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Post by carl on Aug 1, 2017 10:19:16 GMT -5
Is there a difference. Sometimes I would see someone in very different ways. Could feel totally in love with someone but not really that horny, yet the feeling of being in love would be so strong. Other people have a sex appeal and the feelings of love are less sometimes. But after so long in a sexless marriage, when sex comes along, can't help some feeling of love too.
Do other people find the separation of the two or do sex and love merge.
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Post by hopingforachange on Aug 1, 2017 10:28:49 GMT -5
Sex and be without love. But Love can not be without Sex.
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Post by bballgirl on Aug 1, 2017 10:42:58 GMT -5
Sex and be without love. But Love can not be without Sex. I agree 100%. With romantic love there are so many layers. For me to fall in love there has to be connection, communication, I have to be courted - taken out, do things outside of the bedroom as well as in, kissing, affection, intimacy. The relationship has to be cultivated to fall in love for me. I can have sex and even make love but not fall in love. There are different types of love and we can love people who are our friends who we have an intimate connection with but its not "in love". Just my 2 cents |
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Post by solitarysoul on Aug 1, 2017 12:00:44 GMT -5
I guess they can't be too separate.... Before the W, I was dumped by more than a few women who said "I don't feel anything"... I thought they meant emotionally and I was too much a nice guy.... Now I wonder if they meant physically since I never tried to have sex with any of them...
I was being a nice guy and not pushing myself on them.
Maybe they were looking for the physical connection as well as an emotional one....and I came up short...
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Post by northstarmom on Aug 1, 2017 15:05:06 GMT -5
"Before the W, I was dumped by more than a few women who said "I don't feel anything"... I thought they meant emotionally and I was too much a nice guy.... Now I wonder if they meant physically since I never tried to have sex with any of them... "
I don't see anything nice about not expressing sexual attraction for (or acting in sexual attraction) for one's romantic partner.
By the same token, your wife may think she is being nice by rejecting your offers to have sex. She may think nice women have no libidos.
I believe many of us ended up in SMS due to our own hang ups. We were afraid or ashamed of our own sexual feelings and therefore chose someone who would not be interested in sex with us.
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Post by brian on Aug 1, 2017 18:53:06 GMT -5
I believe many of us ended up in SMS due to our own hang ups. We were afraid or ashamed of our own sexual feelings and therefore chose someone who would not be interested in sex with us. Oh, that's definitely NOT me. I have always been in touch with my sexual feelings. I made a very thoughtful decision (or so I thought) before marrying my now roommate... although she did not share the same sexual leanings/desires that I had, the actual sex with her was really good and I decided that I could live without the rest (mostly giving oral) because the rest was adequate to show me how much she cared. Then we got married. We fucked once during our honeymoon. Maybe another 3 or 4 times between then and the conception of our first child. It was 2 years before she would engage in that activity with me again (when she was ready to have another child). Lather. Rinse. Repeat. Until she was done having children. I will have sex with just about any woman that expresses an interest in having sex with me, and I'm not bashful about it any longer. |
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Post by novembercomingfire on Aug 1, 2017 19:09:29 GMT -5
I believe many of us ended up in SMS due to our own hang ups. We were afraid or ashamed of our own sexual feelings and therefore chose someone who would not be interested in sex with us. Oh, that's definitely NOT me. I have always been in touch with my sexual feelings. I made a very thoughtful decision (or so I thought) before marrying my now roommate... although she did not share the same sexual leanings/desires that I had, the actual sex with her was really good and I decided that I could live without the rest (mostly giving oral) because the rest was adequate to show me how much she cared. Then we got married. We fucked once during our honeymoon. Maybe another 3 or 4 times between then and the conception of our first child. It was 2 years before she would engage in that activity with me again (when she was ready to have another child). Lather. Rinse. Repeat. Until she was done having children. I will have sex with just about any woman that expresses an interest in having sex with me, and I'm not bashful about it any longer. Amen brother. |
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Post by solitarysoul on Aug 1, 2017 19:24:44 GMT -5
"Before the W, I was dumped by more than a few women who said "I don't feel anything"... I thought they meant emotionally and I was too much a nice guy.... Now I wonder if they meant physically since I never tried to have sex with any of them... " I don't see anything nice about not expressing sexual attraction for (or acting in sexual attraction) for one's romantic partner. By the same token, your wife may think she is being nice by rejecting your offers to have sex. She may think nice women have no libidos. I believe many of us ended up in SMS due to our own hang ups. We were afraid or ashamed of our own sexual feelings and therefore chose someone who would not be interested in sex with us. I was raised in the traditional way that boys are bad, aggressive, sexual beings while good girls don't want sex and have too much to lose...the traditional Catholic way...it never occurred to me when I was young that normal girls/women would desire sex...I was raised that emotional love must always come first (for any woman)... Look at the usual romantic stories we raise children with.... Cinderella, sleeping beauty, beauty and the beast...sex is not present... And in the usual catholic way, I have not been comfortable with my sexuality...only when I am alone am I comfortable. I was just starting to come out of my shell when the W showed up. And I do think she has some issues about what good girls do. She claims to never have masturbated, and seems to have spent the 8 years before she met me totally celebate. I think this puritanical society we live in says emotional love must come first, must be proven and committed before a woman would consider sex...and I bought that story growing up....while everybody else was fucking in the back room...even the preacher who told the story... As someone who embarrasses easy, I will probably never be comfortable with my sexuality and other people...I have felt judged too many times, even by W. Hence I stay in this SM because outside will bring nothing better.... |
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Post by baza on Aug 1, 2017 19:54:02 GMT -5
If there's one good thing about being in an ILIASM shithole, it is that matters of "sex" are irrelevant in anything other than theory.
