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Post by tiffanyc on Jun 10, 2017 21:21:12 GMT -5
This sort of thing - quoting you here Sister tiffanyc - "Early he actually asked me "what's wrong?" Seriously? It's our anniversary and he let our youngest have a friend stay over. Then all the other crap I did today, plus he never said "happy anniversary". I just told him I was fine" - is not such a great policy. By joining in the bullshit (saying things you don't mean, or not saying the things you do mean) makes you fully complicit in the dynamic. He is talking bullshit, and you have joined in. I've never seen this tactic of joining in the bullshit work in bringing an ILIASM deal to resolution. However, suddenly doing a 180 and challenging him every time he engages in bullshit behaviour is probably not a goer for you at this point of proceedings. Might be worthwhile starting small. But as a guiding principle in an ILIASM deal it is best to only say what you mean, and to mean what you say. Your cred is a really good thing to have in your bag of tricks. It is best not to shred it. I'll remember that |
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Post by greatcoastal on Jun 10, 2017 21:31:31 GMT -5
Sadly he gets away with pretending he's interested in your feelings. Yet you remain, afraid, and passive. It sounds like he is aware of this and plays that card to his advantage. he gets no response, and now has the excuse that he tried. If you do respond , you are whinning and complaining. it sounds like he has you in a double bind. Tonight is your anniversary, this is emotionally tough on you, you are dying inside and having to talk to a stranger a thousand miles away. My heart goes out to you dear. Sleep on it, give it time. Stay in touch. My prayer for you is that by the end of summer and the middle of Fall you will have a better grasp of your situation and will begin to do more for yourself and your own happiness. All in the name of" what's best for the family and me". Thanks. It is sad I have to confide in strangers. I just don't want to talk to my mom or a mutual friend and it inadvertently getting back to him but not the whole thing ya know. You just took a positive step, (weather you realize it or not) you have come to the conclusion that you are afraid (FOG fear, obligation, and guilt) of it getting back to him. Basically that's saying "communicating with him is useless". He will just twist, and minupilate it even further. All small steps towards your self improvement. Think of it as "things worth having and achieving are worth working for." "Good things don't come easy" You have already been through the suffering, through your endless giving, and giving in to keep him happy. it's time for some taking, for your happiness. |
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Post by tiffanyc on Jun 10, 2017 21:34:11 GMT -5
Thanks. It is sad I have to confide in strangers. I just don't want to talk to my mom or a mutual friend and it inadvertently getting back to him but not the whole thing ya know. You just took a positive step, (weather you realize it or not) you have come to the conclusion that you are afraid (FOG fear, obligation, and guilt) of it getting back to him. Basically that's saying "communicating with him is useless". He will just twist, and minupilate it even further. All small steps towards your self improvement. Think of it as "things worth having and achieving are worth working for." "Good things don't come easy" You have already been through the suffering, through your endless giving, and giving in to keep him happy. it's time for some taking, for your happiness. That's why I self published my book and didn't tell him. Not that he's shown any support or anything on that front. 😐 |
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Post by northstarmom on Jun 11, 2017 5:24:16 GMT -5
You are choosing to be a passive, resentful victim. You knew your anniversary was coming up. You could have discussed that in advance with him and together planned something romantic and enjoyable. That's what I do with post sm lover. I'm the only one who remembers our anniversary, which is the first time we fucked. I remind him and do most of the planning such as making trip or restaurant reservations or getting a sexy outfit for sex role play.. He happily goes along and pays.
Incidentally, due to anticipation, i always feel sexy that day and we have sex. Mentioning that especially since you are the resentful refuser who has no libido for your husband but writes steamy romance novels, has played in sex chat rooms and was recently tempted when an acquaintance made a pass.
Your expecting your husband to read your mind and give you the special day you want is adding to your misery and to your justifications for not wanting to have sex with him. If you were trying to engage him in planning for things like your anniversary and he was refusing to bother, then you'd have a good reason for complaining. But what you posted was an example of your stonewalling him, doing one of the four horsemen that doom relationships.
