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Post by DryCreek on Jun 25, 2017 13:52:26 GMT -5
And with a SM people would take the refused side. However we are talking about sex and we don't share that issue outside for the whole world to know. Sex, intimacy, and connection should be more of a foundation for a relationship than cars, money, or houses. I agree, it's not discussed. I'm not so sure on where folks would stand on the issue. Yes, my friends and family would take my side as the refused. Hers would take her side ("He's a bad husband and doesn't deserve sex"). More importantly, PC and the Establishment (therapists, etc) take the side of the refused. "It's who they are; they can't help it; you need to adjust to their new reality; it's their body, they're entitled to change if they want to with no consequences". That is, socially, there's not much shame in bad behavior. Hell, if it's salacious enough they can get their own reality TV show. |
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Post by bballgirl on Jun 25, 2017 14:38:46 GMT -5
And with a SM people would take the refused side. However we are talking about sex and we don't share that issue outside for the whole world to know. Sex, intimacy, and connection should be more of a foundation for a relationship than cars, money, or houses. I agree, it's not discussed. I'm not so sure on where folks would stand on the issue. Yes, my friends and family would take my side as the refused. Hers would take her side ("He's a bad husband and doesn't deserve sex"). More importantly, PC and the Establishment (therapists, etc) take the side of the refused. "It's who they are; they can't help it; you need to adjust to their new reality; it's their body, they're entitled to change if they want to with no consequences". That is, socially, there's not muchshame in bad behavior. Hell, if it's salacious enough they can get their own reality TV show. I wonder if gender doesn't come into play with what is PC, which to me is bullshit. When I went to my therapist, she sided with me, during the joint session- she sided with me, told my ex to get an attorney, even my ex said he was an asshole and he's sorry. However I think there is gender bias which I don't agree with, we are all human beings with different needs. When the needs are too different that's when there's a problem. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2017 12:59:43 GMT -5
DryCreek said: "More importantly, PC and the Establishment (therapists, etc) take the side of the refused. 'It's who they are; they can't help it; you need to adjust to their new reality; it's their body, they're entitled to change if they want to with no consequences'." Did you mean that PC and the Establishment take the side of the refuser?
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Post by orangepeel on Jun 26, 2017 14:57:02 GMT -5
Longtime lurker. Almost seven years with zero sex, no medical issues, she just said she wasn't interested anymore. I have expressed to her many times how this is destroying me from the inside out, but she just doesn't seem to register anything. She deflects and defends and moves on. She does not see or feel that there is a problem. The worst part to understand is when she just goes on and on about future things - things that need to be done or that she is looking forward to. It's like she is in complete denial that I have even talked to her about this serious problem. This is bizarre to me. Has anyone else experienced this? What is this? How can I cope with it? Snap Been there. Done that. Five years. Me and you both, my friend. Me and you both. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2017 15:09:08 GMT -5
Longtime lurker. Almost seven years with zero sex, no medical issues, she just said she wasn't interested anymore. I have expressed to her many times how this is destroying me from the inside out, but she just doesn't seem to register anything. She deflects and defends and moves on. She does not see or feel that there is a problem. The worst part to understand is when she just goes on and on about future things - things that need to be done or that she is looking forward to. It's like she is in complete denial that I have even talked to her about this serious problem. This is bizarre to me. Has anyone else experienced this? What is this? How can I cope with it? Snap Been there. Done that. Five years. Me and you both, my friend. Me and you both. Yup, living it. I have gotten some traction before communicating it in terms I thought would make more sense than "my needs". Talking about "your needs in a relationship" is always the unavoidably weaker position to be which I'm not thrilled with anyway. I am a handy guy, I've built us one home and have significantly remodeled a few others. During one mismatch discussion (and aren't those always calm and emotion-free) she said that I didn't seem to understand that it was her body and that I wanted to "use it". I responded that it's not dissimilar than the hundreds of hours where my body has been used to provide a nicer house and that I did it willingly because it was important to her, because I love her. |
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Post by DryCreek on Jun 26, 2017 16:10:48 GMT -5
Did you mean that PC and the Establishment take the side of the refuser? Particularly from a guy's perspective, yes. While friends and family are supportive, society's attitude seems to be "it's her body, it's her choice, deal with it", rather than taking an attitude that intimacy is a key expectation of marriage. Not to say "guys have it worse", but I think there's a lot more disbelief and outrage when a guy refuses, heavily fueled by the stereotype that guys are always the pursuers. You don't see that same kind of reaction to female refusers. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2017 17:11:02 GMT -5
I've always thought that society (being rather prissy and prudish) would be on the side of the one who wanted less sex.
Sometimes I think the whole purpose of "society" is to prevent people from having sex.
