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Post by choosinghappy on Jun 20, 2017 13:40:10 GMT -5
In one of bballgirl 's always helpful responses, she asked me if I was still attracted to my H and if I was still in love with him. The first question was easy to answer - yes I still find him attractive. But the second one gave me pause. I responded by saying that I certainly still love H but that I no longer know how to distinguish between loving him and being in love with him. I wondered if it's even possible to still be in love with someone who does not desire you. As for me, I still desire sex and intimacy with him - is that the definition of being in love? I'm hoping all you smart people can help me out with some understandable distinctions between loving a spouse and being IN love with them because I just can't see it clearly anymore. |
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Post by Dan on Jun 20, 2017 14:27:28 GMT -5
I'll help you answer your question by asking few different ones:
- Can you envision living the rest of your life with your husband?
- Do you LIKE what you envision, when you do that?
Check as many boxes as you'd like:
Will there be enough ☐ passion, ☐ respect, ☐ fun, ☐ desire, ☐ whimsy, ☐ trust, ☐ honesty, ☐ vulnerability, ☐ good sex, ☐ sense of adventure, ☐ sense of fulfillment, ☐ hope, ☐ true intimacy, ☐ happiness, ☐ willingness to tough it out in the hard times, ☐ willingness to embrace his rough edges for the "rest of your life together"?
If you checked enough of those boxes to stay in the marriage until the end, then you are in love with him enough to say you are "in love" with him.
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Post by choosinghappy on Jun 20, 2017 14:38:51 GMT -5
Ducking your question by instead asking few different ones: - Can you envision living the rest of your life with your husband? - Do you LIKE what you envision, when you do that? Check as many boxes as you'd like: Will there be enough ☐ passion, ☐ respect, ☐ fun, ☐ desire, ☐ whimsy, ☐ trust, ☐ honesty, ☐ vulnerability, ☐ good sex, ☐ sense of adventure, ☐ sense of fulfillment, ☐ hope, ☐ true intimacy, ☐ happiness, ☐ willingness to tough it out in the hard times, ☐ willingness to embrace his rough edges for the "rest of your life together"? If you checked enough of those boxes to stay in the marriage until the end, then you are "in love" with him enough to say you are in love with him. I guess I have to determine for myself which number of those checked boxes is to truly enough to quality as "enough". In case you are interested, the number I can definitively check is 6. Technically less than half. However, for me quality of those 6 may be more important than quantity. I can find fun and a sense of adventure with friends. I can find passion and great sex with someone else if I choose to do so. Is this optimal? No. But is it sustainable? That I don't yet know. To answer your questions, YES I can envision the rest of my life with him and some parts of that are happy and some parts are not. The parts that are not are unlikely to change much, if at all. But do the parts that are happy outweigh the others? I appreciate the food for thought. |
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Post by Dan on Jun 20, 2017 14:52:23 GMT -5
I will distill my point further: if you have a favorite restaurant, you keep going back because you love it, right? No, it's actually the other way around: you can tell that you love it because you keep going back. So the question about your marriage is a false one: do I love him enough to stay? My point is if you want to stay THEN you call tell that you love him. I guess I have to determine for myself which number of those checked boxes is to truly enough to quality as "enough". Yes. That is exactly my point. |
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Post by beachguy on Jun 20, 2017 14:56:09 GMT -5
My assessment of the idea of "loving" verses "in love with" has a lot to do with where you are on the SM curve. If you are at the point where you no longer sexually desire your spouse, and you would not enjoy sex with them even if "Some Miracle Occurred" and they found some interest, then it is often stated here that you are "no longer IN love with them". This is just my assessment of the use of the terms, as best I understand them. I didn't invent the idea. I doubt there is any totally standard and precise definition of this.
Another way to look at it is that there are many forms of love. Love for family and (platonic) friends. If you say you are "in love with" someone, there is romantic interest, and sexual desire that differentiates it from other more pedestrian forms of "love". Personally I would not advise anyone to get too hung up over these definitions, you know how you feel about your spouse and how you feel about giving up a satisfying sexual and romantic life with them in order to keep checking those other boxes.
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Post by h on Jun 20, 2017 14:56:25 GMT -5
I will distill my point further: if you have a favorite restaurant, you keep going back because you love it, right? No, it's actually the other way around: you can tell that you love it because you keep going back. So the question about your marriage is a false one: do I love him enough to stay? My point is if you want to stay THEN you call tell that you love him. You can love someone and not be "in love with them" as in "I care about your general welfare but don't feel passion" |
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Post by northstarmom on Jun 20, 2017 15:03:33 GMT -5
"So the question about your marriage is a false one: do I love him enough to stay? My point is if you want to stay THEN you call tell that you love him."
Not true. You could want to stay for reasons that have nothing to do with love: finances; fear of loneliness; concern about how family and friends will treat you if you divorce; belonging to a religion that doesn't allow divorce; pity for your mate; fear about how divorce would affect your kids; fear of the unknown....
You even could choose to stay married while romantically loving someone else....
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Post by bballgirl on Jun 20, 2017 15:56:17 GMT -5
I can't speak for you or answer the question for anyone but myself.
For me the difference was when I no longer desired my H sexually that is when I was no longer in love.
As well I outsourced and I could not outsource if I was still in love.
I love him more like a brother.
