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Post by wewbwb on Jul 23, 2017 15:28:46 GMT -5
Please. Everyone . Just. Stop. If you are nice, kind, compassionate , loving, funny, passionate and sincere you have the right body type. Everything else is just "stuff". Often out of your control. But being a selfish, fucktard is in your control. Love who you want. Be who you are. But don't be a dick. ( yes, I know plenty of women who are) You want a better self image? Work on being a better person (a daily struggle for me) These are all wonderful ways of saying "be nice" and that's not wrong to say that. But that isn't the issue that is actually being discussed here, whether or not it is wrong to be a good person. Everybody pretty much thinks so, and knows that, and is a way of changing the subject away from body weight, shape, health, and preferences. Being nice, kind, compassionate, loving, funny, passionate, and sincere has NOTHING to do with your body type. Some body types are much more strongly correlated with being attractive to more people, or sooner, than others --so it's not really right to say that if your goal is to be more a more attractive person physically - that whatever you look like is going to be equally likely or easy to attract a mate (if that's the goal). That's reality - it's not just stuff - it makes a difference, quite often. It opens doors and possibilities that might otherwise be shut. What's fucked is this ABSURD shaming of people like the OP (including self-shaming) who suck on these bromides while deflecting attention from what and whom they are attracted to because it doesn't correspond to whom or what they think should be correct. Suppose some people end up getting married to people they actually don't fancy, physically, but who are nice, attractive etc. Happened to a friend recently, where in the aftermath of the separation, the dude finally owned up to what he had always thought in their sexless marriage: which is that he liked her - loved her even - but wasn't attracted to her physically, but he thought love would be enough. It wasn't, and she endured a sexless marriage, in which his lack of attraction was demonstrated on a daily basis, for years. She was comfortable with her body, and indeed, I found her to be attractive. After the split, hearing that - she said she wished she'd have known it up front. She wouldn't have changed anything, but she would have been dealing from a position of knowledge and authenticity about the truth of their pairing. Forcing oneself to enact the behaviour of attraction when one isn't attracted, sounds pretty much like a recipe for a sexless marriage, to me. Actually , I am saying "Be nice to yourself . Be honest with yourself." Many of our self esteem issues stem from us being harder on ourselves than on someone else . So why do people get married to people they don't fancy? Self esteem issues or fear of judgment by others. "The women I like are out of my league " "I'm tired of being alone" "I could do worse" "She's a good person" "I'm not getting any younger " But if you are honest with yourself and are don't care about what others think , you will find someone who can love you for your self . Maybe it's just me, but I believe that true love starts with loving yourself . And many of us struggle with that . |
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Post by DryCreek on Jul 23, 2017 17:13:46 GMT -5
One last thing. Smile. Everyone becomes better looking when they smile. +1. I've got a lot riding on this principle. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2017 17:19:09 GMT -5
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Post by DryCreek on Jul 23, 2017 17:26:45 GMT -5
OK, well... maybe not everyone looks better smiling. ;-) |
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Post by bran127 on Jul 23, 2017 18:07:16 GMT -5
Different strokes for different folks. No need to feel like it is wrong to like what you like. Whatever you find attractive is important for you to find what you are looking for and what you need to be in fulfilling relationship. I would however not recommend Barbie. I hear she doesn't talk much and is pretty stiff 😁
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Post by WindSister on Jul 23, 2017 18:08:23 GMT -5
Please. Everyone . Just. Stop. If you are nice, kind, compassionate , loving, funny, passionate and sincere you have the right body type. Everything else is just "stuff". Often out of your control. But being a selfish, fucktard is in your control. Love who you want. Be who you are. But don't be a dick. ( yes, I know plenty of women who are) You want a better self image? Work on being a better person (a daily struggle for me) One last thing. Smile. Everyone becomes better looking when they smile. Side note: I personally never looked at porn as a reflection of reality . Seriously, plumbers NEVER show up that quickly . Love this as usual. Yup. Everyone gets to have preferences. Greatcoastal, I notice you explore this a lot. You really don't need to justify the kind of woman you are attracted to. It's ok. Just know women also have preferences. Sometimes two people jive well together, sometimes not. It's a tricky deal. Just know yourself and don't settle. We can't force attraction. Actually, you have a vision of "her" in your mind. I think this will work well for you. When I got clear what I wanted, things happened. I gave up everyone that didn't fit with no apology. You will find your way and you will be desired! Yes, it will rock your world. |
