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Post by DryCreek on Jul 3, 2017 23:44:55 GMT -5
To cut to the chase here, all that has to happen for a refusives excuse/reason to be valid is for you to swallow it. It doesn't matter how fanciful, or what absolute bullshit it might be, or what an outright lie it is, or how genuine and real it might be. For this reason, we are ironically all co-conspirators in the crime against us. We're only the cover story, or the driver, but in the interest of not rocking the boat we give credibility to their bad behavior. Like bribing a petulant child, we reward bad behavior and then regret what that creates. Mea culpa. Had we known enough to recognize it and have the fortitude to nip it in the bud, most of us would not be here. But that is a very hard thing to do in the moment.
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Post by baza on Jul 4, 2017 2:40:44 GMT -5
I'd suggest none of us attempted to "nip it in the bud". And that choice, made years ago, results in the consequences we have today.
And, whatever choice we make in this regard today, we will wear the consequences tomorrow.
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Post by McRoomMate on Jul 4, 2017 4:25:36 GMT -5
"2. Doesn't that give the reflected partner the right to find another lover?" You appear to be framing this in moral terms of right / wrong. That ain't going to help bring this situation to resolution. If you can take a step back from this situation, let all the emotional air out of the balloon, suspend any judgements about who is wrong / right, who's at fault / faultless etc and evaluate the situation on the facts in front of you, then you have a chance of bringing this to resolution. Fact - your missus doesn't want to fuck you. Fact - you have thus far gone along with her view, reluctantly perhaps, resentfully perhaps, but you HAVE gone along with it which makes you complicit. Fact - the choice as to whether you continue to go along with it is entirely on you. The problem here may well have been started by your missus (and she owns that) but it has been continued by you (and you own that). If you end up choosing to go outside the marriage then you'll own that too. If you choose to end the circus, then you'll own that as well. The resolution to this situation is entirely in your hands Brother carl . Absolutely, at the end of the day it is all about OWNERSHIP - and the vicious cycle of Hell that has no escape is the SEARCH for MORAL JUSTIFICATION and who is right and who is wrong. The second I stopped justifying and blaming - anyone - was the start of solution. Do I feel guilty and will there always be a taint of pain and sorrow from this SM experience - of course there will but life goes on and scars do not juts form on the skin but the soul too.
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Post by McRoomMate on Jul 4, 2017 4:28:49 GMT -5
I haven't posted her before so go easy on me. It is hard to ask the obvious. But isn't someone who constantly declines sex rejecting their partner as a lover and just staying with them selfishly. Doesn't that give the reflected partner the right to find another lover ? I can't help thinking that a lot of those who decline sex are having or would possibly have sex with someone else ? Some of the comments sound as if people just resign themselves to what is awful and very unfair treatment. The pain of suffering that constant rejection is crazy. I have felt that pain and anguish for more than ten years, since I was in my twenties and married. I have always been a very physical guy and had no problems making loads of great friends. Now though I am "married" I feel like an underclass, trapped, deceived, rejected and unknown to the world. I worry that one can over think it, not see the woods for the trees - surely a partner who declines sex constantly is just rejecting you pure and simple. Wouldn't it make sense to start spending time around other people, relax a bit and make a few friends ? It is interesting that everyone who comes here looking for answers speculate their partner has a problem - low libido, medical/mental, asexual, gay, drug/porn... or some other addiction, etc, but the one thing they can't consider is that their spouse is having sex with other people and basically just doesn't want to have sex with you. It seems like a taboo subject here. And more than once it has turned out true and the person is always devastated. I have a thought on this, always presume they are getting their needs met somewhere. From that you start to think reasons don't matter. Absolutely @thecelt nailed the "Forbidden Subject" - The SM is SPECIFIC to the H or W not the world in general. As baza said it don't matter really because the facts are what they are.
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Post by northstarmom on Jul 4, 2017 8:41:21 GMT -5
" And more than once it has turned out true and the person is always devastated. I have a thought on this, always presume they are getting their needs met somewhere. From that you start to think reasons don't matter."
