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Post by WindSister on Jul 25, 2017 14:58:10 GMT -5
Devils advocate here: what if instead of asking the refuser to chamge, we change. Not for our refusers sake but for ourselves. What if we took better care of ourselves, dropped those few pounds we carry around, updated the wardrobe, got a new haircut, take that trip, start that hobby. Forget the refuser for awhile. Focus on ourselves, our needs, our happiness. At some point the refuser might notice. And if they dont, fuck 'em. You will probably have attracted half a dozen new potential partners by the time the transformation is done. Maybe the change starts within us. Did that, too. I was told "Be the kind of woman who has the kind of man you want in your life." I was also told that man may or may not be my "at the time" husband. Turned out, HE was NOT that man. He didn't respond to the changes. He didn't join me in the life I was creating for myself, a life of passion, intimacy and joy. So I left. |
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Post by TheGreatContender -aka Daddeeo on Jul 25, 2017 15:54:51 GMT -5
WindSister flashjohnIts a shame your significant others paid no heed to your efforts. Indifference and apathy is a huge relationship tell. It signals that part of the journey has ended. That in itself is a difficult realization for some of us. I hope that you both came out better for having the guts to improve yourselves.
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Post by McRoomMate on Jul 25, 2017 17:42:39 GMT -5
Devils advocate here: what if instead of asking the refuser to chamge, we change. Not for our refusers sake but for ourselves. What if we took better care of ourselves, dropped those few pounds we carry around, updated the wardrobe, got a new haircut, take that trip, start that hobby. Forget the refuser for awhile. Focus on ourselves, our needs, our happiness. At some point the refuser might notice. And if they dont, fuck 'em. You will probably have attracted half a dozen new potential partners by the time the transformation is done. Maybe the change starts within us. Of course it is possible if a Refuser wants to change. But that is the issue, the vast majority of refusers don't give a flying fuck in hell how their behavior affects their spouses. Yes that is ABSOLUTELY the point here - for those couples where SM is a symptom of just a good relationship gone bad - evidenced by whatever reason - and probably most often the attraction and respect have whithered. Asking for more sex and directing the focus on more sex or lack of sex - is like trying to the SYMPTOM but not fixing the underlying problems. Of course this does not really apply in a huge part of the cases where one partner is asexual or medical biological psychological reasons (impotence, post trauma, illness, medical condition, etc.) but it DEFINITELY applies in those those "other cases" where the SM is a symptom of a dysfunctional couple that possibly can be fixed with BOTH parties making EFFORTS |
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Post by McRoomMate on Jul 25, 2017 17:44:14 GMT -5
Devils advocate here: what if instead of asking the refuser to chamge, we change. Not for our refusers sake but for ourselves. What if we took better care of ourselves, dropped those few pounds we carry around, updated the wardrobe, got a new haircut, take that trip, start that hobby. Forget the refuser for awhile. Focus on ourselves, our needs, our happiness. At some point the refuser might notice. And if they dont, fuck 'em. You will probably have attracted half a dozen new potential partners by the time the transformation is done. Maybe the change starts within us. Did that, too. I was told "Be the kind of woman who has the kind of man you want in your life." I was also told that man may or may not be my "at the time" husband. Turned out, HE was NOT that man. He didn't respond to the changes. He didn't join me in the life I was creating for myself, a life of passion, intimacy and joy. So I left. This goes to the lack of attraction and respect. The lack of sex was a manifestation of these underlying conditions. Sorry to hear that by the way and CONGRATULATIONS on making a decision and doing something. |
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Post by novembercomingfire on Jul 25, 2017 18:13:53 GMT -5
The reasons one can end up in a SM are endless and, certainly in my case, there can be a chicken and the egg problem. I think each individual's puzzle can be simple to solve (as in the type of relationship problems so often written about) where one piece is put back in place and whala! More often though, the problems in a relationship are all interwoven and cannot be disconnected. Has my wife always been somewhat sex averse? Yes. But, have I always been the initiator and could that have affected how she views our sex life? Also possible. After 28 years of relative sexlessness and the accompanying issues i'm not sure we could unravel it all if we tried. However, especially earlier in the relationship you have to try and McRoomMate's information is one of the things to try. From experience, you may not want to try to unravel it. My wife has been doing that a lot lately in an attempt to justify her 20 years of forced celibacy. I have heard at least half a dozen different reasons in the past two weeks, each purporting to be the reason. I agree, problems need to be addressed as they arise and not 20 years down the road to the abyss. |
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Post by baza on Jul 25, 2017 18:56:17 GMT -5
That is the thing about "theories".
The soundest theory possible remains just a theory until such time as you apply the theory to your particular scenario.
Then, and only then, you find out how it works in practice, in your particular scenario.
For example, let's say theories about increasing libido as posited in this story.
Try these theories mentioned.
Observe how successful they are when applied to your unique scenario.
I have a theory about how such theories will spin out in an ILIASM shithole environment.
If your spouse is sexually attracted to you there is a very high chance that the theory will work.