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Post by greatcoastal on Jul 23, 2017 18:50:42 GMT -5
Self body image is a tricky thing. For many years I was of the mindset "if my own husband doesn't want me who will?" I'm overweight, a plus size woman but I can still touch my toes, support my body weight with my arms, and do a cardio workout knowing my limits. So on that note I'm now of the mindset "This is who I am take it or leave it". There are a lot of men that aren't attracted to a woman my size but there are enough men that are. My advice is to find confidence in who you are and what you have to offer. I have been with and attracted to men bigger and smaller than me. Honestly looks and chemistry are just the initial part of attraction but for the attraction to be sustained it comes down to how someone treats you and the cultivation of a connection. Thanks, I can relate to this in different ways. Some clear, some still very undecided. The struggle is real. Yes it is a very tricky thing. Especially when the bulk of your thinking has been manipulated, and controlled, by a spouse who treats you as un-worthy. Are there a lot of woman that aren't attracted to a man my size, but there are enough woman that are?. That's a big part of this discussion. Also getting a clue as to what these woman are going to be like. Something good to know, since I have to do the pursuing. So this is where the confidence in who you are, and what you have to offer, takes a nose dive. It needs affirmation in order to work. Am I wrong about that? Words, and actions, not just thoughts. This is where the "you have to kiss frogs in order to find your prince" concept comes in. I get that too. But I am talking about "the desire stage". It's like the FWB. Oh I've got the friend part down. It's the benefits part that has been so damaged, mentally. Back to "the struggle" of knowing what kind of woman is going to find me attractive. It just feels like one of the hugest obstacles. Maybe it's a stage? It's hard to see how self confidence is going to fix this part. Trial and error, maybe? I am concerned what to much error will do to me. I am concerned about to much friend stage. it's like I am going to need a wing man or lessons!! "Honestly looks and chemistry are just the initial part of attraction but for the attraction to be sustained it comes down to how someone treats you and the cultivation of a connection." I like this and I agree with you.  This is where I have been respected, treated with dignity, liked as a friend, shared compliments, done acts of service etc.. all of that first. Then to get confirmation about looks and chemistry.....things end abruptly. The total opposite of what you are describing. You walk away with the "nice guys finish last feeling". |
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Post by greatcoastal on Jul 23, 2017 19:40:11 GMT -5
Please. Everyone . Just. Stop. If you are nice, kind, compassionate , loving, funny, passionate and sincere you have the right body type. Everything else is just "stuff". Often out of your control. But being a selfish, fucktard is in your control. Love who you want. Be who you are. But don't be a dick. ( yes, I know plenty of women who are) You want a better self image? Work on being a better person (a daily struggle for me) One last thing. Smile. Everyone becomes better looking when they smile. Side note: I personally never looked at porn as a reflection of reality . Seriously, plumbers NEVER show up that quickly . Love this as usual. Yup. Everyone gets to have preferences. Greatcoastal, I notice you explore this a lot. You really don't need to justify the kind of woman you are attracted to. It's ok. Just know women also have preferences. Sometimes two people jive well together, sometimes not. It's a tricky deal. Just know yourself and don't settle. We can't force attraction. Actually, you have a vision of "her" in your mind. I think this will work well for you. When I got clear what I wanted, things happened. I gave up everyone that didn't fit with no apology. You will find your way and you will be desired! Yes, it will rock your world. Yea, perhaps I do explore this a lot. Perhaps it's a stage? It's a hell of a difficult one for me. Especially with years of isolation, being the "good ,church going, bible believing, home schooler, stay at home dad". It's like being dropped off on a foreign planet. This is my outlet as these "concerns" come to me. Let me try to put it this way. (I struggle with the right words) I do have a vision. More of a "what I don't want, than what I want" vision. Not way older than me, not way younger than me. Not obese, not a foot taller than me. Not a smoker, not a woman loaded down with little kids.. etc... That leaves a pretty wide field. But you see, I have no clue if I can be picky or not. The last confirmation I have had of being desired goes back to 1988. That's a lot of "nothing to go on" while waiting, or knowing when Ms right comes along. (maybe I said it better that time?) That may sound like an angry statement. It's not meant to be. Thank you very much for your uplifting spirit and words! |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2017 19:46:07 GMT -5
When I'm feeling sane and healthy, I believe there is someone for everyone. Probably more than one "someone."
