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Post by tiffanyc on Jun 16, 2017 7:00:02 GMT -5
So, I have read responses to my last post here. While yes some have been helpful and even given me ideas, there are some that have me feeling frustrated.
I understand that about 99% of the people on this forum at the refused in their respected relationships. It must me hard when someone like me, the refuser as I have been labeled, comes on.
I came across this forum and thought, "finally, a forum where I could maybe get some advice on how to correct things"
Nope. Not the case. I have spent more time explaining and defending myself than I have anything else. Being told I don't have a low libido and that I just don't want to have sex with my H.
If that was the case and I was as self centered as that I would have gone for an AP or FWB a LONG time ago, yet I haven't nor am I looking to.
I am genuinely trying to work on my issues with H regarding sex. Telling him what I want more of in that department and so forth.
Just because I read and write "romance" doesn't mean I'm always wanting sex. Quite the opposite. One reply to my last post has me even more convinced that romance and sex DO NOT go hand and hand and that wanting a romantic sexual relationship with my H is an illusion for movies and books.
Thanks for opening my eyes there.
No else here is walking in my shoes or walking around in my head. Funny how I'm self centered yet several posts I've read and even commented on are more self centric than mine. But hey that's okay right? I'm the refuser so how can I relate to any of your issues?
I'm not using sex as a game against my H though some of you may think so. If that were the case, I'm losing said game.
I know what our relationship was like in the beginning and I want just a sliver of that back. There was an intimacy along with the sex that's been missing for years. But I didn't remove it. I just want some of it back and that's what I was hoping to get help on here.
They say it's easier to talk to a stranger than a friend. Well, I no longer believe that old saying to be true.
Guess I'm once more being over dramatic and wanting a "lie" called "romance" with my H?
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Post by baza on Jun 16, 2017 7:40:24 GMT -5
Well tiffany, you managed to occupy centre stage there for a few days, your 180 odd posts and members replies attest to that.
And sure did provoke a fair bit of discussion and got some usually pretty quiet members to fire up.
Thanks for that.
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Post by merrygoround on Jun 16, 2017 7:47:23 GMT -5
I just can't anymore. Reminds me of my husband. Sorry.
But I really do hope you get help.
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Post by ironhamster on Jun 16, 2017 8:04:17 GMT -5
Tiffany? I get it. I understand why you don't do what you don't do.
Why don't you gtfo or outsource?
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Post by GeekGoddess on Jun 16, 2017 8:33:22 GMT -5
Tiffany - I hope you got at least some glimpse of the frustration on each side of a dysfunction. I don't really feel like any of us are blameless & I for sure went through phases of playing the refuser & refused roles.
My Ex & I were together 25 yrs. Married 17 of those. Mildly dysfunctional & maladjusted probably the whole time, but only hindsight let me see that.
Most of the time - until year 20 or 22 of knowing each other - I really was living the most authentically that I could. I wasn't equipped, back then, to see what was sub-par OR see what I could do about it. I definitely didn't have "the adulting skills" needed to DO something about any of it.
Each person has a unique journey. Our experiences lead to our own insight & those insights help drive our perception of the next experience.
For my participation in the group, the words from others are often helpful- that may be supportive, questioning, or thought-provoking enough to trigger defense mechanisms in me.
Whatever that all is, helps tell ME something about myself - if I'm willing to humbly assess myself in quiet time. Self-reflection is far more valuable than other people's words or opinions.
What you can do is very limited. What & how your H is, is very likely his true authentic self.
You can make yourself happy in spite of who he is. This may include changing your attitude about what you want (the romance), or your attitude about what he claims to need (the sex), or it may include redefining your whole life (like I did - I left).
But whatever you choose, you own. That's all. You can change your attitude and/or your actions. That's "it" really. Everyone else, including your H, get to choose their attitude, their action, & they get to own it.
With my H, when i accepted the fact that he could never again be "enough" for me, & we could never undo enough past hurts - I knew I had to leave in order to be me, in order for my spirited personality to survive.