If your spouse is sexually indifferent to you, then there's a very high chance that the theory will not work.
If your spouse is sexually avoidant toward you, then there is no hope of the theory working.
Now, within this actual group, can anyone point toward a story where the spouse is sexually attracted to the ILIASM member ?
I have another theory - that being that very few, if any, members here have a spouse who is sexually attracted to them.
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johannesfactotum
Junior Member
Behold the field in which I grow my fucks! Lay thine eyes upon it and ye shall see that it is barren
Posts: 42 
Age Range: 51-55
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Post by johannesfactotum on Jul 25, 2017 19:27:02 GMT -5
In my case, my dead bedroom started pretty much the minute I said my wedding vows. I was in the military, young, fit, and reasonably attractive, and had abundant opportunities to cheat on my wife with willing and eager women if I had chosen to. I worked my military job and had a lucrative part-time job for extra money. After my wife separated from the military (3 years after marriage), she was a stay-at-home housewife by her choice and we had no children for the first 15 years of our marriage. I was a supportive, non-demanding husband who has been faithful our entire marriage. I waited patiently for her to work out her sex issues but at no point in our marriage did we ever have sex (and boring disinterested sex on her part) more than 5-6 times per year. This, despite a relatively stress-free life without most of the issues that other women cite as responsible for their lack of desire.
Sometimes marriages are just lemons from the beginning. You can keep trying to fix them, but at some point, you should just cut loose and run. I should have cut and run at about the 5 year mark. That was enough time to know that any further efforts would have just been in vain.
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Post by beachguy on Jul 25, 2017 20:19:37 GMT -5
It is TRUE or at least there is strong scientific evidence that LIBIDO increases with use. Yes it is also true some people and particularly for many of the "other spouse" of folks on here are not into sex with their H/W or generally asexual / sexual averse. However, some of the folks on this Forum can turn their SM around. Libido of the other partner can be possibly increased. Ways to INCREASE LIBIDO 1. Frequency especially for most (not all) Women www.yourtango.com/experts/therapist-colette-malan/want-increase-your-sexual-desire-have-more-sexOne little problem... if you've ever researched asexuality, you know that the more sex they have the more averse they are to having sex. That is a basic tenet underlying asexuality and how they interact with their sexual partners. The more the sexual partner manages to have sex with them (regardless of the method) the more averse they are. This is why an asexual might start out having modest amounts of sex but it almost always trends to total celibacy because inevitably the sexual partner is pushing the envelope as much as possible because they are sex starved. It is a viscous downhill spiral. Yea, I know, asexuality is really rare and surely most of the marriages here do not involve asexuals... But you know what? This describes the vast majority of marriages here. Something to ponder. And for sure, these internet silver bullet self help sex guides DO NOT apply to the relationships here. Having more sex here is a road straight to total celibacy, if you're not already there. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2017 22:06:23 GMT -5
Of course it is possible if a Refuser wants to change. But that is the issue, the vast majority of refusers don't give a flying fuck in hell how their behavior affects their spouses. This. What do you do if your refuser won't even discuss it anymore? Or throws red herrings your way whenever you bring it up? Or turns the table and blames you even though you've been begging for sex for years? What do you do if your refuser won't go to counseling, individual or couples? What do you do then? What if your refuser seems to think your marriage is just fine the way it is? What if they don't care to meet your needs? What if they don't even ask you what your needs are? What do you do if you've lost all the baby weight, gone out and lived your life, made your own friends, pursued your own hobbies, gotten a new career, and still... there's no sex, no intimacy, no warm snuggles on the couch, no conversation beyond the daily routine... What then? Maybe there are a few people here with spouses willing to work at it and take equal responsibility. But I know I have done all I can. When I leave, I'll be able to say that with no reservations. McRoomMate, I admire your optimism. But for too many of us, all hope is lost. We'll never have more than we have in front of us. In fact, we'll probably only have progressively less. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2017 22:55:27 GMT -5
Of course it is possible if a Refuser wants to change. But that is the issue, the vast majority of refusers don't give a flying fuck in hell how their behavior affects their spouses. This. What do you do if your refuser won't even discuss it anymore? Or throws red herrings your way whenever you bring it up? Or turns the table and blames you even though you've been begging for sex for years? What do you do if your refuser won't go to counseling, individual or couples? What do you do then? What if your refuser seems to think your marriage is just fine the way it is? What if they don't care to meet your needs? What if they don't even ask you what your needs are? What do you do if you've lost all the baby weight, gone out and lived your life, made your own friends, pursued your own hobbies, gotten a new career, and still... there's no sex, no intimacy, no warm snuggles on the couch, no conversation beyond the daily routine... What then? Maybe there are a few people here with spouses willing to work at it and take equal responsibility. But I know I have done all I can. When I leave, I'll be able to say that with no reservations. McRoomMate, I admire your optimism. But for too many of us, all hope is lost. We'll never have more than we have in front of us. In fact, we'll probably only have progressively less. Elle, you are very wise. My refuser was very similar |