@elle, for instance - you say you like tall men. I tend to prefer it if they *aren't* too tall. I'm only 5'2" - so a man does not have to be very tall to be taller than me! And I hate running to keep up with people who have long legs, and straining my neck and back looking up all the time.
But, if I met somebody hugely tall, and I happened to feel that chemistry - I'd go with the chemistry.
I think that's what I will have to do, really. I've tried, unsuccessfully, to make things work with men with whom I did *not* have chemistry. Maybe that's a life lesson for me. How many times do I have to date a good, decent man - without the chemistry - and try to force myself? You would really think I would get it by now - that does. Not. Work.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2017 21:38:30 GMT -5
When I'm feeling sane and healthy, I believe there is someone for everyone. Probably more than one "someone." @elle , for instance - you say you like tall men. I tend to prefer it if they *aren't* too tall. I'm only 5'2" - so a man does not have to be very tall to be taller than me! And I hate running to keep up with people who have long legs, and straining my neck and back looking up all the time. But, if I met somebody hugely tall, and I happened to feel that chemistry - I'd go with the chemistry.I think that's what I will have to do, really. I've tried, unsuccessfully, to make things work with men with whom I did *not* have chemistry. Maybe that's a life lesson for me. How many times do I have to date a good, decent man - without the chemistry - and try to force myself? You would really think I would get it by now - that does. Not. Work.Exactly this! Although I wouldn't gravitate towards a shorter man, if I got the chance to know him and the chemistry was spot on, I'd give it a chance. I think, in the end, you just have to be in someone's presence to know whether you like them or not and whether they like you. And, just because someone checks your body type or size box does NOT mean the chemistry will be there. I've met plenty of tall guys who were a$$holes. Just sayin'  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2017 21:40:12 GMT -5
One last thing. Smile. Everyone becomes better looking when they smile. +1. I've got a lot riding on this principle. Brains over beauty all day long, DC. ;-) |
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Post by greatcoastal on Jul 23, 2017 22:34:48 GMT -5
When I'm feeling sane and healthy, I believe there is someone for everyone. Probably more than one "someone." @elle , for instance - you say you like tall men. I tend to prefer it if they *aren't* too tall. I'm only 5'2" - so a man does not have to be very tall to be taller than me! And I hate running to keep up with people who have long legs, and straining my neck and back looking up all the time. But, if I met somebody hugely tall, and I happened to feel that chemistry - I'd go with the chemistry.I think that's what I will have to do, really. I've tried, unsuccessfully, to make things work with men with whom I did *not* have chemistry. Maybe that's a life lesson for me. How many times do I have to date a good, decent man - without the chemistry - and try to force myself? You would really think I would get it by now - that does. Not. Work.Exactly this! Although I wouldn't gravitate towards a shorter man, if I got the chance to know him and the chemistry was spot on, I'd give it a chance. I think, in the end, you just have to be in someone's presence to know whether you like them or not and whether they like you. And, just because someone checks your body type or size box does NOT mean the chemistry will be there. I've met plenty of tall guys who were a$$holes. Just sayin' Chemistry- "you keep using that word. I do not think it means, what you think it means" Chemistry? Is that a code word for you ladies? Would you be so kind as to elaborate? Or use a different word? I used the word "desire" many times. I hope it was correct and fitting. Thanks. |
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Post by JMX on Jul 23, 2017 23:07:38 GMT -5
Hmm... I hesitate to comment because, let's face it - WE would not have any chemistry. So calling that out first of all - we don't even like each other. However, I respect this post and hope you don't mind if I comment.
With that being said, I don't know. I will admit - I will look twice at a hot, tall blondish guy from 20-49. However, it's a fleeting attraction. It is gone by the time I realize I did a double take.
The stranger that holds my interest is a guy, most probably outside of "my normal gawk" that is laughing or doing something interesting and not even aware that I am sizing him up. It's a laugh at an inside joke I wish I was a part of, it's a twinkle in his eye - makes me think he enjoys his life. I am attracted by his charm and charisma. Those are the guys that actually HOLD my attention. I literally stand still, stare and study them. Those strangers usually encompass all shapes, sizes (most - not all - to be honest) and walks of life. Skinny, fit (not too fit), dad bods, overweight - I am equal opportunity with the right personality.