I wasn't devastated, I was relieved. I'd thought he was getting Alzheimers, and I'd have to spend years taking care of him, a man who felt like a mere roommate. Learning that he had another lover and at age 62 thought he'd fathered her child was icing on the cake. No one could blame me for breaking up what probably had looked to others as a happy home. I also had no guilt about starting to date and live life exactly as I pleased.
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Post by beachguy on Jul 4, 2017 9:00:43 GMT -5
^^^ good point northstarmom. If I had caught my wife cheating early on I would have salvaged my life, and without guilt
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Post by greatcoastal on Jul 4, 2017 9:10:11 GMT -5
^^^ My therapist asked me about two years ago, " how would you feel if you found out your wife was having an affair? I responded, "that would be great, at least that would answer a lot of things. Good for her, at least one of us would be happy".
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Post by carl on Jul 4, 2017 20:42:57 GMT -5
I haven't posted her before so go easy on me. It is hard to ask the obvious. But isn't someone who constantly declines sex rejecting their partner as a lover and just staying with them selfishly. Doesn't that give the reflected partner the right to find another lover ? I can't help thinking that a lot of those who decline sex are having or would possibly have sex with someone else ? Some of the comments sound as if people just resign themselves to what is awful and very unfair treatment. The pain of suffering that constant rejection is crazy. I have felt that pain and anguish for more than ten years, since I was in my twenties and married. I have always been a very physical guy and had no problems making loads of great friends. Now though I am "married" I feel like an underclass, trapped, deceived, rejected and unknown to the world. I worry that one can over think it, not see the woods for the trees - surely a partner who declines sex constantly is just rejecting you pure and simple. Wouldn't it make sense to start spending time around other people, relax a bit and make a few friends ? It is interesting that everyone who comes here looking for answers speculate their partner has a problem - low libido, medical/mental, asexual, gay, drug/porn... or some other addiction, etc, but the one thing they can't consider is that their spouse is having sex with other people and basically just doesn't want to have sex with you. It seems like a taboo subject here. And more than once it has turned out true and the person is always devastated. I have a thought on this, always presume they are getting their needs met somewhere. From that you start to think reasons don't matter. Yeah, that's got to be true sometimes. But decline or refuse your spouse AND sleep around - that's really really corrupt ! ! and I just don't think people are that inconsistent. I mean if someone is randy, I think that they tend to to be randy or enjoy sex with more people (potentially) but if they are a bit of a lacking sexually then I think they are like that with everyone. Take other characteristics - say if someone is boring, most people find them boring too. If my wife is having hot sex with someone else it would be a blinking miracle..... don't even
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Post by northstarmom on Jul 5, 2017 6:37:56 GMT -5
My ex had been totally ignoring me sexually for years yet thought he had fathered a child in Asia. When we divorced, the child was 3 and my ex was 63.
There is a refuser who posts here who also has posted about being tempted to have sex with an acquaintance. Shs spends her time writing steamy romances. She considers herself low libido. She has complained about her husband's lack of romance. Seems she is not turned on by him. But the idea of sex with others does turn her on.
There are plenty of people who choose partners they are not sexually attracted to. They may be sexually attracted to people who are unsuitable such as being cheaters, irresponsible or not being the type of partners their family would approve. They may be attracted to a partner's wallet or ability to parent, and feel no sexual desire for that person. Meanwhile, they feel strong desire for others and enjoy passionate sex with those people while enjoying the financial and other comforts of marriage.
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Post by Apocrypha on Jul 6, 2017 12:32:34 GMT -5
Just adding to the chorus about labouring to discover, and solve, reasons for my partner not wanting sex with me. The reasons, in the end, don't matter. What's more: critical distance on the relationship - like maybe one or two years past separation - will bring additional perspective that's impossible within the relationship. It's unlikely that even your best efforts to understand why will bring you the clarity that a few years of reflection will.
