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Post by carl on Jun 28, 2017 18:12:25 GMT -5
I haven't posted her before so go easy on me. It is hard to ask the obvious. But isn't someone who constantly declines sex rejecting their partner as a lover and just staying with them selfishly. Doesn't that give the reflected partner the right to find another lover ? I can't help thinking that a lot of those who decline sex are having or would possibly have sex with someone else ? Some of the comments sound as if people just resign themselves to what is awful and very unfair treatment. The pain of suffering that constant rejection is crazy. I have felt that pain and anguish for more than ten years, since I was in my twenties and married. I have always been a very physical guy and had no problems making loads of great friends. Now though I am "married" I feel like an underclass, trapped, deceived, rejected and unknown to the world. I worry that one can over think it, not see the woods for the trees - surely a partner who declines sex constantly is just rejecting you pure and simple. Wouldn't it make sense to start spending time around other people, relax a bit and make a few friends ?
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Post by bballgirl on Jun 28, 2017 18:55:58 GMT -5
I agree with you. I was in prison 23 years holding the keys but I never said to my jailor, if you don't start having sex I'm going to leave. However one day I just left. Nobody should rob someone of their sexuality.
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Post by beachguy on Jun 29, 2017 9:28:02 GMT -5
If your partner refuses to take care of you then most likely someone else eventually will. One way or the other. The fact that our culture refuses to accept that simple fact is why I would never marry again. It's a lousy contract.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2017 10:38:40 GMT -5
I haven't posted her before so go easy on me. It is hard to ask the obvious. But isn't someone who constantly declines sex rejecting their partner as a lover and just staying with them selfishly. Doesn't that give the reflected partner the right to find another lover ? I can't help thinking that a lot of those who decline sex are having or would possibly have sex with someone else ? Some of the comments sound as if people just resign themselves to what is awful and very unfair treatment. The pain of suffering that constant rejection is crazy. I have felt that pain and anguish for more than ten years, since I was in my twenties and married. I have always been a very physical guy and had no problems making loads of great friends. Now though I am "married" I feel like an underclass, trapped, deceived, rejected and unknown to the world. I worry that one can over think it, not see the woods for the trees - surely a partner who declines sex constantly is just rejecting you pure and simple. Wouldn't it make sense to start spending time around other people, relax a bit and make a few friends ? 1. But isn't someone who constantly declines sex rejecting their partner as a lover and just staying with them selfishly? Yes, a refuser is extremely selfish. They are rejecting the person they promised to honor and cherish.2. Doesn't that give the rejected partner the right to find another lover ? I believe it does, after a reasonable amount of time. Also, it gives the rejected spouse a right to end the relationship.3. I can't help thinking that a lot of those who decline sex are having or would possibly have sex with someone else? I have wondered this myself. My refuser did not, but I have heard of some that are.
4. Some of the comments sound as if people just resign themselves to what is awful and very unfair treatment. Yes, many of us do. Some of us have gotten out. And many of us stay here to listen and support people like you who choose to stay. You choose to stay because you are an exceptionally good person. When/if you decide to escape, we will be here to advise and support you then as well.5. The pain of suffering that constant rejection is crazy. Yes, it is horrible. It is devastating to one's self-esteem. You think there must be something wrong with you for your spouse to reject you in such an intimate manner. You try & try until you you are at your wit's end.Please realize that you are among friends now. All of us, both male & female, have been where you are and have walked the path you are on. We know how this feels, and we can help you process your feelings. Don't hesitate to write about your feelings, both positive and negative. Your feelings are not good or bad, they just are. Keep on posting & read other threads. You will find stories that are strangely similar to your own.
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Post by bballgirl on Jun 29, 2017 10:51:20 GMT -5
flashjohn said "you choose to stay because you are an exceptionally good person" Shouldn't we be good to ourselves? We are typically kind people and our kindness gets taken advantage of by takers who see that kindness for weakness. As well there is an optimum time to divorce, sort of like when NASA launches rockets and space shuttles. For everyone that launch window is different depending on so many variables with kids, money, etc. Getting into the spaceship and launching also takes courage, not everyone has it. If someone is unhappy with their life then it's up to them to change it, no one else will do that for you. Just some thoughts that were bouncing around in my head after reading what flashjohn wrote.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2017 11:01:56 GMT -5
Shouldn't we be good to ourselves? We are typically kind people and our kindness gets taken advantage of by takers who see that kindness for weakness. You are exactly right bballgirl! It took me a heck of a long time to realize that.
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Post by bballgirl on Jun 29, 2017 11:03:54 GMT -5
Shouldn't we be good to ourselves? We are typically kind people and our kindness gets taken advantage of by takers who see that kindness for weakness. You are exactly right bballgirl! It took me a heck of a long time to realize that. Me too but better late than never.
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Post by Apocrypha on Jun 29, 2017 12:40:04 GMT -5
I haven't posted her before so go easy on me. It is hard to ask the obvious. But isn't someone who constantly declines sex rejecting their partner as a lover and just staying with them selfishly. Doesn't that give the reflected partner the right to find another lover ? I can't help thinking that a lot of those who decline sex are having or would possibly have sex with someone else ? Some of the comments sound as if people just resign themselves to what is awful and very unfair treatment. The pain of suffering that constant rejection is crazy. I have felt that pain and anguish for more than ten years, since I was in my twenties and married. I have always been a very physical guy and had no problems making loads of great friends. Now though I am "married" I feel like an underclass, trapped, deceived, rejected and unknown to the world. I worry that one can over think it, not see the woods for the trees - surely a partner who declines sex constantly is just rejecting you pure and simple. Wouldn't it make sense to start spending time around other people, relax a bit and make a few friends ? 1. isn't someone who constantly declines sex rejecting their partner as a lover and just staying with them selfishly.