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Post by lifeinwoodinville on Jun 26, 2017 17:44:30 GMT -5
Longtime lurker. Almost seven years with zero sex, no medical issues, she just said she wasn't interested anymore. I have expressed to her many times how this is destroying me from the inside out, but she just doesn't seem to register anything. She deflects and defends and moves on. She does not see or feel that there is a problem. The worst part to understand is when she just goes on and on about future things - things that need to be done or that she is looking forward to. It's like she is in complete denial that I have even talked to her about this serious problem. This is bizarre to me. Has anyone else experienced this? What is this? How can I cope with it? Is your wife about 5' 5", brown hair, blue eyes, large yet luscious ass? I just have to check because from the description that you provided for her behavior, she sounds almost exactly the same as my wife. I think the "I'm not interested anymore" line bothers me the most. I think of it this way: I'm not interested in digging holes in the yard so my wife can plant more stuff but i do it anyway. Why? Because I know the yard is important to her and I want her to be happy. Not only do I dig the holes but I do a good job of it. Before I start I ask my wife how big would she like it, how deep I should go, and exactly where she would like me to put it. If only I could get my wife to answer the same questions when it comes to sex. My wife also does the same thing when talking about future plans. "Let's plan a trip this summer to go visit the hot springs up in Canada! Doesn't that sound wonderful?" she will say. If I come back with "The hot springs would feel amazing, especially after making love!" then suddenly I am the monster that only thinks about sex and somehow I just ruined the whole vacation. |
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Post by carl on Jun 26, 2017 18:09:04 GMT -5
Hi
I haven't commented on any of the discussions so far - so don't shoot me down yet
Sounds to me as if you are in an awful situation similar to what I have experienced. Well similar to what so many people are sadly suffering by the looks of it. Unless the refuser has medical problems (which can't be very often) are they not just taking the piss a bit. Wouldn't it be worth spending a bit of time away from home around other people in a sociable setting ??
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Post by northstarmom on Jun 26, 2017 18:51:15 GMT -5
I found that the more comfortable I got with my own sexuality and needs, the more I attracted to me preppie who enjoy sex. These included women friends who were still having sex in their 60s, 70s and eighties and who viewed my refuser as being an emotional abuser.
Lots of time what we view as society's perspective is a reflection of our own unrecognized thoughts. People who are certain that sex as important and a right and an important part of love would not choose to marry someone who was sexually averse.
People with that sureness about sex wouldn't stay if a partner cut off sex once married or demanded that one jump through intricate hoops to obtain it.
Most of us wouldn't tolerate a husband who quit his job and decided to laze around all day once he married. Most wouldn't tolerate a wife who once married didn't cook, clean, or work. I realize there are the refused here who did tolerate such behavior. In such cases, tolerance of your sm probably reflects a total lack of assertiveness combined with a desperate need to have a partner under any circumstances.
For others, though, it would be more productive to examine your own beliefs about sex than to blame society for your situation. People do manage to break free of repressive religious doctrines and repressive family guidelines. It's not easy but neither is living in a sm.
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Post by beachguy on Jun 27, 2017 19:56:16 GMT -5
Lots of time what we view as society's perspective is a reflection of our own unrecognized thoughts. People who are certain that sex as important and a right and an important part of love would not choose to marry someone who was sexually averse. Most of us did not know in advance our spouse's aversion to sex. After my first date, I thought my wife to be was a porn star. The day after the marriage (after she had fast tracked me into a marriage, and a jointly owned house before we even married) her true colors started to appear. But it was not until she shackled me with a child that it all came out. I actually went to great pains to make sure I married a sex positive partner. But a scam is a scam. As far as societies perspective it is very clear. It is embodied in marital law. In my state there are prescribed "penalties" for adultery, but none for sexual abandonment. We have all heard friends, relatives, and even complete strangers complaining about their cheating spouse. But no one ever asks the most important question: "when is the last time you fucked him/her?  ?". No one cares. Because our culture cares not a whit about the quid pro quo that was put into the marriage contract way back when monogamy was invented. This is a cultural, societal and legal flaw in the marriage contract. But no one ever explains this before the marriage. In fact, there is fine print on the back of every marriage license: "your spouse has an absolute and legal right, embodied by your culture, to enforce celibacy on you any time they desire. And if you don't like it, fuck you". |
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Post by baza on Jun 27, 2017 20:40:51 GMT -5
I will offer up this.
When I was a kid, in my jurisdiction it was a time where oral contraception was in its early stages, premarital sex was frowned upon, unwed mothers were frowned upon (in instances forced to give up their kid), shotgun marriages were not unusual, people being co-erced into changing religion if they wanted to marry outside their faith was not unusual, divorce was based on fault, cheating was frowned upon, 'living in sin' was a social no no, pornography was illegal, and same sex activities illegal, and whacking yourself off wasn't regarded too highly either.
An altogether repressed and repressive environment in my jurisdiction.
Enter stage right people like Gough Whitlam, Don Chipp, Doug McClelland, Germaine Greer, and many others who railed against the popular view, argued their case logically, got into the legislature, media etc and put forward sound sensible points of view and worked their arses off to start shifting public opinion.
And now, my jurisdiction today.
Oral contraception is normal. Premarital sex is accepted, unwed mothers are not forced to give up their kid,, shotgun marriages are now unusual, people being co-erced into changing religion if they wanted to marry outside their faith is not usual, divorce based on no fault, cheating is still a social faux pas, 'living in sin' is far from unusual, pornography is restricted but legal, and same sex activities are legal, and whacking yourself off remains as popular as ever.
So thank you Gough, Don, Doug, Germaine and many others.
Although there are plenty more social inequities to address, you blokes and chicks certainly gave things a good kick up the arse to get things moving.
And now, who steps up to consolidate the gains made and drive the process of change onward ?? Who picks up the torch and carries it forward ??
Perhaps, given that "we" reaped the benefit of the work these people put in, it would seem that responsibility belongs there.
With us.
For the benefit of the next generation, our kids.
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?". No one cares. Because our culture cares not a whit about the quid pro quo that was put into the marriage contract way back when monogamy was invented. This is a cultural, societal and legal flaw in the marriage contract. But no one ever explains this before the marriage. In fact, there is fine print on the back of every marriage license: "your spouse has an absolute and legal right, embodied by your culture, to enforce celibacy on you any time they desire. And if you don't like it, fuck you".