If you had said you had tried in advance to plan with your husband a romantic anniversary but he refused, my response would be different. It would be to do things under your control to give yourself an enjoyable day even if that meant a spa day followed by a movie with friends while your husband stayed home with the kids. I'd also ask you to consider whether remaining married is worth it to you.
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Post by northstarmom on Jun 11, 2017 7:19:42 GMT -5
"it's not important whether we do or don't do anything. What hurts is he's usually really good about telling me happy anniversary first thing. "
Actually, your original posts sounds like it is important to you whether you do or don't do anything for your anniversary, but for some reason, you won't admit that even to yourself.
If all you want on your anniversary is for him to say, "Happy anniversary" first thing, that's a low and unromantic way to celebrate a special day. Doesn't sound like what someone like you -- who writes romance novels-- would view as a fine celebration.
I truly doubt that if he had said, "Happy anniversary," you really would have been happy with an anniversary that consisted of him working, and your doing chores around the house and then hosting an extra person.
How would one of your romance novel heroines celebrate her anniversary? Why don't you incorporate something like that into your own life?
And -- since this is a forum for those who are or have been in SMs, and you are the refuser in your marriage: What happened sexually on your anniversary?
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Post by tiffanyc on Jun 11, 2017 9:28:37 GMT -5
tiffanycToday is my birthday and now that your anniversary has ended I hope I'm not stealing your thunder by sharing my worst anniversary story. It was 2011. We had been low sex low passion for maybe 3 years or so. I told my W I was getting a room at the Opryland Hotel. The room we stayed in the first night of our honeymoon. Coincidentally that room overlooks the waterfall where I proposed to her many months prior. Well it so happens that years of severe anxiety over the marriage sent me over the edge and I spent our anniversary in a mental hospital. I had actually booked the room and had to cancel it. Anyways, I only got 100% rejection after that. We have not made love even once since then. You know how people use "before christ"/anno domini" to mark the years? Well my calendar starts on what other people think of as August 9, 2011 and I mark the years as either "before celibacy" (BC) or "after damnation" (AD) So I would like to ask you: given all the hurt feelings that you now have (I'm sure my W had hers. I'm far from perfect). If your H had put together a romantic gesture such as above, would you think it genuine, or just another scheme to get sex? If my H had done something like that, I would have been giddy and flattered! I would have been thrilled! I wouldn't have cared if he he was just trying to get sex, it would have been sweet and romantic and I would have gone along. I'm so sorry about what happened to you. I hope you're doing better. |
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Post by tiffanyc on Jun 11, 2017 11:19:18 GMT -5
"it's not important whether we do or don't do anything. What hurts is he's usually really good about telling me happy anniversary first thing. " Actually, your original posts sounds like it is important to you whether you do or don't do anything for your anniversary, but for some reason, you won't admit that even to yourself. If all you want on your anniversary is for him to say, "Happy anniversary" first thing, that's a low and unromantic way to celebrate a special day. Doesn't sound like what someone like you -- who writes romance novels-- would view as a fine celebration. I truly doubt that if he had said, "Happy anniversary," you really would have been happy with an anniversary that consisted of him working, and your doing chores around the house and then hosting an extra person. How would one of your romance novel heroines celebrate her anniversary? Why don't you incorporate something like that into your own life? And -- since this is a forum for those who are or have been in SMs, and you are the refuser in your marriage: What happened sexually on your anniversary? Nothing sexually happened. As for saying it first I was tempted believe me, but something held me back. And yes it would have made me happy had he actually said it. Look, just because I write romance doesn't mean I want everything I write. Are there elements of me in my writing...yes. But something that simple would be fine, just some acknowledgment that he was thinking about it. I'm not trying to be defensive or start an argument here, but some of the things you've said on my posts have been sticking in my head. You mentioned about thinking I didn't have low T and it was more me not wanting sex with H. Are you my dr? Were you there when she went over my blood work? No. I will post those results if it comes to it but I don't feel I need to justify that issue. I do want sex with my H. As I have stated before on other posts, when we have sex it's great and I do get my rocks off, usually multiple times. As for the friend who emailed me, would I have ever taken him up on his offer, truthfully ...probably not since I do love my H. It shocked me and not knowing what to do I came here. I joined this forum in the hopes of getting help, advice, etc not to feel like I have to justify every thing I post and explained every minuet detail. As for implementing what I write into RL, I'm working on doing that. I have verbally told him what I would love to see more of (the little gestures like hand holding, hugs, etc.) and I'm not sure how much has since in. For the sexual stuff I have become more verbal or in the case of Thursday before our ride/run my reactions to what he was doing gave it away and now he he knows that I like that. |
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Post by wewbwb on Jun 11, 2017 11:51:38 GMT -5
tiffanycIm sorry if you feel the need to justify any decisions you make. It is not for me or anyone else to tell you how to live. We are here to listen and support. Nothing more. Sometimes we think we need to "solve" something. Sometimes we mistake a need to be heard as a need for advice. If so, I'm sorry .