Even though I wouldn't have died physically with him, the spiritual death of living in an unloving home was unbearable to me.
I'm much more fulfilled living alone than I was in the last years of my marriage- getting torn down verbally & completely crushed emotionally every night, the daily subtle rejection & the weekly firmer slights to prevent closeness was a special form of hellish torture.
I hope you get whatever realizations you need to. You are your own best teacher, knowing somewhere in your heart what "your right answer" really is. Maybe try meditation as a practice, along with counseling I'd say, to be able to find out what you want in your life, & whether you believe staying married contributes to your long-term happiness. If it does, & your spouse also believes this is true for him, then in joint counseling you may be able to find tolerable compromises that allow you both the happiness you deserve (we all deserve in life).
I'm intrigued by your story, myself. I thank you for sharing so much with us. It's helpful & gives some applicable insight, at least as applied to my Ex.
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Post by jim44444 on Jun 16, 2017 8:40:06 GMT -5
tiffanyc , you have provided insight and fodder for discussion of relationships and sex. I admit when I saw your first post all I could think was "Good luck, you are in the line of fire". I think some of the hostility stems from our human nature to project other people's actions into our own lives. Your posts highlight a truth that we often wish to deny - that our SM may just be the result of the fact that our partner does not want to fuck us. It is easier to believe that there is some simple issue that can be fixed with counseling or communication or date nights or aphrodisiacs. But the ugly truth is our partners may want to fuck but not with us. Try to not take the statements made by people here as a judgement of your worth, we all have our demons and triggers. Sometimes our attempts to express our feelings and thoughts fall short of clarity and can be misinterpreted.
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Post by lifeinwoodinville on Jun 16, 2017 8:49:16 GMT -5
I don't see you as a refuser. You may be refusing sex but in my opinion a refuser also refuses to admit there is a problem and also refuses to work on that problem. The fact that you are here trying to make things better speaks volumes to me about you commitment to your spouse. That's just my two cents, for what it's worth.
Best of luck on your end, I hope you find what you are looking for.
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Post by McRoomMate on Jun 16, 2017 8:52:18 GMT -5
OK maybe this has been said and done a 1000 times already.
1. Talk about it with your H?
2. Go to counselling?
3. Go away for a week-end even if it is to a Motel 8 off the next exit ramp.
Do you still love him and want be a HAPPY COUPLE in LOVE? Does He? Then maybe it is worth making efforts.
And the obvious too obvious - "It Take Two to Make a Thing Go Right" - you both have to want it and desire it.
Personally, yes, I heard a lot of this from my W - she needed to feel desired and loved - the "sex" begins hours before the bed chamber - it is an all day thing and a BAROMETER of the health of the couple.
If the SEXLESSNESS is there it 99 out of a 100 is but a SYMPTOM of deeper problems - It don't matter who is the Refuser or the Refused - because these roles as we see can interchange.
My nose is running but the problem aint my nose it is a cold virus in my blood.
my knee hurts - but it aint my knee it is my Iliot Tibial band that runs from my back bone to my heel.
The marriage is sexless but it aint the lack of sex that is CAUSING the sexlessness - it is something somewhere else.
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Post by bran127 on Jun 16, 2017 9:29:36 GMT -5
I honestly think it is hard to hear the truth sometimes, no matter if you are the refuser or the refused. Most of us are the refused, and I commend you for trying to see the flip side of the situation. It is hard to hear the refuser's perspective and it probably triggers a lot of emotions for some of us, so this may not be the most positive support group for you. I think the most important take away is that, as McRoomate said, "It takes two to Make a thing go right" (btw that song is now stuck in my head for the day, thanks for that  . It is all about choices. You are choosing to refuse, and he is choosing to be the refused. Toxic mix, but I think it is healthy to see the other side for all of us. I am certainly NO EXPERT, and I am not trying to be one, but I truly have learned a lot from this group of people. Sometimes it is hard to take a step back and truly reflect. |
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Post by northstarmom on Jun 16, 2017 9:46:41 GMT -5
I would be interested in reading your husband's side of the story. Tiffany, would you be willing to invite him hereand to allow him to read your posts and tell his view of the marriage? That could help people provide more useful feedback and some of the refused may develop insights to apply to their own situations.
