide past, I had some very dark thoughts, and even developed shingles twice. And then, one magical day, I discovered this place. And I came down to earth with a huge bump, realising that all those feelings were shared with so many others on here. It will never be right for you if you have those doubts now. I'm really really sorry to say it. But its true. Use the support here to help yourself to fix yourself now. I havent felt as good as I do now for over 25 years. What a waste. But on the otherhand, if I had left back then, I may never have found this forum, or the wonderful people on it. That in itself has been life changing.
Be strong. And if you cry, and he ignores you, you'll know.
|
|
|
|
Post by shamwow on Aug 3, 2017 13:22:00 GMT -5
If you cry, it is the ultimate display of your emotions running out of you. If he ignores this, quite frankly the relationship will ultimately go nowhere. I cry, usually alone.Have done for years, over my broken relationship which has taken me years to address. I cry More openly these days, although in front of a dear friend rather than my stbx. The action should be responded to with comfort and compassion, not ignorance. One of the four times I've cried in my adult life prior to announcing my divorce was the final come-to-jesus talk with my ex. It was ignored. Upon announcing divorce, she indicated that she expected one more chance. But by that time, it was too late: The pinata had awoken. |
|
|
|
Post by mrslowmaintenance on Aug 3, 2017 17:17:16 GMT -5
Well... Update!
I did it, I know, yay me (can I go vomit a little now)
Looks like I now get to find somewhere for a toddler to be so I can schedule a counselling appointment. No doctor, yet.
He was quite upset, and shocked. He feels that he has been putting in a lot of effort, and while I agree wholeheartedly that things have improved as far as frequency and communication, I still have zero passion coming from him.
He was upset that I had boiled our entire relationship down to just sex. I can explain until the cows come home how sex isn't just a release, but he just does not have that relationship with sex at all. It does not make a difference to him if he masterbate or has sex, which sucks for me because sex is much messier, more time consuming, and requires him to put in the effort to find me.
So here we go... Plunging deep and feeling like a selfish ass.
He asked a big what if. What if we weren't having sex at all. I told him straight up that he would have to open the marriage or become official coparents because I cannot live a passionless life forever. (The passionless part upset him because he feels like we have a lot of passions we share, just not sexual passion) so yeah.. oh and I told him I was unsure if I could stay married to him in the status of our sex life. I didn't say I would leave but the context of the question was where we see us in our 40's...
My life. Fun fun.
But today is going well, things have been peaceful and mostly normal. Not sure if that is good or bad.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2017 17:18:24 GMT -5
nolongerlonely, this is a very sad story, and mine is a parallel to it. I stayed in sexless hell for 28 years and decided that I could not take it any more. I also feel that I lost my best sexual years, and I won't ever be able to get them back. However, I have found someone who thinks I am wonderful and loves me as I am.
|
|
|
|
Post by McRoomMate on Aug 3, 2017 17:23:49 GMT -5
Tell them what you're going to tell them Tell them Tell them what you told them that is very nice. I am going to keep that for general use. Very nice. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2017 17:24:55 GMT -5
He asked a big what if. What if we weren't having sex at all. I hate it when refusers ask this. It is like they are putting you on the spot. However, you did an awesome job of responding. |
|
|
|
Post by McRoomMate on Aug 3, 2017 17:28:11 GMT -5
Depression setting in? Well I can understand. This whole thing can be so disheartening. Like the universe is so out of whack and the closer it is to me, the more out of balance everything is.
COURAGE and BLESSINGS. Prepare as best you can - rehearse what shall be said.
I really like that 3 fold way of communicating shamwow mentioned very smart - so you say it essentially 3 times.
So much good advice.
Go far it !!! Do it!!! Fear will not stop you from going thru with this. Advance, as a French Revolutionary quipped 200 years ago.
"Dare, and Dare, and then Dare some more always" Courage and Power to You!!!
|
|
|
|
Post by h on Aug 3, 2017 18:07:51 GMT -5
Congratulations mrslowmaintenance on holding your ground! It took me way too long to honestly lay it all out like that. It feels good afterwards to get it out but it's scary going into a talk like that. Great job! |
|
laura
Junior Member
Posts: 72
Age Range: 31-35
|
Post by laura on Aug 3, 2017 18:48:06 GMT -5
I seriously doubt that you are boiling the whole relationship down to just sex. If he said or implied that you are he was just cranking up the guilt. You went to counseling once to deal with other issues, right? So you’ve proven in actions that it is not “just” about sex to you. Sex is not sufficient but it is necessary and there is nothing selfish about insisting on it. Actually it is rather selfless of you to stay there expending your energy attempting to drag his recalcitrant butt into a functional marriage so you don't have to inconvenience him with a divorce.
|
|