Mrs Apocrypha thought herself aesexual when that was later shown to be clearly not the case. She clung to that explanation even with the most obvious tests and proof staring her in the face, I think, because it gave her a MORAL argument for having left the marriage.
So much of the wrangling about "why?" that surrounds the furball of a dysfunctional marriage is about assigning moral responsibility. At the end of it though, there's little comfort in being "in the right". Both parties will still cling to a moral justification, and everyone in the vicinity will either view the situation as a toxic cloud that they want no part of, or they will adopt the expected supporting roles that they feel duty-bound to adopt, irrespective of facts. So, taking a moral high ground doesn't amount to much, compared to the years and effort invested in seeking it.
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Post by shamwow on Jul 6, 2017 13:11:24 GMT -5
Just adding to the chorus about labouring to discover, and solve, reasons for my partner not wanting sex with me. The reasons, in the end, don't matter. What's more: critical distance on the relationship - like maybe one or two years past separation - will bring additional perspective that's impossible within the relationship. It's unlikely that even your best efforts to understand why will bring you the clarity that a few years of reflection will. Mrs Apocrypha thought herself aesexual when that was later shown to be clearly not the case. She clung to that explanation even with the most obvious tests and proof staring her in the face, I think, because it gave her a MORAL argument for having left the marriage. So much of the wrangling about "why?" that surrounds the furball of a dysfunctional marriage is about assigning moral responsibility. At the end of it though, there's little comfort in being "in the right". Both parties will still cling to a moral justification, and everyone in the vicinity will either view the situation as a toxic cloud that they want no part of, or they will adopt the expected supporting roles that they feel duty-bound to adopt, irrespective of facts. So, taking a moral high ground doesn't amount to much, compared to the years and effort invested in seeking it. I would argue that often the answer of why simply can't be answered because your partner has no idea why themselves. I haven't had much distance to reflect, but in the end, I hope she lives a long and happy life as a closet asexual or even as a nympho who just doesn't want me. She won't be making me miserable anymore. I know the "why" on that one...because we were together.
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Post by greatcoastal on Dec 18, 2018 6:43:12 GMT -5
^^^ My therapist asked me about two years ago, " how would you feel if you found out your wife was having an affair? I responded, "that would be great, at least that would answer a lot of things. Good for her, at least one of us would be happy". Now...with another year and a half under my belt.... I can add a whole lot more to that answer. My W. was having an affair. Her affair is with money power and control. Her affair was with greysexuality. ( having sex to procreate , and never needing it again) Her affair is with her needs and her needs only. Her affair is with denial that anything can be her fault. Her affair is with DARVO. (avoiding and reversing things) Her affair is with the children. Getting self gratification by having them comply to doing things her way, and her way only. That is crumbling more and more as they are adults and reaching adulthood. Her affair is with her work, her college, her degrees, the people she is in charge of, her title, her status. She received the joy and satisfaction with work instead of receiving it in sex and intimacy with a spouse. Her affair is with lies. Hiding behind a false mask for decades. Her affair was with her daddy. ( not sexually) Instead her daddy lived with us in his last 12 yrs. My W. was like a little spoiled brat who lived with her parents, and was always getting things done her way through manipulation. Her affair was with triangulation. By bringing her daddy (or the older teens) into the relationship, she used them as two against one. Driving the concept of two in a marriage further and further apart. Her affair was doing everything in her power to NOT submit, to not give up any control, to not have to be vulnerable, to not have to accept that others have ways of doing things that are just as good as hers, or better. Dear carl , my conclusion was , " we were setting a horrible example for our children of what a marriage should be. There was no more intimacy, giving and receiving going on. " By talking with several attorneys I learned that I could easily have my children (and the dog) 1/2 the time. Far better than having zero influence and no voice. I could then offer them an alternative. Show them " my way", better ways, give them and me a voice. To finally let them see that dad was nothing like mom made him out to be. They also are learning to not pair up with a manipulative controller like their mom, and to thine own self be true.
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