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Post by merrygoround on Jun 11, 2017 11:56:26 GMT -5
I've read your posts Tiffany. I'm afraid it did come off a little passive aggressive, resentful at time, that you were the refuser as well. But that's ok! I'm sure we've all felt that way at times or even displayed that behaviour.
What I would say is this - and i am in agreement with other posts on this thread - that you are both able and willing to have sex, that at present you seem to speak different love languages (you've been together a long time - look, sometimes people take each other for granted and the romance needs a little work sometimes, a little nudge). I really think it's an issue of communication. If you and your H can get to a place where you are willing to discuss that and move perhaps into therapy, then I think you could be someone here who actually achieves a positive outcome.
If you don't, you don't. We've mostly all been there and get to a point of acceptance on what our next options are.
But I do wish you all the best.
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Post by tiffanyc on Jun 11, 2017 11:56:30 GMT -5
tiffanycIm sorry if you feel the need to justify any decisions you make. It is not for me or anyone else to tell you how to live. We are here to listen and support. Nothing more. Sometimes we think we need to "solve" something. Sometimes we mistake a need to be heard as a need for advice. If so, I'm sorry . 😊 I know. We're all human and sometimes when we find people in same or similar situations we tend to be like, "oh you need to do this" I've been guilty of it too as has everyone at some point in sure. What bothered me was the saying my T-levels aren't the cause. True it may not be the WHOLE cause of me refusing sex but it is a bit part and for the record I don't refuse ALL the time. I'm working on trying to be more verbal when I am felt randy. That's just a weird role for me to ask for it when before this issue I never had to I was down for it. Just feeling frustrated today about this whole situation. 😔 I don't mean to rant or piss anyone off. Just had to get the about quote off my chest is all. |
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Post by tiffanyc on Jun 11, 2017 11:59:33 GMT -5
I've read your posts Tiffany. I'm afraid it did come off a little passive aggressive, resentful at time, that you were the refuser as well. But that's ok! I'm sure we've all felt that way at times or even displayed that behaviour. What I would say is this - and i am in agreement with other posts on this thread - that you are both able and willing to have sex, that at present you seem to speak different love languages (you've been together a long time - look, sometimes people take each other for granted and the romance needs a little work sometimes, a little nudge). I really think it's an issue of communication. If you and your H can get to a place where you are willing to discuss that and move perhaps into therapy, then I think you could be someone here who actually achieves a positive outcome. If you don't, you don't. We've mostly all been there and get to a point of acceptance on what our next options are. But I do wish you all the best. Thanks. I have mentioned therapy for us and he's not comfortable doing it and I don't blame him. Hell, I'd be happy if he and I could have some alone time. Me. Him. That's it and just talk! For both of us to put it out there. Of course I'm picturing us laying in bed just cuddling or lightly touching as me talk. Not sexually touching, but having that physical connection as we talk. |
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Post by twotimesone on Jun 11, 2017 12:02:11 GMT -5
I do agree with greatcoastal here. Husbands are not mindreaders. If you hate them they will know probably sense it but often you don't know why. If you really want him to do something for your anniversary, you should ask. Not that romantic, but at least you get what you want.