To me, the answer to your question is more - what do I bring to the table for someone else (the ENTIRE package) and not what do they bring to the table for me? Then, letting that shit go, living your life based on your interests and going for it. Maybe some stranger will stand there gawking at you too, because you have an uncanny love of your own life, even by yourself.
Even though you DO know what turns you on from afar - do you know what turns you on in life?
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Post by greatcoastal on Jul 23, 2017 23:30:53 GMT -5
greatcoastal (And everyone else) Let's look at this another way. Let's say this one of your daughters . What would you tell HER? I'm willing to bet it would be more along the lines of "if they can't see what you have to offer, then fuck em, you're wonderful as you are." So why would your advice love and support to her be different than to yourself? Go ahead, I'll wait.... Actually , I won't . I have laundry to do. Because you see her value as higher then you see your own. That is your starting point, go from there . (Therapist #3, thank you again ) I like this question, and I appreciate you bringing it to the table. my daughter are in there young teens. They have started "blooming". I have already had conversations with them about who they "desire" sexually. They are still talking about the other girls, mostly. "She thinks she so hot. She thinks everyone likes her. She wears those shorts with the back going way up her crack, she looks like a slut. So many people don't like her at all." Of course I am going to be biased... I'm her dad!! But I have eyes! I ask my daughter, " that one? her?" Then I tell her. "you know your thinner than her, you've got more chest than her, your hair far exceeds hers. You don't need to dress like that to get attention. I see those boys watching you as you walk by. You don't notice that?" She claims not to notice. I'm afraid my advice to my daughters is going to be the opposite. "Those guys are going to go wild over you. you make sure you get to know their morals and values too" Fortunately I see that already in my daughter's choices of friends. Not "clicky" girls but girls who make good friends. As far as myself? My stbx's control is crumbling, my strength and knowledge is growing. the playing field is leveling. Positives of the divorce. And you are right. Placing my own value my own self worth higher than where my stbx, is a major turning point. Here's the other part. The "revelation". This next step feels like a big open wound. It's going to take more than just "heal thy self" It's going to need knowing that I was and am desired. Not by just anybody. Someone who I find attractive, and desire them too. I'm hoping it's a stage. Another difficult one. Almost as hard as deciding and getting divorced. PS: I just reread this. Sorry if I went way off on my daughters. Did you mean if my daughters where my age? That would change things. |
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Post by WindSister on Jul 24, 2017 7:34:54 GMT -5
greatcoastal (And everyone else) Let's look at this another way. Let's say this one of your daughters . What would you tell HER? I'm willing to bet it would be more along the lines of "if they can't see what you have to offer, then fuck em, you're wonderful as you are." So why would your advice love and support to her be different than to yourself? Go ahead, I'll wait.... Actually , I won't . I have laundry to do. Because you see her value as higher then you see your own. That is your starting point, go from there . (Therapist #3, thank you again ) I like this question, and I appreciate you bringing it to the table. my daughter are in there young teens. They have started "blooming". I have already had conversations with them about who they "desire" sexually. They are still talking about the other girls, mostly. "She thinks she so hot. She thinks everyone likes her. She wears those shorts with the back going way up her crack, she looks like a slut. So many people don't like her at all." Of course I am going to be biased... I'm her dad!! But I have eyes! I ask my daughter, " that one? her?" Then I tell her. "you know your thinner than her, you've got more chest than her, your hair far exceeds hers. You don't need to dress like that to get attention. I see those boys watching you as you walk by. You don't notice that?" She claims not to notice. Do we need to be thinner to be better? Do we even need to "be better" than others at all? To be worthy ourselves? I wish we could see more women empowering each other instead of cutting each other down. My message to your daughters is it doesn't matter what she wears. Or What size other girls are. Or what they do. Don't worry about them. Worry about yourself. Who are you? What do you Like? Just be the best you and remember kindness is the most beautiful. Be kind to that girl even if you don't like her shorts. Don't judge her. Just know yourself. Sorry for the soap box moment. Everyone has preferences but at the same time, those preferences don't make others "wrong." We don't have to hate things we don't prefer, right? You don't have to better than anyone to be worthy. |
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