There is one thing about your situation that baffles me. You have now explained that your husband works as long as 10-hour days outside repairing turbine windmills. Sometimes he is working in 101 degree heat. You also said he gets up at 5:30 am to go to work and you are in bed then. You no longer work your job in marketing because you had felt your coworkers were unkind and lazy and you had to do their work. You said all of the jobs in your town are like that. Consequently, in addition to working long days during manual labor in uncomfortable conditions, presumably your husband is working with lazy, unsupportive people. Yet, due to your unhappiness at work, he encouraged you to not work, leaving him as the sole provider for a family of 4 that includes teen girls.
On the weekend day that was your anniversary, he worked. You were annoyed that he did not wish you a happy anniversary nor make anniversary plans. You did not mention doing anything for your husband to celebrate or to acknowledge your anniversary.
My question is: When you look back at that day, is there anything you wish you had done differently?
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Post by DryCreek on Jun 16, 2017 10:31:14 GMT -5
tiffanyc, I completely understand your frustration. I'll be a little contrarian here... as your story has unfolded, I'm not sure that I would classify you as a "refuser". Nor your husband. Yes, you are declining sex, but as a reaction to a broken sex dynamic. What you seem to be describing is less about your disinterest or desire, and more about the fact that H won't make the effort to get you in the mood and contribute to a mutually amazing experience. (And, perhaps, your actions don't nurture that mindset in him.) Your refusal seems to be rooted more in a reaction to a partner who won't make the effort. In a typical SM scenario this would be tagged as counter-refusal... you're not averse to sex; you're avoiding bad sex because the experience is unpleasant / one-sided / mechanical / emotionless / whatever. In the context of SM, counter-refusal is an emotional defense... experience says it's an illusion, and what "checks the box" as "sex" will be a cruel disappointment. Maybe I'm missing key facts, but the problem here seems to be a lot more about the relationship - and more importantly, H's listening skills and willingness to put in the effort on his side. Being conscious about pushing each other's buttons in meaningful ways, which can require humbly "re-learning" what each other needs emotionally and making the effort to deliver. (And appreciate that today's version of you two is different from 20 years ago, and what did/didn't work then may not apply anymore.) This is usually where a counselor comes into the picture to help facilitate. Not that it can't be done independently, but it requires a level of introspection and self-awareness that, frankly, someone who refuses to consider counseling probably doesn't have. (At some point one gains these skills and can progress without guidance, but those skills aren't instinctive.) FWIW, DC
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Post by h on Jun 16, 2017 11:12:15 GMT -5
I would be interested in reading your husband's side of the story. Tiffany, would you be willing to invite him here and to allow him to read your posts and tell his view of the marriage? That could help people provide more useful feedback and some of the refused may develop insights to apply to their own situations. Yes! Invite him here. If anything, it would show him that you care enough about him to find a solution and ask others for advice. |
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Post by beachguy on Jun 16, 2017 11:22:29 GMT -5
tiffanyc , I completely understand your frustration. I'll be a little contrarian here... as your story has unfolded, I'm not sure that I would classify you as a "refuser". Nor your husband. Yes, you are declining sex, but as a reaction to a broken sex dynamic. What you seem to be describing is less about your disinterest or desire, and more about the fact that H won't make the effort to get you in the mood and contribute to a mutually amazing experience. (And, perhaps, your actions don't nurture that mindset in him.) Your refusal seems to be rooted more in a reaction to a partner who won't make the effort. In a typical SM scenario this would be tagged as counter-refusal... you're not averse to sex; you're avoiding bad sex because the experience is unpleasant / one-sided / mechanical / emotionless / whatever. In the context of SM, counter-refusal is an emotional defense... experience says it's an illusion, and what "checks the box" as "sex" will be a cruel disappointment. Maybe I'm missing key facts, but the problem here seems to be a lot more about the relationship - and more importantly, H's listening skills and willingness to put in the effort on his side. Being