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Post by tiffanyc on Jun 11, 2017 12:04:51 GMT -5
I do agree with greatcoastal here. Husbands are not mindreaders. If you hate them they will know probably sense it but often you don't know why. If you really want him to do something for your anniversary, you should ask. Not that romantic, but at least you get what you want. Yes, I took for granted that in the past he's always, or almost always is the one to do or suggest something. Since joining here I have seen or received good ideas and I'm working on how to apply them my way. Next year ILL come up with something. Hopefully by next anniversary things will be improved. |
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Post by twotimesone on Jun 11, 2017 12:16:29 GMT -5
I do agree with greatcoastal here. Husbands are not mindreaders. If you hate them they will know probably sense it but often you don't know why. If you really want him to do something for your anniversary, you should ask. Not that romantic, but at least you get what you want. Yes, I took for granted that in the past he's always, or almost always is the one to do or suggest something. Since joining here I have seen or received good ideas and I'm working on how to apply them my way. Next year ILL come up with something. Hopefully by next anniversary things will be improved. I always asked my wife to go out and have someone to babysit the kids but my wife's complains "but I want to take the kids out otherwise they will leave and won't see them grow up." and I will be the first person to know that she has a period and other BS. One day I just stop asking because I will know the answer. |
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Post by northstarmom on Jun 11, 2017 12:25:17 GMT -5
I do not know whether you have low t. That is something your doctor would know. From what you've said here, it seems that you have a very healthy libido, but you are angry and resentful at your husband for not being supportive of your endeavors, for not being romantic, for criticizing you and for making crude sexual advances. From your posts, it seems that your anger and resentfulness at your husband is why you don't want to have sex with him.
You seem very out of touch with your own feelings. Romance novels are basically women's porn. They are such turn-ons that some sex therapists suggest that low libido women read romance novels. Someone who is spending their time writing steamy sex scenes does have a high libido. Obviously, you like sex and spend a lot of time thinking about it. Unfortunately, your husband is not giving you the type of sex you want nor is he giving you the type of emotional support that makes you feel loved and in a sexy mood.
You are angry and resentful at him and stuff your feelings. So, because you're angry that he didn't previously show interest in your book, you don't even bother to tell him you published it. Then, you become angry and resultful that he hasn't responded to something you're proud about. You blame him for not showing interest in your book, but you are no longer talking to him about the book.
Meanwhile, he seems to do similar things to you. He makes snide comments to you, ogles other women and is passive aggressive about things like your anniversary. Maybe he does these things because he's angry about being sexually rejected. But, instead of talking in a courteous way with you about the sex situation, he takes out his feelings in a way that drives you further away from him.
The bottom line is that both of you seem to be angry and hurt about each other, and to be taking out that anger in unproductive ways that just fuels each of your anger and hurt.
You can choose to continue this way, and it's very likely you'll be divorced within 5 years. Or if you wish to make a solid attempt to improve your marriage, you could ask your husband to go into marital counseling with you. If he agrees, and you both go in and are honest and work in the therapy (which means doing any homework the therapist assigns, and being open with the therapist and each other), then your marriage is likely to change for the better as each of you becomes better at expressing your needs and responding to each other. If you are willing to go into marital therapy, but he isn't, your marriage will probably continue to be unhappy. You can't change a marriage all by yourself. However, if he refuses to go into marital therapy, then it could help you to go into individual therapy. Such therapy would give you more information about your own feelings and needs. You also could learn productive ways of expressing your needs. Whether or not you remain married, those tools could help you in your relationships. Having such self knowledge would lower your chances of going from an unsatisfactory marriage to another unsatisfactory relationship.
Note to men in sexless marriages: Tiffany is saying a lot about the whys in her marriage Maybe there is information in her posts that also applies to your marriage. One thing that stands out: Just because a refuser is reluctant to have sex with their spouse doesn't mean they dislike sex.
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