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Post by baza on Jun 20, 2017 18:25:24 GMT -5
I liken it to investing on the stock market.
Although one cannot eliminate risk, by doing ones due diligence one can manage the risk to a very large extent
Presuppossing you have picked a good stock to invest in, you are looking for two things -
#1 - a return on your investment in the form of dividends
#2 - capital growth in the form of the unit price increasing
Dividends are similar to "love". A pretty predictable and steady return on your investment.
Capital growth is more your "in love". Can vary considerably dependent on trading conditions at the time, but taken over the long term generally trending upward.
All shares are not good investments.
They can - and do - tank spectacularly at times.
Usually, the dividends start to fall because the companies profitability starts to fall.
Could be due to uncontrolled factors (no-ones fault) or could be that the directors are idiots or are ripping off the company.
Then, the unit price starts to fall as the market responds to the declining quality of the company.
And it is HERE that troubles begin.
Having put up your money - lets say at $10 when you bought in - you may fall victim to "sunk cost trap".
This is where you take the attitude as the unit price is falling that you have already sunk $10 into the investment, the current price is $5 so you will hang on until the value returns to $10 or more. You are not prepared to take the $5 loss.
Then the price drops to $2.50.
And you hang on still hoping that something will drive the value back up to $10 or more.You won't take the $7.50 loss.
Price dives to $1.25
Then $0.63
Then $0.31
Then the stock is suspended from trading, the administrators are called in, the company is wound up, and you, if you are lucky, might get a wind up divvy of $0.01 but probably "nuthin".
You turned a potential $5.00 unit price loss into a $9.99 (or total) loss by "hoping", and trying to recover your sunk cost.
In this analogy, it is the "in love" that starts the tanking process, and drags the "love" down the chute with it.
What you might take out of it, is that as a general philosophy it is best to take your first loss.
Whilst there is still some value to be extracted.
Hanging on until all value is dissipated is not such a great strategy.
You can - and should - do a thorough investigation later, so you don't fall for that particular trap again.
But in the moment, it really doesn't matter whether it was the "love" factor that tanked or the "in love" factor that tanked.
It fucking tanked. End of story.
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Post by Venus Erotes on Jun 20, 2017 19:41:39 GMT -5
In my mind, it's love vs infatuation. Most relationships start with infatuation, which is an immature vision of love. I'm defining "immature" to mean the maturity of the relationship, it has nothing to do with the maturity or age of the person.
Doesn't infatuation wane in all relationships to the comfortable "I love you" of everyday life? Life is not a fairy tale, or a romantic comedy. Life is just that - life. It's what you choose to do with that life that defines who you are.
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Post by lwoetin on Jun 20, 2017 20:54:46 GMT -5
I think you are still in love with your husband. I think you love your husband. It's all the same. What's more important is if he feels the same. To still be in love with him, he must be doing something right though for you not to talk shit about him here.
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Post by choosinghappy on Jun 20, 2017 21:15:25 GMT -5
I think you are still in love with your husband. I think you love your husband. It's all the same. What's more important is if he feels the same. To still be in love with him, he must be doing something right though for you not to talk shit about him here. You're right lwoetin . I love him very much. That's probably what makes this exceptionally hard. |
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Post by choosinghappy on Jun 20, 2017 21:20:53 GMT -5
Doesn't infatuation wane in all relationships to the comfortable "I love you" of everyday life? Life is not a fairy tale, or a romantic comedy. Life is just that - life. It's what you choose to do with that life that defines who you are. Funny you say this because I feel like when people talk about being "in love" it borders on fairy tale territory. That's part of why I asked the question. I've never thought to myself "wow, I'm so in love with this man", though I've never doubted my love for him. I remember the infatuation period at the beginning but I didn't consider that being "in love". I have to wonder if others (especially those in good, sex-filled marriages) are like this or if I'm just overly practical about it. Does that infatuation/state of being IN love wane for those in good marriages or has that just been every person in this forum's experience? |
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Post by baza on Jun 20, 2017 22:02:45 GMT -5
I can speak from the perspective of the relationship I am in these days with the delectable Ms enna if you like Sister choosinghappyProbably I will go with the sex and love components. When we first eyeballed each other it was after about 5 months of emailing and texting and phone calls. (Stupid part was, it started off with us just being friends, neither of us were looking for a hook up or relationship) Anyway, there we were eyeballing each other and yada yada yada. By the end of the weekend I had developed very strong feelings for her and my dick was red raw from the estimated double figure roots we had. I was blowing dust in the latter stages. So, at face to face, there was a heap of sex and the beginning stages of "leeerv". Now hit the fast forward by 7 years. (shit, there have been a lot of things have happened over that period) We haven't had a root for about 5 days and by any measure, the rooting has tailed of appreciably since that weekend 7 years ago (just as well too or I probably by now have worn out my slug !) But, I absolutely love Ms enna. I find it hard to express just how much. But if that love was a "one" back on that weekend, we are now talking "one thousand". OTOH if we take the sex and rate that at say "ten" back 7 years ago, we are today talking a more sedate "three". A wonderful fulfilling exciting and fantastic "three". Does this help ? |
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Post by beachguy on Jun 21, 2017 2:35:38 GMT -5
It's difficult now remembering being in love with my STBX. After 3 decades of increasing sexlessness. I don't think I could be in love with someone that didn't want me that way.
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