conscious about pushing each other's buttons in meaningful ways, which can require humbly "re-learning" what each other needs emotionally and making the effort to deliver. (And appreciate that today's version of you two is different from 20 years ago, and what did/didn't work then may not apply anymore.) This is usually where a counselor comes into the picture to help facilitate. Not that it can't be done independently, but it requires a level of introspection and self-awareness that, frankly, someone who refuses to consider counseling probably doesn't have. (At some point one gains these skills and can progress without guidance, but those skills aren't instinctive.) FWIW, DC My own take on this is that her H has been counter-refusing, to some extent, since the 3 years Tiffany first refused. He lost his trust, and his desire to satisfy her as he had when they first met. Without casting blame on either, I'm just suggesting that this story shows how difficult it is to turn any SM around, even after "only" 3 years. And in this case the *original* refuser (and she still suggests she is even now a refuser (sort of, maybe) and has offered evidence of such) is the one actively trying to fix things. In most cases here there is a very definite refuser (at least according to the members here), and that refuser has zero interest in fixing things, and there is also intense counter-refusal going on, and I think it illustrates why it is really impossible to turn around the typical SM here. I know for sure it is the case with me. My own wife might have tried to turn things around, right at the point where I came to understand it was all beyond hope. She just did it 30 years too late. Or maybe it was just a temporary reset doomed to failure. I'll never know. |
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Post by twotimesone on Jun 16, 2017 13:43:37 GMT -5
I don't see you as a refuser. You may be refusing sex but in my opinion a refuser also refuses to admit there is a problem and also refuses to work on that problem. The fact that you are here trying to make things better speaks volumes to me about you commitment to your spouse. That's just my two cents, for what it's worth. Best of luck on your end, I hope you find what you are looking for. I agree. She is probably more brave than most of us and actually admit that she has a problem. |
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Post by tiffanyc on Jun 16, 2017 13:44:23 GMT -5
I would be interested in reading your husband's side of the story. Tiffany, would you be willing to invite him hereand to allow him to read your posts and tell his view of the marriage? That could help people provide more useful feedback and some of the refused may develop insights to apply to their own situations. There is one thing about your situation that baffles me. You have now explained that your husband works as long as 10-hour days outside repairing turbine windmills. Sometimes he is working in 101 degree heat. You also said he gets up at 5:30 am to go to work and you are in bed then. You no longer work your job in marketing because you had felt your coworkers were unkind and lazy and you had to do their work. You said all of the jobs in your town are like that. Consequently, in addition to working long days during manual labor in uncomfortable conditions, presumably your husband is working with lazy, unsupportive people. Yet, due to your unhappiness at work, he encouraged you to not work, leaving him as the sole provider for a family of 4 that includes teen girls. On the weekend day that was your anniversary, he worked. You were annoyed that he did not wish you a happy anniversary nor make anniversary plans. You did not mention doing anything for your husband to celebrate or to acknowledge your anniversary. My question is: When you look back at that day, is there anything you wish you had done differently? Looking back on that day, yes there are things I wish I had done differently. I wish I had said no to my daughter having a friend over. When he came home, he did inadvertently open a small crack where I probably could have talked him into at least going out to dinner that I don't think I saw at the time. (Hindsight and all). As for getting him here online? Um.... no. Here's why. I had joined EP several years ago and he found out. He was upset saying that our live didn't need to be out there. Funny thing was I hadn't put any personal info about us on EP other than I was looking to spice things up and such. |
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. It is all about choices. You are choosing to refuse, and he is choosing to be the refused. Toxic mix, but I think it is healthy to see the other side for all of us. I am certainly NO EXPERT, and I am not trying to be one, but I truly have learned a lot from this group of people. Sometimes it is hard to take a step back and truly reflect. 