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Post by northstarmom on Aug 1, 2017 20:19:11 GMT -5
"Then we got married. We fucked once during our honeymoon. Maybe another 3 or 4 times between then and the conception of our first child. It was 2 years before she would engage in that activity with me again (when she was ready to have another child). Lather. Rinse. Repeat. Until she was done having children."
If you didn't have some hangups about sex, you wouldn't have stayed with a woman who even at the beginning of your marriage had sex with you so infrequently. You would have felt that sex was an essential part of marriage, and since she wasn't willing, there was no reason to stay married.
Keep in mind I'm saying this as someone who left an SM. To do this, I had to clarify to myself that sex was normal, healthy and an essential part of marriage. To leave, I had to completely believe that I was normal and healthy and my spouse was flat out wrong, and our marriage was grossly dysfunctional. It took me more than 30 years to get to that point. I don't believe that saying you'll have affairs makes up for a SM. If you believed that sexual love is important as part of a marriage, you wouldn't stay with someone who is basically a roommate and a co-parent. An affair wouldn't give you the kind of love that you wanted when you married. Presumably, you wanted a committed, public love that included sex. You weren't seeking a sex-only arrangement that had to be hidden.
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Post by ironhamster on Aug 1, 2017 20:26:53 GMT -5
I believe many of us ended up in SMS due to our own hang ups. We were afraid or ashamed of our own sexual feelings and therefore chose someone who would not be interested in sex with us. ...I will have sex with just about any woman that expresses an interest in having sex with me, and I'm not bashful about it any longer. I'm a bit more selective, but also very unsuccessful. |
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Post by ironhamster on Aug 1, 2017 20:51:27 GMT -5
"Then we got married. We fucked once during our honeymoon. Maybe another 3 or 4 times between then and the conception of our first child. It was 2 years before she would engage in that activity with me again (when she was ready to have another child). Lather. Rinse. Repeat. Until she was done having children." If you didn't have some hangups about sex, you wouldn't have stayed with a woman who even at the beginning of your marriage had sex with you so infrequently. You would have felt that sex was an essential part of marriage, and since she wasn't willing, there was no reason to stay married. Keep in mind I'm saying this as someone who left an SM. To do this, I had to clarify to myself that sex was normal, healthy and an essential part of marriage. To leave, I had to completely believe that I was normal and healthy and my spouse was flat out wrong, and our marriage was grossly dysfunctional. It took me more than 30 years to get to that point. I don't believe that saying you'll have affairs makes up for a SM. If you believed that sexual love is important as part of a marriage, you wouldn't stay with someone who is basically a roommate and a co-parent. An affair wouldn't give you the kind of love that you wanted when you married. Presumably, you wanted a committed, public love that included sex. You weren't seeking a sex-only arrangement that had to be hidden. I stayed, and mine was fucked up from the kiss at the altar. I believed in commitment, and honor. Divorce was unthinkable as was an affair. About a year in, an old girlfriend I'd been crazy for made contact with me. I knew temptation was there. I never responded to her. I switched jobs, and found myself working in light industry with a lot of divorcées and ex-strippers. I had some temptations there but I never strayed. I always held true to my honor and my belief things would get better. Whatever issue was at the top of the excuse list could be overcome. ...oh, what an obstinate dumbshit I was. |
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Post by brian on Aug 1, 2017 20:58:24 GMT -5
"Then we got married. We fucked once during our honeymoon. Maybe another 3 or 4 times between then and the conception of our first child. It was 2 years before she would engage in that activity with me again (when she was ready to have another child). Lather. Rinse. Repeat. Until she was done having children." If you didn't have some hangups about sex, you wouldn't have stayed with a woman who even at the beginning of your marriage had sex with you so infrequently. You would have felt that sex was an essential part of marriage, and since she wasn't willing, there was no reason to stay married. Keep in mind I'm saying this as someone who left an SM. To do this, I had to clarify to myself that sex was normal, healthy and an essential part of marriage. To leave, I had to completely believe that I was normal and healthy and my spouse was flat out wrong, and our marriage was grossly dysfunctional. It took me more than 30 years to get to that point. I don't believe that saying you'll have affairs makes up for a SM. If you believed that sexual love is important as part of a marriage, you wouldn't stay with someone who is basically a roommate and a co-parent. An affair wouldn't give you the kind of