If sexual intimacy and romantic investment is a defining aspect of marriage, and you do not have a sexual relationship with your partner (whether you are averse to sex with that partner or being rejected), then a fundamental and defining aspect of the marriage is missing. You are not living as a married couple. You both are staying in that situation, for likely similar reasons. You don't want to give up the other benefits that you associate with marriage, as opposed to being authentic with each other and others about your relationship. I don't think that just one of you is being selfish. You both are willingly making the same choice - to pose your relationship as a marriage. 2. Doesn't that give the reflected partner the right to find another lover?The right? You can dance around the ethics of it, but it's not really going to make much difference. Ethically, having chosen to stay in your unsatisfying celibate relationship together, you have tacitly agreed to a new deal. You both choose celibacy rather than involve another person. If one of you abruptly changes that deal and does not inform the other of the consequence, both upcoming and as it happens, then effectively, you are breaking whatever the new deal is that you agreed to, and that you've been calling a marriage. So, if you are weathering your mutual celibacy in misery together, it's still a choice made together - a mutual sacrifice. If one of you misrepresents your behaviour, it's going to be a bad scene. I think it's ethical to be authentic about the situation - having a real talk about it and its consequences. I think it's ethical, if you do not wish to be celibate and do intend to find a lover, to tell your partner that you intend to seek one, and to ask that partner how much they wish to be involved in that process, as long as both of you are willing. This gives your partner an informed choice as to how they wish to proceed, with a clear view of imminent consequences. Polyamory so you are no longer celibate, or the marriage formally ends. 3. those who decline sex are having or would possibly have sex with someone else ?Yes. That is a frequent outcome. Most often, following a separation, the refusing spouse hooks up pretty fast with someone else. In some cases (I suspect more than is often thought), that happens during the marriage.
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Post by baza on Jun 29, 2017 20:16:50 GMT -5
"2. Doesn't that give the reflected partner the right to find another lover?" You appear to be framing this in moral terms of right / wrong. That ain't going to help bring this situation to resolution. If you can take a step back from this situation, let all the emotional air out of the balloon, suspend any judgements about who is wrong / right, who's at fault / faultless etc and evaluate the situation on the facts in front of you, then you have a chance of bringing this to resolution. Fact - your missus doesn't want to fuck you. Fact - you have thus far gone along with her view, reluctantly perhaps, resentfully perhaps, but you HAVE gone along with it which makes you complicit. Fact - the choice as to whether you continue to go along with it is entirely on you. The problem here may well have been started by your missus (and she owns that) but it has been continued by you (and you own that). If you end up choosing to go outside the marriage then you'll own that too. If you choose to end the circus, then you'll own that as well. The resolution to this situation is entirely in your hands Brother carl .
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Post by Venus Erotes on Jun 29, 2017 21:44:01 GMT -5
I have nothing more to add. You've heard from the best of the best in this post already. flashjohn, bballgirl, baza : all even sounding boards. Altho baza I do miss seeing tread your own path. Yes it's under your profile pic, but it's not the same
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Post by carl on Jun 30, 2017 18:19:57 GMT -5
The reason I have stayed all this time is to look after my children. Life for my kids with just my wife would be thoroughly miserable for them. The strange thing is that She would go to pieces if I left and she doesn't have the ability to look after my children alone even with my help if we separated. Believe me it would not be a pretty site. She is not the responsible type. And that will never change. I would be worried. So I am trapped - don't think anyone would leave their kids to suffer like that. But as you all say that is just how it is. On balance I suppose my suffering has driven me to meet some amazing people who talented enough not to be afraid of my situation.
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Post by baza on Jun 30, 2017 18:38:47 GMT -5
This reads like you can see only two options for the kids *if you divorced* #1 - where the kids go with you. #2 - where the kids go with her. In most jurisdictions, the truth is somewhere in between those two extreme positions.
If her issues are as bad as you say they are - and you can prove it - the custody issue would fall in your favour, like mebbe 70/30 or similar. And, if she really is an incompetent parent, you'd be doing the kids a favour. Consulting a lawyer in your jurisdiction would get you relevant information.
In a wider context however, you might do well to try and avoid this *absolute* thinking - that something has to be "entirely this" or "entirely that".
You are NOT "trapped". What you are is is a bloke facing very difficult choices, with the options all being quite difficult and challenging. But unfortunately, the fact that the choices are all very difficult and challenging does NOT get you a pass on having to choose. You don't get a pass. No-one gets a pass.
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Post by carl on Jun 30, 2017 18:55:05 GMT -5
I cannot rely on any court or lawyer to protect my children. It might work or it might not. It's not completely reliable. If someone wants to cause trouble they can do it and if I went down those lines nothing could protect me or my children. You cannot imagine the trouble. If I am around, then people are happy and I know My kids are safe.
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Post by lwoetin on Jul 1, 2017 19:41:48 GMT -5
surely a partner who declines sex constantly is just rejecting you pure and simple. Wouldn't it make sense to start spending time around other people, relax a bit and make a few friends ? yes it does make sense. It's hard to relax if your wife won't stop ordering you to do things. Does she have any faults she can work on too? She won't talk so much if she has lots of work to do.
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Post by baza on Jul 2, 2017 18:45:48 GMT -5
I cannot rely on any court or lawyer to protect my children. It might work or it might not. It's not completely reliable. If someone wants to cause trouble they can do it and if I went down those lines nothing could protect me or my children. You cannot imagine the trouble. If I am around, then people are happy and I know My kids are safe. "It might work". Could a case be made then, to see a lawyer in your jurisdiction to check out this option - as a theory ?
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