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Post by McRoomMate on Jul 26, 2017 1:17:37 GMT -5
It is TRUE or at least there is strong scientific evidence that LIBIDO increases with use. Yes it is also true some people and particularly for many of the "other spouse" of folks on here are not into sex with their H/W or generally asexual / sexual averse. However, some of the folks on this Forum can turn their SM around. Libido of the other partner can be possibly increased. Ways to INCREASE LIBIDO 1. Frequency especially for most (not all) Women www.yourtango.com/experts/therapist-colette-malan/want-increase-your-sexual-desire-have-more-sexOne little problem... if you've ever researched asexuality, you know that the more sex they have the more averse they are to having sex. That is a basic tenet underlying asexuality and how they interact with their sexual partners. The more the sexual partner manages to have sex with them (regardless of the method) the more averse they are. This is why an asexual might start out having modest amounts of sex but it almost always trends to total celibacy because inevitably the sexual partner is pushing the envelope as much as possible because they are sex starved. It is a viscous downhill spiral. Yea, I know, asexuality is really rare and surely most of the marriages here do not involve asexuals... But you know what? This describes the vast majority of marriages here. Something to ponder. And for sure, these internet silver bullet self help sex guides DO NOT apply to the relationships here. Having more sex here is a road straight to total celibacy, if you're not already there. Thanks beachguy yes the "asexual" partner and situation are quite common on these threads - and you make a very valid point. I would just add that probably a minority of relationships here - some percentage for sure - are not due to "asexual" partners but more to the dysfunctional marriage - e.g. - lack of respect and attraction etc. caused for whatever reason usually outside the bedroom and the lack of sex is a symptom of this problem. |
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Post by McRoomMate on Jul 26, 2017 1:22:15 GMT -5
Of course it is possible if a Refuser wants to change. But that is the issue, the vast majority of refusers don't give a flying fuck in hell how their behavior affects their spouses. This. What do you do if your refuser won't even discuss it anymore? Or throws red herrings your way whenever you bring it up? Or turns the table and blames you even though you've been begging for sex for years? What do you do if your refuser won't go to counseling, individual or couples? What do you do then? What if your refuser seems to think your marriage is just fine the way it is? What if they don't care to meet your needs? What if they don't even ask you what your needs are? What do you do if you've lost all the baby weight, gone out and lived your life, made your own friends, pursued your own hobbies, gotten a new career, and still... there's no sex, no intimacy, no warm snuggles on the couch, no conversation beyond the daily routine... What then? Maybe there are a few people here with spouses willing to work at it and take equal responsibility. But I know I have done all I can. When I leave, I'll be able to say that with no reservations. McRoomMate, I admire your optimism. But for too many of us, all hope is lost. We'll never have more than we have in front of us. In fact, we'll probably only have progressively less. Yes from the comment and studying many threads - the majority of SM here are because ONLY one spouse is trying and frustrated sometimes for years. Respect and admiration for your several attempts to try to make it work. And knowing when "enough is enough". I once asked a friend about divorcing and how do you know when you have tried enough to call it over? And he smiled and said "Well when you are dead that will be for sure." He is now happily divorced after many years of SM and dysfunction. |
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Post by lwoetin on Jul 26, 2017 3:12:50 GMT -5
I don't remember which link it was but it mentions the term sexual desire descrepancy. Those couples that are too far apart and score high on SDD will have a harder time to fix their marriage than those couples who aren't too far apart. I have no clue what a normal, intimate couple is but I know plenty of happy, loving couples who stay married. Both spouses will give and take.
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Post by WindSister on Jul 26, 2017 5:53:31 GMT -5
To go off what Baz was saying, that seems like a really important straight forward question to ask a spouse.
"Are you sexually attracted to me?"
If someone is sexually attracted to you, they have sex with you. You know it without even asking because your sex life is satisfying. And you catch them looking at you as if you are the greatest creature on earth. They look at you with a glimmer and a smirk, happy to see you, ready to devour you. Even after 3.5 years. Hoping it continues into and beyond year 4. My previous marriage it, this, was never there. I was sexless year one.
Just offering what I've learned since leaving. I get some may still be sexually attracted and if that's the case, there can be hope if they are willing to step up.
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Post by brian on Jul 26, 2017 6:34:14 GMT -5
Devils advocate here: what if instead of asking the refuser to chamge, we change. Not for our refusers sake but for ourselves. What if we took better care of ourselves, dropped those few pounds we carry around, updated the wardrobe, got a new haircut, take that trip, start that hobby. Forget the refuser for awhile. Focus on ourselves, our needs, our happiness. At some point the refuser might notice. And if they dont, fuck 'em. You will probably have attracted half a dozen new potential partners by the time the transformation is done. Maybe the change starts within us. Of course it is possible if a Refuser wants to change. But that is the issue, the vast majority of refusers don't give a flying fuck in hell how their behavior affects their spouses. Doing this right now myself. I'm doing what I'm doing for me. Not for her. Not for our relationship. Not for anybody else in this world. I'm living for me. |
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