love that you wanted when you married. Presumably, you wanted a committed, public love that included sex. You weren't seeking a sex-only arrangement that had to be hidden. I get what you are saying northstarmom. My hangups were more about disappointing others than about recognizing that the sexual frequency was off. I spent years "why chasing". Each pregnancy, she would become very ill. Sometimes to the point of requiring trips to the emergency room. Write off 10 months. Recovery from giving birth. Write off another 3 months. Write off a few more months of being insanely tired from having a baby around. THEN start wondering why she didn't want to have sex with me. Fast forward just a few months... have sex a few times in a short span, 2 weeks later, and we are repeating the cycle again. So there was real, physical, reasons why she wasn't interested, and being the loving husband, was willing to give her the room she wanted. After the forth child (I know, WHAT WAS I THINKING!?!) and nearly 2 years later (2007) is when I started to really question the validity of our marriage. I found EP. I read EVERYTHING on the ILIASM forum and checked in nightly to read new posts and comments. I began to understand things at a deeper level. I tried to relate to my refuser. I tried to convince her that sex was necessary, needed, and normal. Like many here, I did that for YEARS. I pretty much gave up in 2014, started planning my exit. Told myself that I was out by my next b-day. It came. It went. Still in my ILIASM shithole. Set my sights on 2015... give it one more year. Maybe if she sees that I'm serious... yeah... that one came and went too. This cycle, from what I can gather, is a rather normal experience. Baz even posted about it once (or twice, or more  ) ). We go back and forth mentally until we get our shit together and can courageously move forward. We are now working at putting our kids through college (1 already started, 1 goes next year, other 2 follow later on), and I bristle at the thought of upending their world right now. Yes, I know they would survive. Yes, I know that the older two would understand. But it's just not going to happen right now. I have accepted this delay.... ...but in 2015 I was able to reach a point mentally where outsourcing was okay in my mind, and have been operating like that ever since. I have been extremely open about that with my refuser, actually HOPING (probably foolishly) that maybe, just MAYBE, she would at least TRY to have a physical relationship with me. That's apparently not in the cards. After calling her out point blank yesterday for promising sex the night before and reneging (can't count the number of times she's done that... MANY), she wanted to try and make it up to me last night. Her attempt was that she would allow me to hold her breasts for about 3 minutes. Then she sent me to the couch for the night so she could sleep. So... do I simply want to root just anybody? Probably for the first couple of times, YES!!! Because I want to feel what it's like to have sex with someone who wants to have sex with me, even if there isn't much/any emotional connection. Would/Will I be happy with such an arrangement long-term? I seriously doubt it, but I'll cross that bridge later. If you consider that I didn't want to knee-jerk leave the relationship immediately as having a sexual "hangup", that's fine, but I can trace my choices and actions all the way to the beginning and understand how I got here. Knowing what I know now, I would have chosen differently. Only knowing what I knew then, I would have made the exact choices that I did all over again. |
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Post by h on Aug 1, 2017 21:47:21 GMT -5
I believe many of us ended up in SMS due to our own hang ups. We were afraid or ashamed of our own sexual feelings and therefore chose someone who would not be interested in sex with us. Not for me. I wasn't ashamed of my sexuality. I was unprepared to have to fight for it. I was unsure of how to talk about it and make my voice heard. I didn't know any better and ended up going without just because I didn't know how to speak up for myself. |
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Post by mrslowmaintenance on Aug 2, 2017 3:09:49 GMT -5
I think the Greeks had it right on this one.
There are at least four words that we would translate to the single form "love"
(I should Google this before I type it, but I am far too lazy to open a new tab)
One of them is love like you would a friend
Another is love that you would have as a parent
Another is love for God
And one is love in a sexual/passionate form.
So I suppose it depends on whole this is in regard to.
In regard to your life partner I believe it should be option one and four. I like to think that your life partner should be one of your best fiends. They should also be your dirty little secret.
I absolutely love some of my friends, I would do unspeakable things for some of them. I do not want to have sex with them.
I want to have sex with some of the guys in my life, I do not love them (hell some of them I don't even like, they just have that look mmm..... Sexy but a douche canoe)
Anyway... Yup
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) ). We go back and forth mentally until we get our shit together and can courageously move forward.
